Health Canada's Reasoning for E Cig Ban

[KCatK]

Okay, so I don't want to start a debate on whether Health Canada is wrong or not to issue a ban (for e cig with nicotine), but I have been looking all over the place for their reasoning for health concerns regarding e cigs and I haven't been able to find much information.

All I can suss out from the Health Canada website on this topic regarding health issues:

... Nicotine is a highly addictive and toxic substance, and the inhalation of propylene glycol is a known irritant. ...

... electronic smoking products may pose risks such as nicotine poisoning and addiction ...

Not much information regarding the risks aside from that, and these are the same risks that can be applied to real cigarettes.

Plus, the document hasn't been updated since 2009.

Does anyone have any updated information on any new risks Health Canada has found to justify digging their heels in on this?

 

[Cobber]

Nope ... HC wont justify their position or update any thing.

But if you have millions of dollars you can hire some lawyers and "donate" lots of money and maybe they will change their minds.

 

[tygertyger]

I can't find anything newer either. It seems they've been quite silent on the issue since March 27, 2009. Very frustrating.

 

[Bdbodger]

It is not so much that ecigs are banned as it is that they want the ejuice to be proven that it is safe . The problem is they are calling it a drug and as a drug it must be proven to be safe and carry a DIN ( Drug identity number ) number on the package . That requires a lot of money and red tape but they say it must be done and so all ejuice now being sold in Canada is non compliant and can be seized . Well you know what it takes to get any drug approved , years of tests then tests on animals finally human trials etc etc . It is all just red tape . They already know the effects of nicotine , PG , VG and food flavour they don't need to do it this way .

 

[KCatK]

It is not so much that ecigs are banned as it is that they want the ejuice to be proven that it is safe . The problem is they are calling it a drug and as a drug it must be proven to be safe and carry a DIN ( Drug identity number ) number on the package . That requires a lot of money and red tape but they say it must be done and so all Ejuice now being sold in Canada is non compliant and can be seized . Well you know what it takes to get any drug approved , years of tests then tests on animals finally human trials etc etc . It is all just red tape . They already know the effects of nicotine , PG , VG and food flavour they don't need to do it this way .

Very interesting and useful information. Thank you!

The point about the e juice to be proven safe raises another question, though. Can they not just piggy back off the US's FDA findings like they do for a plethora of other drugs?

 

[atom45]

Its mainly because nicotine is crazy dangerous. On drop of pure nicotine will easily kill any human. it can even soak through your skin and you can od that way too. Thats why I think its banned. Plus theres no way of regulating the amount in any nicotine juice. Ive gotten juice from a supplier that tasted just like chewing tobacco, it must have been a crazy high amount, like 60+mg in it. But other juice from the same supplier with the "same" content tasted totally different.

Personally I could care less about what HC says, theres plenty of vendors in Canada who still sell nic juice so Im not worried.

 

[Projectguy]

Nope ... HC wont justify their position or update any thing.

But if you have millions of dollars you can hire some lawyers and "donate" lots of money and maybe they will change their minds.

No CObber, we'll pass around the collection plate all become members of the Conservative Party, find a riding where we can elect a vape friendly MP and Bob is your uncle.....

Actually the next step is to present a private members bill removing e-juice from the "drug" category.

 

[Taps]

Are they continuing to harass the Canadian juice suppliers or are we looking at a Don't Ask, Don't Tell stance from HC?

 

[DemonCleaner]

No CObber, we'll pass around the collection plate all become members of the Conservative Party, find a riding where we can elect a vape friendly MP and Bob is your uncle.....

Actually the next step is to present a private members bill removing e-juice from the "drug" category.

I was on board until I saw the word conservative.

 

[Cobber]

Are they continuing to harass the Canadian juice suppliers or are we looking at a Don't Ask, Don't Tell stance from HC?

They question... Send letters. No c&d that I heard of lately

 

[Projectguy]

I was on board until I saw the word conservative.

Why is that one of the George Carlin words?

 

[Qcaj]

This was the info I got from Health Canada a few weeks ago... I hope it sheds some light..

To answer your question, there is no new information from Health Canada regarding the sale or use of electronic cigarettes. As was stated in the 2009 advisory, no electronic smoking products have received market authorization from Health Canada. In other words, no electronic cigarettes can currently be marketed as health products in Canada.
...
Just to be clear, if an electronic cigarette contains nicotine and/or is marketed with therapeutic claims (helps stops smoking is considered a therapeutic claims) it must have market authorization from Health Canada before it can be sold in Canada. To obtain market authorization a manufacturer must submit evidence of safety and effectiveness to Health Canada for review. To date, no such products have received market authorization, therefore we cannot provide any assurance that they are safe and effective, whether it is the contents of the ecigarette or the devices themselves. If an ecigarette is marketed as a consumer product (i.e. no nicotine and no health claims), because there is no pre-approval process the devices themselves will not have been evaluated prior to sale. In this case the onus is on the manufacturer to ensure their safety. To the best of my knowledge, however, we have received no reports of any injuries related to these devices.

You should be aware also that an electronic cigarette may contain chemicals other than nicotine. For example, propylene glycol may be used as a component of the solution that is vaporised. As was mentioned in the 2009 Health Canada advisory, propylene glycol may cause irritation.

What I got from this is that HC claims they are concerned with;
1) Safety
2) Effectiveness

Basically, I think it comes down semantics. Whether ecigs (and juice) are a suitable NRT for quitting smoking, or just another kind of cigarette has a huge effect on how they are able to enter and propogate the market, and which branch of HC the onus is on. Because of the nature of ecigs they can't really be classified as anything else (and which is why the lobby groups sometimes advocate for classifying ecigs as "tobacco alternatives".)

My opinion (and it's just that, an opinion) is that it's a really sticky situation whatever way you swing it. If ecigs are NRTs, they need to be treated to the scrutiny and care that other stop smoking aids (like the gum and Champix) are - which has requisite costs involved in judging safety, efficacy, etc. If they're classified as tobbacco alternatives, they have to be considered under a different legal umbrella regarding sale, display, advertising, etc.

Hence why we're right now in a grey area where I can go to the Shoppers and buy a Smoke NV from the shelf beside the Nicorette, and then walk across the street to the Sheffield & Sons and buy a Smoke NV from the shelf beside the cigars.

 

[chagrin]

HC is slow about everything and they probably will follow the American lead, but they're just slowly getting there. I'd imagine Lorillard's purchase of Blu comes with some insider knowledge of where the government is going towards e-cigarettes. Keep in mind Canada is generally a year or two (if not more) behind the states with any medication or food approval, so I'd imagine we can probably guess which way HC is going to sway by how the America's stance on e-cigarettes eventually balances out. Nicotine is highly toxic and fast acting, but no a drop will not kill you at any concentration.

People keep arguing that e-cigarettes should already be exempt under schedule f; http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/canada-forum/175897-schedule-f-food-drug-regulations-nicotine.html. This is interesting, but highly debatable and just makes everything more gray.

Eventually e-cigarettes with nicotine will be regulated somehow, whether it's an attempt at an outright ban, regulation, age restrictions, taxation or any combination is anyone's guess. Personally I'll think it'll be a few more years before anything happens.

What really bothers me about HC is the very sketchy correspondents they see to be having with vendors selling nicotine; http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/canada-forum/175827-vapables-no-more-nic.html. The vagueness and lack of distinction between e-cigarette products with and without nicotine a pretty shady scare tactic in my opinion.

 

[Qcaj]

^ - I think the problem there was that the seller was advertising their product as a smoking cessation device. I can't know for sure because I wasn't around here then, but it seems like you can sell either hardware or juice, but not both. If you sell both then suddenly it becomes a theraputic device and not a fashion one.

Even in the thread linked, people are constantly conflating the issue. People say it's not a health/therapeutic product in one breath, but then talk about ecigs getting them off tobacco in the other. I think HC is just as confused about how to classify ecigs as we are, but they're the ones that have to deal with the fallout if they approve it, and then 10 years from now we all get "PG-lung" or some other unexpected thing. But that email I received said the onus is on the manufacturers - to apply for a clinical trail, do one, and submit the results for review.

I don't doubt that there's monetary pressure involved, with the amount of revenue the country makes from smokers. But at the end of the day, HC cannot visibly and obviously refuse a proven safe alternative to tobacco products without backlash. The current grey area we're in right now actually seems like the best possible solution (for us vapours) given the information out there right now.

 

[LesVegas]

It always comes down to money. No government wants to let large amounts of potential tax revenue slip through their fingers, but on the other hand, they also do not want to face the massive potential class action law suits from families of dead smokers who could have been saved by a future proven safe product. In the mean time we all stay in the gray.

 

[martinc]

Speaking of the devices only....now you get the latest trend in power supply lookalike PVs from China

 

[MisterMike]

You should be aware also that an electronic cigarette may contain chemicals other than nicotine. For example, propylene glycol may be used as a component of the solution that is vaporised. As was mentioned in the 2009 Health Canada advisory, propylene glycol may cause irritation.

This devil-you-know type of reasoning behind HC's stance on e-cigs is what really bugs me. Don't want the smokers to inhale anything that might make 'em cough.

Personally, I'll put up with the possibility of an occasional border seizure if it means continuing on the way we are. Our vendors are doing a great job of self-regulation in terms of safety and due dilligence, and the market has reached equilibrium at a decent price point.

Soon as I get wind of the government warming to the possibility of the unrestricted sale of nic juice, I'm laying in enough DIY supplies to last me 'til doomsday. They aren't getting their fingers in my pie.

Er... that sounded wrong.

 

[WolfeReign]

So i took some time away and thought i would come back and add my but bare in mind i never got into politics or political hotbeds. That being said i am speaking from experience of having a variety of items sent from my wife in Kansas up to me here in Canada:

For all the times i have seen people talk about either traveling to Canada and having their PV's, APV's, juice, carts taken at the border by Custom agents saying blame health Canada or those that have shipments that have the misfortune of not making it over the border it is automatically declared health Canada did it.

As misfortune as it is, this is not the fit and finish of it, however it is easy for the government to pass the buck, as we all know governments do.

The issues lay in Custom's themselves. There is no regulation or clear cut (or fuzzy) definition where they can slap a duty on there so as the Government can stick their greasy hands in to the money pie. I mean if there is no way to collect tax (yes that is what duty is) then why should they allow it to enter Canada? Would it not be easier to cease it, toss it out and then say 'uh yeah, it is all health Canada's issue.' I mean if vaping was for your pet chipmunk then Customs would say 'uh it is all fishing and game Canada's fault.'

My wife (from Kansas) has sent me countless e-cigarette items, and yes the flavors and nic levels have been clearly written on the custom forums, but i guess the difference is there is a little known (i am assuming) agreement with Canada and other countries (like USA) that is also marked on the Custom forms when it is sent by UPS Courier and more times then not, four days later i have the parcel in my hands.

That single fact coupled with the fact that through the use of google, vape forums, vape chats HC could easily find the online businesses. I mean if....and only if HC was a issue, then there would be no chance in hell to have a brick and mortar store in Ontario, or One in Vancouver with another soon to be going up in Vancouver.

Again i have to state that if HC has passed some back room law that only they are aware of that would now see e-cigarette's as illegal then ever vapor in Canada should stand up and start a class action law suit. HC would be accountable for some many civil rights laws they have broken (not to mention financial) due to this. Honestly if this is the case then we need to get off our duff's and stop talking all tough, and getting out there and into HC's face in the real world.

However there is more then meets the eye and once you peer behind the curtain that they are trying to put up as a smoke screen you will see Customs has other things going on....

 

[johnnytwofingers]

then there would be no chance in hell to have a brick and mortar store in Ontario, or One in Vancouver with another soon to be going up in Vancouver.

What's this, a new store is opening in Vancouver?

 

[recidivus]

Indeed, do tell, another shop? Maybe one that has regular operating hours? Rent here is expensive as all heck though, I can't imagine what kind of markup could happen to offset that.