Harvard Eliquid Study Today

[CleoPhoenix]

This despite the fact that there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that neither diketones nor anything else in eliquids will be harmful at all

That's a finite statement. We aren't helping the cause by quickly claiming nothing in what we are vaping should be examined. Even water in extreme amounts can cause intoxication. Could it affect me in the amount that I drink everyday? Nope. But when a selected client had to complete a drug screen for me and chugged water for 2 hours before, it was good to know. I know people that tootle puff non-stop (that's me on some days). Why is wanting to be careful always stemmed from propaganda against vaping? I'm quick to spot bias and my mod is going nowhere.

 

[VNeil]

Try OSHA

And OSHA rules, when all is said and done, are written by gov't bureaucrats. And they write rules with varying levels of confidence in the science. In this case, it is my understanding that OSHA has refrained from writing specific regulations controlling diketones because they are not convinced the science is right. But regardless, there is a difference between science and policy making. And if you add a heavy dose of politics as you have now, I would suggest whatever those bureaucrats come up with starts deviating further and further from science and into the realm of politics.

 

[VNeil]

That's a finite statement. We aren't helping the cause by quickly claiming nothing in what we are vaping should be examined. Even water in extreme amounts can cause intoxication. Could it affect me in the amount that I drink everyday? Nope. But when a selected client had to complete a drug screen for me and chugged water for 2 hours before, it was good to know. I know people that tootle puff non-stop (that's me on some days). Why is wanting to be careful always stemmed from propaganda against vaping? I'm quick to spot bias and my mod is going nowhere.

Why are you getting on the bandwagon, misrepresenting what I say? You quote a statement of fact made by me and turn it around into "claiming nothing in what we are vaping should be examined". I did not remotely say that.

It is clear to me, based on the various objections raised here to what I've said, that people have a great deal of trouble accepting simple truths for what they are.

For the record, I am all for an ongoing fair scientific review of vaping. It needs to be done. But in the meantime, I stand by what I've said: the evidence to date is overwhelming that vaping is safe. And no one has challenged that on the basis of facts.

 

[CleoPhoenix]

Why are you getting on the bandwagon, misrepresenting what I say? You quote a statement of fact made by me and turn it around into "claiming nothing in what we are vaping should be examined". I did not remotely say that.

in what we are vaping

E-liquids

there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that neither diketones nor anything else in eLiquids will be harmful at all.

I'm sorry if I misrepresented what you stated.

 

[ReigntheGamer]

In summation....

 

[Jman8]

I can't even believe we are having this discussion. It is surreal.

I think if you were having same discussion on the ANTZ forum and presenting all the data you are, you'd have opposition there say, 'okay diketones in vaping are (for now) a non-issue. But let's look at the other ingredients.'

But here on a pro-vaping forum, it's a really really big deal with very very little to support the opposing argument's position.

 

[Douggro]

We aren't helping the cause by quickly claiming nothing in what we are vaping should be examined.

Why are you getting on the bandwagon, misrepresenting what I say? You quote a statement of fact made by me and turn it around into "claiming nothing in what we are vaping should be examined". I did not remotely say that.

Read, pause, think, post. I got CleoPhoenix's drift that what we're vaping does need to be be studied rather than operating on the assumption that it's all peachy-keen safe.

 

[Jman8]

Read, pause, think, post. I got CleoPhoenix's drift that what we're vaping does need to be be studied rather than operating on the assumption that it's all peachy-keen safe.

And who is saying stop studying it? If studying it to justify removal or to justify bias against eCigs, then I say stop studying it. But if studying it for actual scientific purposes, then please study it. Be mindful of your biases in your (scientific) conclusions.

But vapers, are you going to wait for the studies to be completed, or are you going to go with 'peachy-keen safe' (aka alright to use personally) until you hear otherwise?

 

[beckdg]

Read, pause, think, post. I got CleoPhoenix's drift that what we're vaping does need to be be studied rather than operating on the assumption that it's all peachy-keen safe.

Yep

WE'RE ALL saying JUST THAT.

Just some of us are proposing an intellectual push back against THE PROPAGANDA MACHINE.

WE ALL WANT the information available to make better choices.

NONE OF US WANT a biased source of information SHOVING US TOWARD DEADLIER CHOICES and/or REMOVING OUR SAFER ALTERNATIVES by way of legislation.

Doesn't matter if legislation makes it illegal or taxes it out of existence... once it's gone...

For example... the 3 shops in DC that claimed they'll be closing their doors for good because exorbitant taxation...

Tapatyped

 

[herb]

After blowing through pages and pages of acronyms, link switch a roos, "I know it all" posts, "No you don't" posts, finger pointing, and lawsuits...this post made the most sense to me. I want vaping to stay but I want to vape safely (or as safely as possible while we learn the facts).

Thank you , i agree it's solely on each individual to determine what they believe or what they don't believe .

An individuals health is just way too important to be left to uncertainties and " most likely'" type scenarios . Definitely smarter to keep an open mind and stay on top of what the future reveals about this topic.

To say anything is a certainty at this point based on what info is out there now is just being flat out irresponsible imo.

 

[CleoPhoenix]

Yep

WE'RE ALL saying JUST THAT.

Just some of us are proposing an intellectual push back against THE PROPAGANDA MACHINE.

WE ALL WANT the information available to make better choices.

NONE OF US WANT a biased source of information SHOVING US TOWARD DEADLIER CHOICES and/or REMOVING OUR SAFER ALTERNATIVES by way of legislation.

Doesn't matter if legislation makes it illegal or taxes it out of existence... once it's gone...

For example... the 3 shops in DC that claimed they'll be closing their doors for good because exorbitant taxation...

Tapatyped

^ All for here.^ I want the propaganda machine taken out (vapes being harder to obtain than a pack of newports is one of my fears) and the articles presenting the info almost always equal propaganda. Just saying the actual studies are often worth a look at (not all propaganda based) and the conclusion is often the same : Vapes beat Cigarettes. My two cents had a quarter thrown back. One 100% fact : cigarettes are bad. Vape on.

 

[ReigntheGamer]

Science it made cigarettes safer.

 

[WattWick]

One 100% fact : cigarettes are bad.

Don't be too certain about that... this is the internet after all.

Surely someone will come along and mix some 'ifs' with some 'buts', pour in some 'common sense', add a few pinches of 'basic logic', a tablespoon of 'clearly' and a dollop of 'as we all know' -- and prove that cigarettes are no worse than the air we breathe.

 

[Rossum]

Don't be too certain about that... this is the internet after all.

Surely someone will come along and mix some 'ifs' with some 'buts', pour in some 'common sense', add a few pinches of 'basic logic', a tablespoon of 'clearly' and a dollop of 'as we all know' -- and prove that cigarettes are no worse than the air we breathe.

... Or that diketones in amounts that with some liquids exceed that found in cigarette smoke are nothing to worry about and are perfectly "safe".

 

[VNeil]

... Or that diketones in amounts that with some liquids exceed that found in cigarette smoke are nothing to worry about and are perfectly "safe".

You just won't quit. Keep spreading the propaganda.

 

[VNeil]

Thank you , i agree it's solely on each individual to determine what they believe or what they don't believe .

An individuals health is just way too important to be left to uncertainties and " most likely'" type scenarios . Definitely smarter to keep an open mind and stay on top of what the future reveals about this topic.

To say anything is a certainty at this point based on what info is out there now is just being flat out irresponsible imo.

But that is not what you said previously. You did not talk about keeping an open mind, you said this:

"it's just a matter of time before serious health consequences reveal themselves ."

That is not "keeping an open mind", THAT is pure propaganda. And if you really mean what you just said here, and you are not just a propagandist that vapers here should ignore, you will retract that statement.

 

[crxess]

Try OSHA

And OSHA rules, when all is said and done, are written by gov't bureaucrats. And they write rules with varying levels of confidence in the science. In this case, it is my understanding that OSHA has refrained from writing specific regulations controlling diketones because they are not convinced the science is right. But regardless, there is a difference between science and policy making. And if you add a heavy dose of politics as you have now, I would suggest whatever those bureaucrats come up with starts deviating further and further from science and into the realm of politics.

Don't get me started.............................. To Late!
Quite possibly one of the sliest Profiteering Divisions of Government.

Set relative safety standards.
Set Hefty Fines
Rarely Monitor or verify conformity

Say a big company has:
Thousands of laborers
Dozens of locations
Warehousing/heavy moving equipment/conveyor lines etc.

Lets Go Low:
300 persons per shift - 2x / 12hr / 3day - closed Sunday so(excluding white collar)
1200 employed persons in location.
again - Low - Strategic location
10 Facilities x 1200 employees
12,000 laborers
Again Low Calculations - Average 10 OSHA Report-able injuries per location - ANNUAL

100 injuries of ANY significance, Fatality to minor Laceration or strain, requiring outside medical intervention. ANY

OSHA FINE
$50,000 SET FINE - $50,000 x 100 = $5,000,000 - 5 Million Dollars

$5 Million Dollars ANNUAL, From 1 Business in 1 year just in FINES, going who knows where.

Employer Has no recourse -Guilty or Not, Just Pay
Employee - sees No financial benefit - Out to a day or Crippled for life - not their problem.

Times how many companies across America?
How much more would be gained if at least Some of those funds went back to supporting the Work force?
How much do those Fines strip from possible Annual pay increases or Employee incentives, which motivate better/safer work.
___________________________________________________
2 years crippled(possibly temporary) and never once heard a word from OSHA

Just .............never mind

Back to our regularly Scheduled Squabble!

Diacetyl ........or maybe ALL Diketones.......or maybe ALL FLAVORS.....or

Give an inch, just because and they will SNATCH the Slack right out of our hands.

PROOF is TROOF

 

[herb]

But that is not what you said previously. You did not talk about keeping an open mind, you said this:

"it's just a matter of time before serious health consequences reveal themselves ."

That is not "keeping an open mind", THAT is pure propaganda. And if you really mean what you just said here, and you are not just a propagandist that vapers here should ignore, you will retract that statement.

If i did not have an open mind i would of said anybody who vapes diketone filled juices is a ..... and should have their head examined .

I didn't say that , i said my common sense tells me that "it's just a matter of time before serious health consequences reveal themselves ."

 

[crxess]

... Or that diketones in amounts that with some liquids exceed that found in cigarette smoke are nothing to worry about and are perfectly "safe".

How about this.

Following your logic of Absolutes - Very ANTZ like by the way, and I actually know and talk with a professional one quite often.(fellow employee and political activist)

Diketones Must Be completely Dangerous or PERFECTLY SAFE.

I Say ANTZ LOGIC because they use those exact same minute proof arguments. The least little doubt is Good enough for an all on fight to get what they want.

Air is a Necessity for life
Air is NOT perfectly Safe

Something May be Dangerous in proven Quantity, say Nicotine , but relatively(not Perfectly) safe in another(PROVEN) quantity.

This is why I keep asking:
Where is the Scientific Medical Data?


Watch out for the Bumble Bee in that Safe Air

 

[herb]

Don't be too certain about that... this is the internet after all.

Surely someone will come along and mix some 'ifs' with some 'buts', pour in some 'common sense', add a few pinches of 'basic logic', a tablespoon of 'clearly' and a dollop of 'as we all know' -- and prove that cigarettes are no worse than the air we breathe.

Actually there are a few people in here that said they do not think cigarettes are as bad as many make them sound which is just "mind boggling " to me lol.