Health Insurance and E-cigs

[x-smok3]

Hello All,
I am asking opinions here, I already know that all insurance is different and may or may not specify E-cig use. At my place of work there is a question on the yearly form about tobacco use. I am going to mark no due to the fact that I do not consider nicotine as tobacco use. This will save me $50 dollars every month on my health insurance premium. In my opinion, if they don't specify E-cig use then I am being truthful. After all if I were using a patch, gum, etc. I would still be using nicotine.
My questions are:
1. Have others on the forum had the question arise with their health (or for that matter life) insurance and if so how did it play out?
2. In your opinion would it be unethical to mark no? My integrity is very valuable to me and I don't want to split hairs just to save money.

I know I can ask my HR department but I don't really want to give them any ideas about adding specifics about E-cigs if it has not occurred to them.

 

[Odell]

It is usually better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

 

[carpedebass]

It is usually better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

+1000!

 

[bmeyer46]

with our health insurance sign up time coming in October, they have now given non smokers a 25.00 per month decrease in the insurance...what I want to know is how are they going to know if you actually DO smoke or chew...Nicotine Police?

 

[CGlassford]

If it's asking about tobacco use, and you don't smoke or chew or dip tobacco products, then you are telling the absolute truth in answering "No" to the question. If they were asking about nicotine use, everyone would have to answer "yes" since it is found naturally in so many other things we consume other than tobacco.

 

[x-smok3]

with our health insurance sign up time coming in October, they have now given non smokers a 25.00 per month decrease in the insurance...what I want to know is how are they going to know if you actually DO smoke or chew...Nicotine Police?

This is true in some cases though it can be an issue as there have been a couple of folks fired for falsifying company documents, I don't know how they got caught. I don't entirely disagree with the policy as it is a higher risk for health problems; however I would agree with it more if they included other risky lifestyles IE obesity as that is a much more wide spread (forgive the pun) issue at my work place.

 

[bmeyer46]

This is true in some cases though it can be an issue as there have been a couple of folks fired for falsifying company documents, I don't know how they got caught. I don't entirely disagree with the policy as it is a higher risk for health problems; however I would agree with it more if they included other risky lifestyles IE obesity as that is a much more wide spread (forgive the pun) issue at my work place.

Your absolutely right.
While I've quit smoking, I really don't undestand why the smokers as so maligned.
obesity, diabetes, alcoholism, high blood pressure, post cancer survivors...all high risk technically, but smokers get singled out.

 

[Dauslyn]

with our health insurance sign up time coming in October, they have now given non smokers a 25.00 per month decrease in the insurance...what I want to know is how are they going to know if you actually DO smoke or chew...Nicotine Police?

The problem is that if you DO contract some sort of disease or become disabled, THEN they will look to see if they can find evidence of you having smoked/chewed in the past. If they find this, and you checked the 'no' box on your application, they won't pay out your policy. Insurance companies will do everything in their power to NOT pay out policies if they can get away with it.

 

[GIMike]

If you really have any questions, go to your doctor and ask him to run tests for signs of smoking. My father was a smoker for well over 40 years. He's been an e-cig user for less than 3. He had his doctor run tests, and even an x-ray on his lungs, all which showed no signs of smoking. I'm sure this is one of those "your results may vary" kind of things of course. But if you're worried about it, tell your doctor you've quit smoking and want to see how much your health has actually approved from a medical expert's standpoint.

The problem is that if you DO contract some sort of disease or become disabled, THEN they will look to see if they can find evidence of you having smoked/chewed in the past. If they find this, and you checked the 'no' box on your application, they won't pay out your policy. Insurance companies will do everything in their power to NOT pay out policies if they can get away with it.

So if you were a smoker 20 years ago, but have quit, you still have to check "Yes" on all paperwork? I don't think this is like your race or gender which doesn't change. I think you have a right to say no if you have truely quit.

 

[bmeyer46]

not sure about the blood work, but unless they have a very GOOD reason to check your blood, they are not going to go to the expense of paying for a drug test...very expensive. Besides, nicotine is not an illegal substance like ......... or alcohol and not even sure if it WOULD be tested for....good question.
actually i just read where you can buy a cheap test kit if you wanna bust your kids smoking.
but.....

Nicotine, in trace amounts, occurs naturally in eggplant, red peppers, tomatoes and potatoes.

just tell them you had mousaka and spaghetti for dinner

 

[x-smok3]

The problem is that if you DO contract some sort of disease or become disabled, THEN they will look to see if they can find evidence of you having smoked/chewed in the past. If they find this, and you checked the 'no' box on your application, they won't pay out your policy. Insurance companies will do everything in their power to NOT pay out policies if they can get away with it.

I did not think to mention it but in my case it is worded "in the past 90 days" so if you quit more than 90 days ago there is no problem. Good point though as I am sure some do not stipulate that.

 

[JustaGuy]

Yes, they can detect nicotine in a blood test, which is part of an annual physical I think, but I'm not sure if it has to be specifically screened. If the insurance company asks whether you use tobacco products, they have the legal option to screen for nicotine, which I think is what they're after. And insurance cos do check your medical records. Heard of coverage rescission? So I would ask HR, may even get it in writing.

On my doc's form, it asked if I used cigarettes. I answered no. But if it had asked for "tobacco" product, I'd have discussed with them. Some juice is made from tobacco extract/essence. That would be product made from tobacco. Tricky.

Edit: health insurace - bane of my...

 

[fray]

The courts have rules e cigs a tobacco product so technically checking no is not accurate. It's a bunch of BS though.

 

[Devonmoonshire]

Yes, they can detect nicotine in a blood test, which is part of an annual physical I think, but I'm not sure if it has to be specifically screened. If the insurance company asks whether you use tobacco products, they have the legal option to screen for nicotine, which I think is what they're after. And insurance cos do check your medical records. Heard of coverage rescission? So I would ask HR, may even get it in writing.

On my doc's form, it asked if I used cigarettes. I answered no. But if it had asked for "tobacco" product, I'd have discussed with them. Some juice is made from tobacco extract/essence. That would be product made from tobacco. Tricky.

Edit: health insurace - bane of my...

This has also now become even more Paramount to discuss with your insurance provider as well since the FDA has grouped E-Cigs in with "Tobacco Products" so you must make sure that you are legally covered by a clause that states that you are not smoking "Cigarettes" or using "Smokeless Tobacco" AKA Snus, Snuff, Dip, Chew. This is going to become more and more prevalent as these become more and more popular because someone is going to ultimately HAVE to do the research to find out once and for all where this activity of "Vaping" really and truly falls into the health care realm.

Just my Two Cents;
Nate aka Darth Vapor

 

[GIMike]

Smoking and chewing and snus and orbs and vaping are all different things though. Smoking doesn't give ya lip cancer, but chewing doesn't give ya lung cancer, and so far, nobody has gotten any cancer from vaping. I dunno....

 

[JustaGuy]

Smoking and chewing and snus and orbs and vaping are all different things though. Smoking doesn't give ya lip cancer, but chewing doesn't give ya lung cancer, and so far, nobody has gotten any cancer from vaping. I dunno....

Health and actual risks are probably never the point with them. They just want our money, G-man and the insurers. We're an easy target since we're a minority group. Since smokers are converting, they chase...

Yeah, fray & Devon, with the FDA ruling, e-cigs are by law "tobacco products".

 

[cookiebun]

Search the forum for "cotine"
You'll see there are plenty of threads on this topic. If you check "no" and your employer or health insurance provider decides to test you, they don't test for nicotine they test for cotine which is a nicotine byproduct that stays in your system for a long time.
Cotinine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
You also will not be able to get away with saying you ate eggplants or tomatoes if you are tested. You'd need to eat hundreds of pounds of those foods to come up positive for nicotine like a tobacco user. I cant find a source for that statement now, when I do I will post a link.
This is a serious topic and nothing to joke about. Call your insurance provider and ask they what their stance is on NRT. Some will let you claim you are a nonsmoker if you are using some sort of NRT, other companies tolerate no nicotine use at all. DON'T LIE. You could lose your job or insurance.
This is why I've weaned myself down to 1 mg nicotine since I started vaping in March. I'm tired of getting ripped off on my crappy health insurance policy. It doesn't pay for sh*%t. If I get sick or have an accident I'm still going to end up bankrupt, even with this joke of an insurance policy. I get charged $80 more a month for tobacco use.


Edit; should say cotinine

 

[GIMike]

Without doing the research you suggested we do, I have a question (my bad in advance?) Has anybody who has strictly vaped (not used other tobacco related products) been tested for any of that and come up positive? And how long had it been since they'd done anything except vape? That would be interesting to find out.

 

[JustaGuy]

+1 cookie, healthcare+insurance in this country is a travesty, OT.

Edit: also one reason I switched from analogs, to eventually get nic out of system to please the insurance gods...so I'm not meat on a hook for them.

 

[GIMike]

Edit: also one reason I switched from analogs, to eventually get nic out of system to please the insurance gods

You probably still have nic in your system unless you're vaping 0 nic juice. That's what I'm waiting to hear back on from my previous post up there. ^^