Health Canada's Reasoning for E Cig Ban

[WolfeReign]

What's this, a new store is opening in Vancouver?

From what i understand yes it is. I know this is going to sound like a cop out, but i am not saying the the name of the Vendor as i am not sure if they want it put out there till they have a grand opening sorry

Indeed, do tell, another shop? Maybe one that has regular operating hours? Rent here is expensive as all heck though, I can't imagine what kind of markup could happen to offset that.

I doubt there will be a mark up. In fact a lot of vendors have such a huge success selling out of their stock, so why not take from the overall profit? Or if there is a region expanding at a incredible rate and you are selling fast...... From what i gather as well is that CEV too is expanding and it has been said by the owners that they are looking into full time hours.

These are the e-cig pioneer days, so it just takes some time to build up to full speed

 

[recidivus]

Very nice. I'm working on plans to open a smaller online speciality shop ~Jan, hadn't even considered a B&M due to rent costs. Granted, that's in vancity proper, the burbs are much better.

 

[WolfeReign]

Very nice. I'm working on plans to open a smaller online speciality shop ~Jan, hadn't even considered a B&M due to rent costs. Granted, that's in vancity proper, the burbs are much better.

I wish you success in your business. in my opinion it seems easier to get a virtual store front then opposed to taking a risk of B&M and then find things are not going so good. plus a Virtual store gets you more exposure to get into a real world store front

 

[Qcaj]

Indeed, do tell, another shop? Maybe one that has regular operating hours? Rent here is expensive as all heck though, I can't imagine what kind of markup could happen to offset that.

The markup can be pretty high and still offset the minimum $10 shipping you find online. ($10 battery? $10 shipping please)

* - I get this is CP's fault, not vendors, but the point still stands. No hate to our lovely online retailers, it just hurts to think about how much I've spent on shipping <3

 

[WolfeReign]

The markup can be pretty high and still offset the minimum $10 shipping you find online. ($10 battery? $10 shipping please)

* - I get this is CP's fault, not vendors, but the point still stands. No hate to our lovely online retailers, it just hurts to think about how much I've spent on shipping <3

first off still laughing at kitty warrior picture. Second i would have to agree with you, and as of late i do not understand why there is this purchase minimum from vendor's. I mean you are paying for the shipping so why?? I know from doing a lot of shipping you can buy the prepaid envelopes for a set price, and if you buy in bulk from Canada Post oddly enough the price goes down for the total cost per envelope

 

[tygertyger]

Very nice. I'm working on plans to open a smaller online speciality shop ~Jan, hadn't even considered a B&M due to rent costs. Granted, that's in vancity proper, the burbs are much better.

The distant 'burbs are better yet, come to Abby lol! I need a local haunt.... the mail that never comes is getting me down...

Signed, tyger, who is down to juice dribbles and waiting day after day on a postman that just won't deliver! *sob*

 

[recidivus]

The markup can be pretty high and still offset the minimum $10 shipping you find online. ($10 battery? $10 shipping please)

* - I get this is CP's fault, not vendors, but the point still stands. No hate to our lovely online retailers, it just hurts to think about how much I've spent on shipping <3

You can imagine my horror when I almost ordered a 2$ part that was too big for regular mail...Lucky me that Jug was kind enough to add it to my order without making me create a brand new ticket. Sure I didn't NEED it, but I really wanted it.

 

[WolfeReign]

tyger i am dedicating this to you

 

[tygertyger]

tyger i am dedicating this to you

*giggling* Thank you, Constantine! That made my day! The mention of 555 in the song cracked me up because I *do* have a little of that here, but I kind of find it repulsive.... guess that's my punishment for not ordering sooner

 

[WolfeReign]

your more then welcome, now be careful as this song will get stuck in your head and you are going to want to hear it more and more There is a colorized version which is the final version but i find it takes a certain j'ai ne ce pas from it.....

If my internet *cough cough* i mean computer *cough cough* can handle it, when i do my debut show (lord have mercy on the Internets soul) i am going to air this song via permission from the guy who made and uploaded this

besides, i know it is hard right now but just remember no matter how much CP or HC seem to want to make you depressed, there is no matter what some story that will get you to crack up laughing over it.

 

[chagrin]

Indeed, do tell, another shop? Maybe one that has regular operating hours? Rent here is expensive as all heck though, I can't imagine what kind of markup could happen to offset that.

I want more stores to open in Toronto - outside of flea markets. I think you expect a higher markup as opposed to website, but just for convenience and to save shipping, it would be well worth it, as long as it wasn't astronomical.

 

[tygertyger]

If my internet *cough cough* i mean computer *cough cough* can handle it, when i do my debut show...

debut show? Oh!? My curiosity is seriously peaked now! You're a musician also? Tell us more! When can we expect to see this debut? Don't hold out! And thanks.... I seriously appreciate the encouragement. I've got a long weekend ahead of me of nasty 555 and dark Ry4 dregs, so I can use the smiles lol
tyger~

 

[WolfeReign]

debut show? Oh!? My curiosity is seriously peaked now! You're a musician also? Tell us more! When can we expect to see this debut? Don't hold out! And thanks.... I seriously appreciate the encouragement. I've got a long weekend ahead of me of nasty 555 and dark Ry4 dregs, so I can use the smiles lol
tyger~

nooo i am not a musician at all...unless you count the tooting i do from my.....anyway......

I am not sure you are from these vendor's, but you can contact them to see if you can hook up over the weekend?

1) CEV
2) Vapour Solutions
3) Vapor Geek

Option B: Head into the states and go to one of their brick and mortar stores there (the FDA is more relax there)

 

[SloHand]

Its unbelievable that public servants are sworn to uphold oaths such as "code of ethics" and "codes of conduct" yet they are to effin lazy to look at the facts that e-cigs (and snus) would save thousands of lives every year yet they do nothing, look the other way, pretend that there is no evidence ..... there is plenty of evidence!

This alone is an awesome read and the footnotes are all there for us to follow the data.

Just do what's right for goodness sakes and help those that won't quit the stinkies or otherwise have tried and can't. IT'S all about harm reduction.

Geez!!!! wake up politicians and do what's RIGHT!!!!!

I'm done. Carry on .....

 

[tygertyger]

nooo i am not a musician at all...unless you count the tooting i do from my.....anyway......

HAHAHAHAH!

Option B: Head into the states and go to one of their brick and mortar stores there (the FDA is more relax there)

No can do.... no passport, no special driver's license that lets me across.... and at current budget and gas prices, I will stubbornly await Monday's post! One of my orders was in Richmond this morning, so I should have it Monday I hope hope hope!!

 

[WolfeReign]

well if push comes to shove, looks like there are some people there for a PIF for you

 

[tygertyger]

well if push comes to shove, looks like there are some people there for a PIF for you

I had to google "PIF" as it pertains to vaping *giggles*.... but now I'm all savvy. What a lovely idea, and a nice way to waste not. But all I currently have to PIF in return is about 4mls of PG 555, which I'll need to get me through the weekend.... and to be honest, I kind of feel like I'd be cheating someone. (I mean, I really.... REALLY do not like this stuff *laughing* Then again, tastes vary! It seems to be one of the flavors that's been around a while, and it doesn't stay that way by getting bad reviews and sitting on shelves, right?)

Earlier was a scream--thx for letting me know about it.

 

[StereoDreamer]

If ecigs are NRTs, they need to be treated to the scrutiny and care that other stop smoking aids (like the gum and Champix) are - which has requisite costs involved in judging safety, efficacy, etc.

"Champix" is called "Chantix" here in the USA. It is a VERY powerful, unpredictable and dangerous psychoactive drug, and is used for a number of treatments, including smoking cessation. Doumented negative side effects of Chantix (as doumented on the official insert) include suiidal and/or homicidal thoughts, decreased inhibitions, increased risk-taking (such as gambling or sexual promiscuity), depression, unstoppable crying jags, uncontrollable feelings of fear, sorrow, or paranoia, etc, etc, etc.

If Chantix can get approved-KNOWING that it can actually cause people to commit suicide, become the next mass-murderer, or have unsafe sex with multiple strangers in casinos, then I think the FDA or HC will have a pretty difficult time claiming that e-cigs are actually a MORE dangerous NRT mode.

This isn't about safety--let's be honest. It's about Big Pharma and Big Tobacco being ...... that they missed the boat on a HUGE money-maker. They are going to try to kill the market, and scare consumers away from this "miracle solution" for people who want to quit smoking, until they can drive the small guys out of business and buy up all the big producers and take over their operations (Like Lorrilard buying up BLU a few months ago).

When Big Pharma and Big Tobacco finally hold controlling interest in the current popular brands, and control the lions share of the Chinese production capacity, this whole thing will change tone, and the FDA, HC and Big Pharma will all be singing the praises of the safety, effectiveness and health-positive benefits of e-cigs.

The "other side" does NOT play by the rules. They are not merely greedy corporate scumbags--they are texbook sociopaths. Just like with the fight for "gun rights", there is a time for being polite and a time for telling the truth and playing "hard ball".

And just like "gun rights", the Canadian Citizen's propensity for "politeness at all costs" may very well end up costing them one more freedom--the freedom to Vape...

Keep fighting the good fight "up north", brothers. But remember that politeness, logic and soft-spoken PR only works when your opponents are actually human beings with fully-functional brains, ethics, and compassion--and in this case they most definitely are NOT...

 

[Qcaj]

With all due respect, StereoDreamer, I have a small amount of faith that the bulk of the problems we're seeing now have more to do with red tape and ignorance than straight-up animosity.

I agree with you that Champix is an awful drug, but from what I understand BigPharma takes the bulk of the blame for being dishonect with the paperwork (filing suicide and psychotic breaks as "documented" side effects, putting them in the pile with things like 'dry throat' and 'stomach upset').

When I first started my journey to quit, I got a scrip for Champix (that I filled but never took because the side effects gave me cold feet, actually). I have to say that my GP didn't hand it out easily. I think I was in the office for almost an hour - surely I made the people behind me angry - he walked through my entire medical history, and that of both sides of the fam. He told me the other options I had (didn't mention ecigs thoug, sadly), and was honest about the side effects and success rates. He didn't even prescribe the full course, but rather just one starter kit because he wanted me back in the office for an evaluation after jumping to the 1mg/day before continuing.

That was TLDR, but ultimately I do believe that we have a right to make our own decisions. I choose to vape despite the legal grey area because it's what works for me and it got me off the dangerous, horrible cigarettes. People have found success with Champix and I think people have a right to access it if they are told the risks and weigh them against their own health.

I know it's not a good place to say this, but I do think HC has a point, in that the efficacy and/or long-term effects of vaping aren't documented and the quality-control hasn't been given the scrutiny that perhaps it should be. There's no guarantee that we're all not going to get some form of miner's lung or COPD from PG inhalation in 30 years' time.

Politically, BigTobacco and BigPharma (and, really, any lobby groups) don't have the power here that they do south of the border. It's not a great system by any means, but the system we have allows basically zero deviation from the party line. Despite my personal opinion of the current gov't, they are technically the best thing for ecigs getting to the market here with the least regulation (as they are pro-personal choice and pro-usa and anti-healthcare and anti-anything-that-costs-money), especially considering the stance the USA has taken.

TLDR; I appreciate your input, but the elephant* happens to be pretty pro-vaping at the moment

* - "Living next to [the USA] is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is affected by every twitch and grunt." - Pierre Elliot Trudeau

 

[Oriana871]

You both have very valid points.

Has Canada ever done long term studies on GMO foods? Or have they just handed their fate over to the elephant. Who does the studies? Who funds them? The FDA is busting health food stores. HC is now busting health food stores. Pharma is the bigger culprit I think, regardless any health implications. So is factory farming, processed food companies, Monsanto, plastic, oil, carbon monoxide, nuclear energy, you name it, etc. etc. The list never ends. The stuff that corporations get away with is incomprehensible. They care about our health? Give me a break. This is all about money in the end. And money is power. Plain and simple. IMO that is. Too many contradictions, too much hypocrisy. HC hides under the guise of "health" - and what always strikes me is how an entity like that usually sides with the nasty side effect ridden poison and downgrades the natural cures. Just look at the flu shot. I won't touch the stuff, never have. Had two minor flues in over 30 years. Whatever, this is a subject dear to my heart. I wouldn't trust them one bit.

I remember doing a quick google and easily finding that the FDA panel on electronic cigarettes involved many key Pharma players. And those same players have a hold in Canada, whether Canada likes it or not. Whether we're too polite (or just too comfortable) or not.