HC instrumental in Glaxo Smith Kline development of New NRT

[Lilkurty]

Nicorette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Might as well just add N cicorette or some clever name to the above definition because that is where this is all headed. HC/Therapeutic Products Directorate are standing firm on their position that the e cig is a drug delivery device that has not been tested and proven to get market authorization. They are not classifying it as an inhalation device but dually classified as having a medical component and a Schedule F drug under F&D regulations. With that, cartridges or liquids with nicotine will not qualify for the Schedule F exemption. The court case of HC v Zen which they one will add further fuel to the fire that this is a medical device for smoking cessation.GSK will spend a ton of money on testing and this will be available by prescription only.

In three years basically all that has been done in this Forum is talk. A paltry 1600 signatures on the petition.

Gone will be any nicotine in Canada.


Technically, nicotine is not significantly addictive, as nicotine administered alone does not produce significant reinforcing properties.[55] However, after coadministration with an MAOI, such as those found in tobacco, nicotine produces significant behavioral sensitization, a measure of addiction potential. This is similar in effect to amphetamine.[35]

Nicotine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


What are we going to do Canada?

 

[blaufisch]

Quick ideas:

- stage protests
- educate the populace
- write to the media
- continue to write and speak with our elected representatives at every opportunity
- get 10x the number of signatures on that petition (at least)

most importantly:

vape on and assert our right to vape

 

[Lilkurty]

Quick ideas:

- stage protests
- educate the populace
- write to the media
- continue to write and speak with our elected representatives at every opportunity
- get 10x the number of signatures on that petition (at least)

most importantly:

vape on and assert our right to vape

If we do nothing we have ourselves to blame. HC, ANTSZ, BP, BT, Haters, Uneducated, Misinformed v Vapers. We lose by being complacent.
Look, e cigs will be a pharmaceutical unless we argue our point. Personally, I think this would best be done with lawyers but in any event. E cigs and vaping are alternatives to smoking that will be gone as we know them. There will be no vaping with nicotine and e cigs will be behind the counter at the pharmacy. We need to act now before it's too late, before the US and HC make announcements about what they "deem".

 

[BobAgainstApples]

When will they start regulating coffee cups? That's a drug delivery device too. I don't see any justification for HC to have any more say in our hobby than they do in the coffee business.

If they want to regulate it, the onus should be on them to prove it is dangerous to our health. The dangers that may exist due to poor labelling, packaging etc should be covered by consumer protection laws, as they have for any consumer product. I'm annoyed by those who think we should have to give them millions of dollars to prove safety as this plays into the hands of BT and BP, their true masters.

Smoking has proven to be a public health hazard and that has been their justification to tax many smokers into poverty, as well as promote a social war against them. We don't smoke. How can they possibly justify extracting absurd taxes from vapers as they have never proven any health risk? The "drain on the health-care system" does not exist for vapers. What does exist is the potential for years more pension payouts, lost tax revenue and a disruption of the gravy train of approval money from their monopoly capitalist masters.

 

[blaufisch]

I agree. Unless HC can back it up with some real studies with conclusive evidence, they are going to have a hard road to get the lawmakers to ban ecigs outright since you can use it with 0 nic juice. (if i can have two stores in my neighbourhood selling pipes and bongs and other drug paraphernalia, i can say that ecig hardware is here to stay)

Though I personally lack the funds to secure a lawyer to sue them if they try anything awful, a foundation could be set up to take them to the cleaners in such an eventuality. I would chip in for that.

I still stand by my earlier post however. The recent victory over the idiotic bill C-30 proves that vocal opposition of the public can and will be listened to.

 

[blaufisch]

One more thing - get the media to say the message straight. Every time there is a story on ecigs in any Canadian media outlet, we should all be responding in their forums and most importantly writing in errors and omissions every time they make foolish misleading statements that just aren't true.

 

[Battlelance]

In three years basically all that has been done in this Forum is talk. A paltry 1600 signatures on the petition.

Online petitions are useless as the House will not accept them.

Public Petitions - Current Guidelines for Petitions

 

[Centurion]

Resist! and Do Not comply. What's more make a big fuss about it. Convince others. And if it comes to it, declare vaping the national pastime of Canada and plant your own flag.

 

[Katmandu]

This is from the homepage of the Electronic Cigarette Trade Association of Canada:

Canada's Electronic Cigarette Industry – like so many others around the world – has operated under a "Wild West" principle for far too long. This is largely because of regulatory uncertainty as policy-makers try to work out what type of products ecigs are. Canadians deserve better. Along with most electronic cigarette product vendors and consumers in Canada, we recognize the need for appropriate regulation of the Industry. We believe it is time to put an end to the myths, rumours and regulatory uncertainty surrounding these products & their safety.

The Electronic Cigarette Trade Association (ECTA) of Canada has been formed by a group of electronic cigarette vendors for the initial purpose of gathering and analyzing the existing Canadian laws and regulations governing electronic cigarette usage and trade. The relevant legal information and links will be posted here, thus creating a single point of reference for the Canadian Electronic Cigarette Industry. In conjunction with regular product testing and ongoing audits, ECTA will use this information to build a clear and objective record of compliance.

All of the information and data gathered (laws, regulations, safety standards, lab results, audit results, etc.) will in due course be formulated into a proposal to persuade and prove to our governing bodies that our Industry can be regulated as a safe and purposeful entity in the Canadian Market.

The end result will be 1) appropriate regulation of the industry; 2) a clear and consistent method for achieving compliance; 3) peace of mind & freedom of choice for consumers. Everyone wins!

The website is here: Electronic Cigarette Trade Association (ECTA) of Canada

It is not as if nothing is being done - it is - we just don't always see it out front and center.

 

[Esharp]

I think Kat is right. Things are being done. HC probably isn't just watching to see what the FDA dose, but they are probably watching Europe as well. There is research going on all the world as well, and it seems to be in favor of e-cigs over tobacco. I just came across another article regarding a study on e-cigs.

Anti Smoking | Electronic Cigarette

The way I see it, both HC and the FDA have a problem. There is no smoking gun regarding health issues and e-cigs. That's not to say there won't be health issues for e-smokers 20 yrs. down the road. But, we know if we smoke, there will be health issues down the road. I think things are going to change and things may become more restrictive as well as more expensive (taxes).

At the end of the day, I believe the collective governments of North America are going to take the money (taxes) and run to the banks. The Anti's will campaign a new war on vapers, and have us rounded up with our tobacco counterparts and apply all the cigarette bylaws to include vapers, or at least they will try. And remember if there is a need for a black market, then there will be one.

 

[BobAgainstApples]

Don't believe that an industry trade association has vapers interest at heart. Understand the fundamental interests at play here. They are usually formed by the largest players in the industry and do their best to create barriers to the market they will be able to meet but few start-ups will.

They will sow fear towards any vendors who choose to ignore their self-proclaimed interest in vaper safety, or refuse to pay the dues to join their club. They will lobby the government to transform these "standards" to law. This is how capitalism inevitably plays out, this is why our "public health" agency is so beholding to BP, so much so that the only capital that can compete is BT, and why they appear to be our ally in this battle, but even they, like ECTA have their interests at heart.

I contend the government due to tax revenue, and pension obligations have interests in direct conflict with vapers and certainly cannot be trusted. ECTA and BT also have interests in direct conflict to those of vapers (healthy competition in the marketplace).

As vapers, we need to engage with CASAA, as they are a consumer advocacy group, but also hold their feet to the fire and be sure they are truly serving our interests -- I think someone did give that "Art of War" reference in another thread, this is war and the enemy has the resources to corrupt even the best intentioned group.

 

[blaufisch]

Oh yeah, no law is going to stop me vaping that's for sure

 

[blaufisch]

I think Kat is right. Things are being done. HC probably isn't just watching to see what the FDA dose, but they are probably watching Europe as well. There is research going on all the world as well, and it seems to be in favor of e-cigs over tobacco. I just came across another article regarding a study on e-cigs.

Anti Smoking | Electronic Cigarette

The way I see it, both HC and the FDA have a problem. There is no smoking gun regarding health issues and e-cigs. That's not to say there won't be health issues for e-smokers 20 yrs. down the road. But, we know if we smoke, there will be health issues down the road. I think things are going to change and things may become more restrictive as well as more expensive (taxes).

At the end of the day, I believe the collective governments of North America are going to take the money (taxes) and run to the banks. The Anti's will campaign a new war on vapers, and have us rounded up with our tobacco counterparts and apply all the cigarette bylaws to include vapers, or at least they will try. And remember if there is a need for a black market, then there will be one.

Tax it sure. But allow us to buy our nic liquid. and yes FDA and HC have a problem: us.

 

[Katmandu]

Every business person I know has their own best interest at heart no matter how much they protest that they are doing it to help others. You are no different as I see you are a vendor. But at least ECTA are working together to find a way. And just what sort of fear are they instilling in you?

The CASAA, while they do very good work in the States, after having been contacted by more than a few Canadians, cannot help us. This avenue has been tried already. We would have to start our own CASAA and believe me it has been tried and nothing happened.

I find that most Canadians are too apathetic to do much of anything except talk about what to do, and I include myself in that. At least ECTA is actually doing something.

Our government enjoys tobacco tax - I totally agree with you there. Legislation WILL come for e-cigs, we just aren't going to like it because it will mean that we will have to pay more in a sin tax just like cigarettes.

 

[blaufisch]

Every business person I know has their own best interest at heart no matter how much they protest that they are doing it to help others. You are no different as I see you are a vendor. But at least ECTA are working together to find a way. And just what sort of fear are they instilling in you?

The CASAA, while they do very good work in the States, after having been contacted by more than a few Canadians, cannot help us. This avenue has been tried already. We would have to start our own CASAA and believe me it has been tried and nothing happened.

I find that most Canadians are too apathetic to do much of anything except talk about what to do, and I include myself in that. At least ECTA is actually doing something.

Our government enjoys tobacco tax - I totally agree with you there. Legislation WILL come for e-cigs, we just aren't going to like it because it will mean that we will have to pay more in a sin tax just like cigarettes.

I disagree, Canadians do have some spine, the death of C-30 proved that. We just need to put energy into what we believe in.

 

[Lilkurty]

I think Kat is right. Things are being done. HC probably isn't just watching to see what the FDA dose, but they are probably watching Europe as well. There is research going on all the world as well, and it seems to be in favor of e-cigs over tobacco. I just came across another article regarding a study on e-cigs.

Anti Smoking | Electronic Cigarette

The way I see it, both HC and the FDA have a problem. There is no smoking gun regarding health issues and cigs.

Yes, I agree they do have a big problem and this was my question to the TPD: How can you have a product regulated as a tobacco product in the USA and a medical product in Canada? The other thing to consider is that this is a relatively simple device. While BP spends millions in testing etc, the free market will have improved upon the design and functionality.

 

[chinamon]

ugh. i am so sick of our nanny state laws.

 

[Lilkurty]

How many Canadians do we have on this Forum?

 

[Kagey K]

Sadly the way I see this going is that they are going to get approval while including chemicals that HC has already approved in other cessation devices, Hydrochloric acid ect ect. So they are even more likely to include more chemicals and ingredients then we have now, but will also have the benefit of being able to bankroll the "proof" that HC desperately says they want.

I just find it hard that they could say certain things "Equivalent to antifreeze" and then go and approve one worse. Our health is not as important as the bottom line apparently, and this entire thing is a farce.

As soon as it can be moentized it will be mass marketed anywhere, with no regard of past statements. The big money corps control the gov't not the people.

 

[Hello World]

In three years basically all that has been done in this Forum is talk. A paltry 1600 signatures on the petition.

Gone will be any nicotine in Canada.

Personally, I don't associate HC or the Gov't as any major factor that has much of any bearing to nicotine access, regardless what policies they want to make. My life is not in the least affected by this particular issue, as I don't rely on Gov't permissions to vaporate.

Anyone I come in contact with who would like to switch to e-cigs ... no problem, I get them started, and Gov't policies are not part of the picture, neither here nor there.

E-cigs are sold everywhere now and getting very popular in Canada by the minute, just without nic at this point. But that will change in due time as more people are becoming aware that nicotine is available and HC/CC is just a little obstacle at best to get around.

E-cig technology can no longer be made to go away, it's here to stay, you can't stamp it out. This snowball cannot be stopped, and it's very difficult to tell in what ways and forms it will become acceptable one day ... but it will. I believe consumer demand will be the driving force rather than advocacy groups, lawyers or MPs.

Tellng your friends about e-cigs is one of the best ways to fight back.