HCigar VT200

[Shekinahsgroom]

Could be because Fullymax have not been around as long as Turnigy or Zippy. I personally have never heard of Fullymax up until this thread. Do you know anything about Lipos or are you just making an educated guess.

Or maybe it's because places like HobbyKing choose to sell CHEAP brands?

I'd never heard of Fullymax either until Evolv disclosed the pack they'd used.

They also disclosed why they went with Fullymax; their determination was based on quality and performance....not price.

Maybe I wasn't clear before about how I've been in the RC hobby for years. If it took a battery I ran lipo and only lipo. Never once did I have a battery go up in flames. Unless you're gonna stick a knife through it, there's not much to worry about. The board monitors cells so again, not much to worry about with cell failure.

Zippy and Turnigy are well known to produce inexpensive and sometimes low-quality packs, it comes down to their manufacturing and QC checks. Zippy is probably one of the single worst brands and the price of them shows. Turnigy is "iffy" and their QC is also questionable.

No pack is gonna be perfect but the better the QC, the greater your chances of getting a high-quality pack.

The very same could be said when comparing a dna to a Chinese-made controller....and we already know what that comparison proves, hence why we're all here. We want quality, not junk.

If you've had good experiences with those brands in your RC stuff, that's great man...glad to hear nothing has burned up in flames. But the question that everybody should be asking themselves is this...

"Do I want a cheap-azz pack in this mod, or do I want a high-quality pack?"

And to touch on the on-board balancer and monitoring system, most peeps in the DNA200 coop thread wanted Evolv to add-on a balancer plug so that user's could connect their own high-quality balancer....instead of using the on-board one.

Peeps wanna be extra-safe when using this device cuz we all know the inherent dangers involved.

This is not a 'normal' mod; the pack that is used and the balancer that's used to charge it and monitor it are CRUCIAL and could be the difference between vape-heaven or explosion-hell.

No amount of safety is too much, cuz if any mod on the market has the potential of a serious disaster....it would be the ones using in-series packs.

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

I will likely get one, and am not that interested in the warranty. I know where to get the chip replaced if needed, and the rest is just an enclosure, 510, battery and some wire. Even at the 100moq pricing for the chip, this is a good deal even if the pack is an issue. I am however waiting to see the "inside" prior to ordering.

I agree.

The pack is everything IMO.

MOQ is 50 BTW....$111 (Or were you talking about the board itself? Then yea, good deal. )

51 it drops to $107

101 it drops to $105

It would be difficult to hit 101...but 51 is feasible.

 

[Millah]

Price-fixing is illegal in the USA, violation of the Sherman Act....and China is very well aware of it.

A vendor could lose their license to do business if they're caught.

Its not exactly price-fixing. Manufacturers are still able to have some degree of control over the advertised prices of their products. Obviously they set an MSRP. But a reseller usually has to sign an agreement with the manufacturer, and those agreements typically define a Minimum Advertised Price. They can still sell products below these prices, they just can't ADVERTISE it. If you've ever seen an online store hide the price, this is why. The manufacturer can also set a higher wholesale price, making it more difficult for a retailer to offer steep discounts.

Its not the same as price-fixing, and there are many well-known examples of this from many high-profile products that try to maintain price integrity.

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

Its not exactly price-fixing. Manufacturers are still able to have some degree of control over the advertised prices of their products. Obviously they set an MSRP. But a reseller usually has to sign an agreement with the manufacturer, and those agreements typically define a Minimum Advertised Price. They can still sell products below these prices, they just can't ADVERTISE it. If you've ever seen an online store hide the price, this is why. The manufacturer can also set a higher wholesale price, making it more difficult for a retailer to offer steep discounts.

Its not the same as price-fixing, and there are many well-known examples of this from many high-profile products that try to maintain price integrity.

Hcigar's policy is closer to a fixed-price than a MAP agreement, because vendors cannot sell below their set price...in this case $169. Their warranty spreadsheet explains their terms in detail.

If any vendor is caught selling it below that price, they'll refuse the warranty and cut off supply to that vendor. That includes "coupon codes"....not allowed.

Advertising has no merit....in this case and why Gearbest and other vendors were not penalized for their pre-order ads.

 

[Millah]

Hmm. Well I'd like to see Hcigar try to enforce that policy. That does seem to walk a very fine line in terms of legality. Consumers are not bound by any reseller agreements, so to punish the consumer for a reseller violating any agreement with Hcigar seems shady at best.

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

MAP agreements are like what you see on sites like Newegg (or elsewhere) where they cannot advertise the discounted price. Instead you have to add the item to your shopping cart and proceed to check out before you can see the discounted price.

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

Hmm. Well I'd like to see Hcigar try to enforce that policy. That does seem to walk a very fine line in terms of legality. Consumers are not bound by any reseller agreements, so to punish the consumer for a reseller violating any agreement with Hcigar seems shady at best.

Exactly, price-fixing is illegal here.

Sherman Antitrust Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And they're very well aware of it.

This is why I was saying that this 'policy' of theirs is in their best interest but it's gonna come back and bite them in the !

Cuz like you said, they're essentially punishing the end-user by denying the warranty.

It's a lose-lose situation for a USA vendor.

If they violate the Sherman Act they could lose their license to do business or if the violate the fixed price...they lose their customer's trust and Hcigar's future business.

So why would any USA vendor ever want to do business with Hcigar?

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

Hcigar is essentially wiping out USA sales and they're protecting their own (Chinese sites).

Price-fixing is not illegal in China.

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

SO....how does one circumvent Hcigar...in the USA?

Locate a high-quality pack replacement and run a coop.

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

Fuli Battery Co., Ltd. of Shenzhen City

Available cell pack selection:

产品中心 | Fuli Battery Co., Ltd. of Shenzhen City


But without dimensions of the pack, does little good.

Even with the dimensions though, locating a vendor that carries the correct size pack isn't gonna be easy.

>>>>

 

[Daisychainvaper]

152 for now. Let's see what the others do. Hcigar VT 200W TC Device - $152.42

 

[cimon]

Hyperion have ''funky sizes'' too.
Hyperion shop

MaxAmps dont have to much of sizes were interested with but.. dont forget that 2S is allowed now (theres bit more).
Award Winning MaxAmps RC LiPo Batteries Lifetime Warranty

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

Generally speaking, you wanna look for a battery manufacturer, not an assembler.

Brands like Zippy and Turnigy are not manufacturers, they assemble the packs...and this is where QC is critical.

Fullymax is actually the cell manufacturer and they assemble their own packs.

The pack that's being made for the VT200 is being made by the manufacturer....but Hcigar isn't disclosing who they're using right now.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Right, you'd definitely want the warranty.



That's the other part of the equation, getting under $169 means that you've gotta have access to a high-quality replacement pack.

And I'm just gonna say for any peeps that are not fully aware of what the VT200 actually is.

It has a 3S1P battery pack inside, not your normal everyday cell. These kinds of packs are made for RC applications and can be extremely dangerous ...IF....you don't know how to use them properly OR if you buy a cheap-azz pack.

RC guys can buy junk packs, if they choose, cuz their drone isn't gonna be up in their face when it explodes into a huge ball of fire....

But if you buy a junk replacement pack, your mod is gonna be in your hand and up in your face.

This is NOT a 'normal' mod.

What is the Hcigar warranty and what is their track record for standing behind it? You place a lot of value on the warranty and post sale "access to a high-quality replacement pack." What is the written warranty policy, how does a consumer make a warranty claim and for how many years will a "high-quality replacement pack" service be available from Hcigar, and at what cost.

Paying MSRP or more means the consumer gets corresponding value in return. Tell us exactly what that is. Of course we all want to do "moral" business with Hcigar and its vendors so I'm sure they will likewise do the "moral" thing with a strongly worded no exclusion warranty that lasts a reasonable period of time and they will provide a reasonable cost replacement service on the pack for at least several years, right?

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

152 for now. Let's see what the others do. Hcigar VT 200W TC Device - $152.42

USA seller...

VT DNA 200 200W TC Box Mod by Hcigar PREORDER | Vape Street

Keep in mind, until any of these low-ball sellers have stock ready to move, the price could change if Hcigar sees the ad.

If they see it and they know that the seller has stock in their possession...you have no warranty. Hcigar will deny it and cut off the vendor.....leaving you screwed.

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

What is the Hcigar warranty and what is their track record for standing behind it? You place a lot of value on the warranty and post sale "access to a high-quality replacement pack." What is the written warranty policy, how does a consumer make a warranty claim and for how many years will a "high-quality replacement pack" service be available from Hcigar, and at what cost.

You would handle the warranty thru your vendor. They in turn contact Hcigar and get a replacement.

Hcigar's warranty is guaranteed for 1 year, so the vendor where you buy it would also have to issue you a 1 year warranty. If they don't, you're being short-changed and you should look for a vendor offering the full year.

Keep in mind, everybody "should" be selling it for the same price...or at least for $169. So if you selected vendor says only 6 months warranty, then you have no valid reason to accept that offer.

Costs?

Unknown...good questions to ask the vendor. May not be the same everywhere.

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

The benefit of the warranty isn't just the obvious ...via getting a dud and needing a replacement.

The unseen benefit of the warranty is having access to the custom-made cell packs, cuz without those you're essentially buying a disposable mod.

If you attempt to put something else in there, you take the chance of having a catastrophic failure of the cell. This is why I don't recommend putting a crap cell pack in there...cuz your hand and face ain't worth the risk!

 

[retird]

Looked high and low for warranty info on HCigar's web page. Why do they not plainly and easily give one access to their warranty info? Found this warranty for the VT40 (nothing found on the VT200) on their site after searching for a while:

HCigar VT40 Warranty Information
News / Company News 666
1.With the defect of product quality to be caused since the date of purchasing the VT40,one year free
warranty will be provided .(Basis on the warranty card information)

2.Main functions of VT40 to be broken within 7days,cannot work normally,can be replaced with a new
one (please keep the product packaging complete) ,free lifetime technical support services is available.

3.Please safekeeping the warranty card, it will no longer reissue; please show us the warranty card and
the invoice with requested repair.

4.Exceeding the warranty period, our company will charge the maintenance fee according to the related
regulations, replacement of parts will be charged at the cost price.

5.The following situation is out of warranty:
1)The damage caused by irresistible natural disasters (earthquake / fire / flood / lightning,etc.)
2)Users’ improper operation or improper storage(including:circuit and components to be burned with
exceeding the voltages; charging port and needles to be broken,or the obvious physical differences to
original item ; water, oil and other liquid into products lead to damage; oxidation or corrosion.ect.)
3)Transport damage;disassemble without company’s agreement.
4)Can pass the normal test.
5)Unable to provide our company’s warranty receipt and product warranty card;Valid certificate and repaired
proof that can’t conform or revise.

6.The final explanation rights of warranty card belongs to HCIGAR company.

When products need maintenance, please provide complete Warranty Card information:
User Name:
Detailed Address:
Contact Information:
Product Name:
Product Serial Number:
Purchased Date:
Distributor:
Distributor stamp:

Please feel free to contact us at anytime, we are happy to answer everything about HCigar
products! And you can get support or arrangement for repairing by e-mail.

 

[Mad Scientist]

You would handle the warranty thru your vendor. They in turn contact Hcigar and get a replacement.

Hcigar's warranty is guaranteed for 1 year, so the vendor where you buy it would also have to issue you a 1 year warranty. If they don't, you're being short-changed and you should look for a vendor offering the full year.

Keep in mind, everybody "should" be selling it for the same price...or at least for $169. So if you selected vendor says only 6 months warranty, then you have no valid reason to accept that offer.

Costs?

Unknown...good questions to ask the vendor. May not be the same everywhere.

I've been lucky enough to never need to cash in on a warranty card on a mod assembled by a Chinese based manufacturer but from what I've been reading, it's likely not worth the paper it's printed on. From reading the experiences of others, it seems clear that the vendors generally just point to the manufacturer and the manufacturer is not communicative. This is true at MSRP or not.

What the manufacturer gets from a RPM program where solid pre and post sale support is not required of every vendor eludes me. To put it plainly, Hcigar appears to be behaving irrationally. They might want to copy a top shelf brand pricing model but to do so they need to copy the corresponding service model. What they end up with is high volume vendors making lots of money (there's a shock, right lol) but no additional value to the consumer to enhance brand identity or loyalty and no additional profit to themselves. Just dumb.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Looked high and low for warranty info on HCigar's web page. Why do they not plainly and easily give one access to their warranty info? Found this warranty for the VT40 (nothing found on the VT200) on their site after searching for a while:

HCigar VT40 Warranty Information
News / Company News 666
1.With the defect of product quality to be caused since the date of purchasing the VT40,one year free
warranty will be provided .(Basis on the warranty card information)

2.Main functions of VT40 to be broken within 7days,cannot work normally,can be replaced with a new
one (please keep the product packaging complete) ,free lifetime technical support services is available.

3.Please safekeeping the warranty card, it will no longer reissue; please show us the warranty card and
the invoice with requested repair.

4.Exceeding the warranty period, our company will charge the maintenance fee according to the related
regulations, replacement of parts will be charged at the cost price.

5.The following situation is out of warranty:
1)The damage caused by irresistible natural disasters (earthquake / fire / flood / lightning,etc.)
2)Users’ improper operation or improper storage(including:circuit and components to be burned with
exceeding the voltages; charging port and needles to be broken,or the obvious physical differences to
original item ; water, oil and other liquid into products lead to damage; oxidation or corrosion.ect.)
3)Transport damage;disassemble without company’s agreement.
4)Can pass the normal test.
5)Unable to provide our company’s warranty receipt and product warranty card;Valid certificate and repaired
proof that can’t conform or revise.

6.The final explanation rights of warranty card belongs to HCIGAR company.

When products need maintenance, please provide complete Warranty Card information:
User Name:
Detailed Address:
Contact Information:
Product Name:
Product Serial Number:
Purchased Date:
Distributor:
Distributor stamp:

Please feel free to contact us at anytime, we are happy to answer everything about HCigar
products! And you can get support or arrangement for repairing by e-mail.

Retired, I think point # 6 says it all.