There is no increase risk of oral cancers with ST, and the oral health thing is highly questionable.
Tobacco Truth: Government-Funded Researchers Continue to Misrepresent Smokeless Tobacco Cancer Risks
Hello, and a thanks!
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Tobacco Truth: Government-Funded Researchers Continue to Misrepresent Smokeless Tobacco Cancer Risks
While I appreciate you quoting sources and all that, what I am going on is my personal experience with ST.
My gums receeded horribly, and my oral health was terrible due to chew. I brushed and flossed, but also dipped nearly every moment I was awake.
I also had to get an incisional biopsy on a scary area in my gums, which turned out to be massive scar tissue build up from years of going at it with the ST.
Since switching to vaping, my gums don’t bleed, the recession has halted and began to heal tremendously, my breath doesn’t stink, and I’m not worried about losing teeth or getting cancer.
Dip as long as I did, and tell me there are no oral health problems associated with it haha!
Just do you sk and don't worry about the rest. Your story will help other dippers realize they have the same option as smokers where vaping is concerned. Curiosity may have killed the cat but it saved the smoker/dipper. 
Looking at population studies, your oral health problems are not at all the norm. Something that makes me question your issues is you mentioned that Swedish snus gave you problems. I have been in touch with many long time snus users, and there has been zero oral health problems. Studies out of Sweden confirm it.
An interesting point is that people associate smokeless tobacco with oral cancer and oral health, but the reality is that cigarettes (along with excessive alcohol) are far more risky for oral cancer and oral health in general then smokeless tobacco (essentially zero risk for cancer with smokeless, compared to a ten fold increase in risk for cigarettes, yet people do not associate cigarettes with oral cancer).
What it shows is how successful tobacco control has been in misinforming the public about relative risk. Another interesting point is that the number of people in the US that vape is falling. There is little doubt that at least part of the reason is the misinformation being spread by tobacco control (the same people who have been telling us that smokeless tobacco is associated with oral cancer).
Go figure that the vaping advocates can't add 2 and 2.
Given that this site is both run by, and used by many people who advocate vaping, maybe calling them all stupid is a little unnecessary....
Remember to keep it civil in here
Considering a moderator advised you to keep it civil, I would highly suggest you do so. This is not how we treat new members on ECF.
@Stubby - the gums receding/ST has not been well investigated, from my reading. Probably because of all the FUD surrounding oral cancer and so forth.
FWIW, many years ago my dentist was investigating my sensitive teeth (due to exposed roots) and was surprised that my gums were showing signs of receding (despite very good oral hygiene, I must say). I was 29, and had been sucking nicotine lozenges for 5 years.
This was, she believed, the culprit. Was it? I don't know, but nicotine is a vasoconstrictor and this is a very plausible mechanism by which gums might receed.
I will say, though, that vaping advocates do sometimes overstate the risks of other products.
FWIW, many years ago my dentist was investigating my sensitive teeth (due to exposed roots) and was surprised that my gums were showing signs of receding (despite very good oral hygiene, I must say). I was 29, and had been sucking nicotine lozenges for 5 years.
This was, she believed, the culprit. Was it? I don't know, but nicotine is a vasoconstrictor and this is a very plausible mechanism by which gums might receed.
I will say, though, that vaping advocates do sometimes overstate the risks of other products.
Hello and a very warm welcome to you! So glad you joined and introduced yourself and became a part of our forum community.
Also, congratulations on forgoing something that was giving you problems and found something that, imho, is better, and certainly better for you!
looking forward to seeing you around the boards!
@Stubby again, I was not a “normal” Dipper or snus user. I was an extreme user.
Ask any dipper, snus or otherwise what happens after a long night of constantly throwing a new one in, what happens the next morning. One swipe of the finger will reveal plenty of dead nasty skin.
I’m not going to bother reading studies, because no one in a study would have used as much as I did. ANYTHING to that extreme isn’t going to be good for you.
I vape MUCH less than when I used ST, and it’s incredibly cheaper. I use maybe 4-5ml a day, compared to a tin a day, so I’m happy.
Ask any dipper, snus or otherwise what happens after a long night of constantly throwing a new one in, what happens the next morning. One swipe of the finger will reveal plenty of dead nasty skin.
I’m not going to bother reading studies, because no one in a study would have used as much as I did. ANYTHING to that extreme isn’t going to be good for you.
I vape MUCH less than when I used ST, and it’s incredibly cheaper. I use maybe 4-5ml a day, compared to a tin a day, so I’m happy.
You made a choice to help yourself for your own situation. Hopefully it proves to be the change you were looking for! That's what counts here.
Plenty to talk about when it comes to harm reduction at large.
Plenty to talk about when it comes to harm reduction at large.
Well, SK, I am going to say congrats to you, and believe me, I understand that kind of extremism (only with cigs). I don't think most 43 year old smokers are headed toward COPD land by that age. I was up to 2.5/3 ppd, and switching to vaping has relieved SO many health (and oral hygiene) problems.
I am glad that YOU are finding the solution for YOU, and that it's vaping. Having tried Dipping on an occasion or two, I can't imagine what it was like to have a plug in at all times. I think listening to your healthcare providers and dentist, and doing what is right for *you* is best. So I am still going to congratulate you on switching to vaping, if you are finding it easier to manage (that was my experience-- unlike tobacco I CAN exercise some moderation, go a fairly long time-- comparatively-- between vaping sessions, etc. I hope to reduce my nicotine soon as well, but I wouldn't suggest that any time soon-- I am hesitantly approaching the idea after vaping pretty stably for a while.
So, I remain thrilled for you, and congrats!
Anna
I am glad that YOU are finding the solution for YOU, and that it's vaping. Having tried Dipping on an occasion or two, I can't imagine what it was like to have a plug in at all times. I think listening to your healthcare providers and dentist, and doing what is right for *you* is best. So I am still going to congratulate you on switching to vaping, if you are finding it easier to manage (that was my experience-- unlike tobacco I CAN exercise some moderation, go a fairly long time-- comparatively-- between vaping sessions, etc. I hope to reduce my nicotine soon as well, but I wouldn't suggest that any time soon-- I am hesitantly approaching the idea after vaping pretty stably for a while.
So, I remain thrilled for you, and congrats!
Anna
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