Harvard Eliquid Study Today

[beckdg]

To avoid conclusions being drawn from lack of context, expand on what you mean here please. I see this could have been said with intended sarcasm..
And for the record, the vendor that I get the majority of my juice from - MT Baker - claims there is no diacetyl used in their products. So those vendors do exist.

To be fair they've also claimed they no longer use flavor west flavoring.

Tapatyped

 

[YoursTruli]

The good Dr. F never conducted studies on the harm diketones did. He just noted he found them present
in the juice he tested. He was testing juice to find out what was in it not,what was harming anything.

It was powdered diacetyl. I provided my link. Yours?
Yours? - Google Search
Lots of liquid flavorings in Kool-Aid you know.
Regards
mike
edit:
Emission of diacetyl (2,3 butanedione) from natural butter, microwave popcorn butter flavor powder, paste, and liquid products.
Emission of diacetyl (2,3 butanedione) from natural butter, microwave popcorn butter flavor powder, paste, and liquid products. - PubMed - NCBI
Edit: However, simulated handling of powder flavorings showed that a substantial amount of the airborne dust generated was of respirable size and could thus pose its own respiratory hazard.
Diacetyl emissions and airborne dust from butter flavorings used in microwave popcorn production. - PubMed - NCBI
please note,bolding not mine. ...?

 

[beckdg]

I understand and have no issue with what works for you..but nothing you have said changes the fact that we do not fully understand the link that has been made and associated with these workers..and what that means for us vapers. Now if your rebuttal works for you and is enough to cause you to feel vaping diketones is safe then by all means it's your lungs..your choice. I hope that choice remains for each vaper to make on their own. But until more studies are conducted and we have a better understanding about diketones i will not be vaping them.

I was nearly bed ridden due to lack of respiratory function when I started vaping just over 2 yrs ago.

Now...

With no nevermind to anything but oils in my flavoring...

My lungs function GREAT.

A remarkable recovery story from a diacetyl vaper.

We should be collecting these stories from suicide bunny and five pawns lovers.

Tapatyped

 

[skoony]

Um... This "mush" is YOUR source that YOU keep citing to support YOUR theory....

Of course I do. They are verifiable.
And one more time I am not making this stuff out of whole cloth. The only form of diacetyl of the three
that has been fingered as the source of major concern in any literature I can find is the powdered form.
If anyone has a authoritative source stating otherwise please share it with me.
My so called theory is based upon the sources I can cite not,what I imagine.

Regards
Mike

 

[Douggro]

To be fair they've also claimed they no longer use flavor west flavoring.

Context please?

 

[sparkky1]

To be fair they've also claimed they no longer use flavor west flavoring.

Tapatyped

Flavor west has brought a lot of problems to several ejuice manufactures, most all have stopped using them .............

 

[YoursTruli]

Of course I do. They are verifiable.
And one more time I am not making this stuff out of whole cloth. The only form of diacetyl of the three
that has been fingered as the source of major concern in any literature I can find is the powdered form.
If anyone has a authoritative source stating otherwise please share it with me.
My so called theory is based upon the sources I can cite not,what I imagine.

Regards
Mike

Then you can't possibly be reading your own cited source because it contradicts " The only form of diacetyl of the three that has been fingered as the source of major concern in any literature I can find is the powdered form." and it clearly states otherwise

 

[englishmick]

I am not saying I am 100% correct but,from what I have read the powdered form of diacetyl
has been the only one fingered out of the three forms as being the suspected causative form.

Regards
mike

I know this was a single case but I'm not sure how powdered diacetyl could be implicated in the case of the guy who ate excessive amounts of microwave popcorn at home. Surely that would have been vapor.

One of the linked articles from this thread that I just read mentioned that diacetyl had a strong tendency to enter the vapor stage, either from liquid or powder, especially when exposed to heat.

I don't see any firm information regarding what form should give us concern, or whether diacetyl is even the culprit at all in human cases of lung damage.

Even the article about the rat and in-vitro experiments where diacetyl produced lung damage similar to the early stages of BO unfortunately didn't mention what form of diacetyl was used, or in what quantities.

Edited: per Mazinny, the rat studies did use vapor. Guess I missed that, it was a long article.

 

[crxess]

It's become too personal and emotionally charged.

Not for me..........It is more for entertainment.

Kind of like riding a Merry-go-round, when I tire of it I can step off.

I DIY for a reason

 

[beckdg]

Context please?

Oof

I was hoping this wouldn't happen.

But some time ago there was quite the hubbub about it in the DIY section.

Quite a few members realized that most of MB's flavors were single flavor Flavor West mixes.

You know... those guys are always trying to clone something... errr... everything...

Of course there was some goings back and forth...

Are not...
Are too...
Repeat...

Then Mt baker came out and said they changed their recipes and no longer use Flavor West.

Though, they still carry the same lineup.

Several others including myself have... Long after the debacle compared and found exact matching FW flavors.

For my favorite MB flavors, I still just buy a single bottle of flavor west, pour to 6 or 10% and call it a day.

These are all EXACT MATCHES to known MB flavors... even the names except strawberry lemonade is MB's famed freckled lemonade.

Mix the cinnamon roll 50/50 with the caramel candy to get MB's sticky bun.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

Flavor west has brought a lot of problems to several ejuice manufactures, most all have stopped using them .............

Agreed

And 1 in particular has Claimed to have stopped using them.

Tapatyped

 

[Mazinny]

I know this was a single case but I'm not sure how powdered diacetyl could be implicated in the case of the guy who ate excessive amounts of microwave popcorn at home. Surely that would have been vapor.

One of the linked articles from this thread that I just read mentioned that diacetyl had a strong tendency to enter the vapor stage, either from liquid or powder, especially when exposed to heat.

I don't see any firm information regarding what form should give us concern, or whether diacetyl is even the culprit at all in human cases of lung damage.

Even the article about the rat and in-vitro experiments where diacetyl produced lung damage similar to the early stages of BO unfortunately didn't mention what form of diacetyl was used, or in what quantities.

Edited: per Mazinny, the rat studies did use vapor. Guess I missed that, it was a long article.

read chapter 4 :http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docket/archive/pdfs/NIOSH-245/0245-081211-draftdocument.pdf

In rats, acute exposures to diacetyl or diacetyl-containing butter flavoring vapors cause necrosis
in the epithelial lining of nasal and pulmonary airways. Rats inhaling vapors of butter flavoring
that contained diacetyl developed multifocal necrotizing bronchitis one day after a 6-hour
exposure....

 

[skoony]

Then you can't possibly be reading your own cited source because it contradicts " The only form of diacetyl of the three that has been fingered as the source of major concern in any literature I can find is the powdered form." and it clearly states otherwise

It does? Where? The studies do mention there were three forms of diacetyl used,however there is no mention of
what form was used,how often any given form was used opposed to another nor if it made a difference at all.
You claim something states otherwise. What is this otherwise? Where does it say liquid,paste or even powder
is the suspected causative agent in any government literature. It isn't there but a side note indicating that
the powdered form was a additional hazard in and of itself.
I am now completely unaware of the contradictions I am being accused off. Where are my contradictions?
Point them out please or cite authoritative sources that will do so.
Again I am not saying I am right 100% down the line,however no one can cite a source that contradicts
what i am saying. So as of this time time I am going with what the published literature indicates.
Powdered diacetyl.

Regards and night,night
Mike

 

[skoony]

read chapter 4 :http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docket/archive/pdfs/NIOSH-245/0245-081211-draftdocument.pdf

In rats, acute exposures to diacetyl or diacetyl-containing butter flavoring vapors cause necrosis
in the epithelial lining of nasal and pulmonary airways. Rats inhaling vapors of butter flavoring
that contained diacetyl developed multifocal necrotizing bronchitis one day after a 6-hour
exposure....

So we are to assume as little as 6 hours exposure means sudden irreversible harm.
where are the dead vapers?
Regards
mike

 

[crxess]

I know this was a single case but I'm not sure how powdered diacetyl could be implicated in the case of the guy who ate excessive amounts of microwave popcorn at home. Surely that would have been vapor.

One of the linked articles from this thread that I just read mentioned that diacetyl had a strong tendency to enter the vapor stage, either from liquid or powder, especially when exposed to heat.

I don't see any firm information regarding what form should give us concern, or whether diacetyl is even the culprit at all in human cases of lung damage.

Even the article about the rat and in-vitro experiments where diacetyl produced lung damage similar to the early stages of BO unfortunately didn't mention what form of diacetyl was used, or in what quantities.

Edited: per Mazinny, the rat studies did use vapor. Guess I missed that, it was a long article.

No actual proof of any kind was presented in that case. Settlement was won on pressure of using Industrial Documentation to prove Risk of Lung Damage - CDC/etc.

His lawyers successfully argued that he was sickened by inhaling the vapors of the additive diacetyl, which gives the snack its irresistibly buttery taste.

His Back story is interesting:

Defense lawyers claimed Watson got sick from the chemicals used in his carpet-cleaning business, not his two bag-a-day habit.

I'd be interested in His daily chemical exposure.
http://www.pss-polymer.com/fileadmin/custom_documents/MSDS_Poly_methyl_methacrylate_.pdf

 

[Mazinny]

So we are to assume as little as 6 hours exposure means sudden irreversible harm.
where are the dead vapers?
Regards
mike

umm no ! we aren't rats and multifocal necrotizing bronchitis is not death The link was for a different reason, you know, your hobby horse, " powder vs. vapor " !

 

[sparkky1]

http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/content/105/2/433.full.pdf
Highlighted Article: Inhalation Dosimetry of Diacetyl and Butyric Acid, Two Components of Butter Flavoring Vapors

 

[Jman8]

You smoked cigarettes for how long ?
Have you heard of a nebulizer ?

What do these questions have to do with what I posted?

 

[Douggro]

Oof

I was hoping this wouldn't happen.

Sorry for drudging up an unpleasantness. As long as the debate wasn't "diacetyl-free, yes/no?" I can stand somewhat relieved.

 

[sparkky1]

What do these questions have to do with what I posted?

I thought wrong .............my bad ............. long day ..........