Help.....I'm in way over my head

[Nwit]

I posted a question about the use of e-cigarettes in a poker forum, Maryland Live! (Arundel Mills Mall; Hanover, MD) -– FAQ added 2013.08.26 - Poker Venues -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums , post #447. The manager posted that they are allowed in the Casino but he reserves the right to ban them in the poker room. At the moment he is allowing them.

There was some back and forth pro and con and then I had the bright idea to post about the Drexel study. And then there was this reply..... #545

Maryland Live! (Arundel Mills Mall; Hanover, MD) -– FAQ added 2013.08.26 - Page 37 - Poker Venues -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

This is way over my pay grade..,...soooooooo, would anyone care to reply to Lee?

Thanks,

Tom

 

[xtwosm0kesx]

There will likely be someone who pops in with a well thought out response, but basically he is just regurgitating different variations of the same flawed FDA study that has be parroted around forever.

Not one link he provides (theyre basically all the same) states anything specific besides referencing "statements" made by the FDA, usually referring to previously mentioned study..

 

[CES]

So, my thinking is that the point of the Drexel study was to look at all the data, from all of the published studies IN CONTEXT. With all the data in taken in context, the amounts of 'contaminants" are below physiologically significant levels, and there is likely be minimal harm associated with the use of e-cigs for vapers and none at all for bystanders.

(BTW the ACS and ALA have a conflict of interest in that they receive funding from the pharmaceutical companies that make the patch and gum)

 

[J-ShaZzle]

Seems like he linked old studies done on cigarette like style ecigs and the Chinese liquid found in the cartridges. This was an old study done in 2009 and I believe only one company was guilty of having questionable substances in their liquids.

I look at it this way....YOU CAN buy every ingredient that is needed to create your own liquid. So if your afraid of contaminated juice then just DIY.

To this day, THERE ARE NO OFFICIAL long term health effects from using ecigs. Its not even ten years old yet.

Vape in confidence, know who makes your juice, how its made, and the ingredients. Trust me, I have seen how cigarettes are made and I'd much rather vape 5-6 easily obtainable food/health safe ingredients then "death stick" cigarettes. Also, according to the news....everything gives you cancer now so might as well enjoy life while you can. "Don't drink wine....no wait, one glass a night is healthier......don't drink coffee.......no wait, that's fine too"......and repeat with everything you consume.

 

[Rickajho]

I can't fight this for you on another board I have no interest in. That guy is referencing 4+ year old FDA reports which have already been debunked as junk science and then making leaps and bounds to draw his own conclusions. While completely ignoring the drexel study. You opened the can of worms if that guy is gonna hold onto "the FDA said it, or has been quoted as saying it, and someone else stretched it and reinterpreted it, so it must be true."

 

[AgentAnia]

If you don't want to get into a back-and-forth with him, you could simply state that the FDA study is outdated (it studied models that are no longer on the market) and has been superceded by more rigorous science, testing newer, vastly improved e-cigarette technology. The ecigs that existed in 2009 bear little to no resemblance to what we're vaping now. The Drexel report is the most comprehensive review of existing scientific research on ecigs to date.

Bear in mind, however, that most anti-tobacco, anti-smoking zealots (and this guy sounds like one) will not be moved by any argument you can make, nor by logic nor by any reference to literature you might cite. Their minds are 1) made up, and 2) closed.

Feel free to quote me if you'd like! Good luck...

 

[DC2]

This is way over my pay grade..,...soooooooo, would anyone care to reply to Lee?

This guy is pulling up all the highly respected garbage from a bunch of highly respected shills for Big Pharma.

The only way you're going to fight that is to shine the light of truth on the cockroaches...
FORCES International - News Portal

Unfortunately, he will probably just pull the "conspiracy" card and most people will think you're the nut case.


I have no doubt I could pull up lots of information to specifically counter each and every argument made by his references.
But it would take 20 times longer than it took him to post the lies themselves.

If you have one particular thing you would like to refute, I can spend a little time on it.
But to counter all of that is a heck of a lot of work.


I will start with this though, for countering ANY references to the 2009 FDA farce...
http://www.allvoices.com/contribute...tial-truths-and-exaggerations-endanger-health

 

[Orb Skewer]

Tell the douche-bag that Homo sapiens and formerly hominids have been 'successfully' surviving on this Orb for 20 million years

Instinct has kept us on top
I had some chicken from the fridge earlier for dinner-the first thing I did was to smell it !

If vaping was in any way problematic and potentialy hazardous we would have known by now

Oh, and also tell 'Lee' that $3 billion in turnover-is something 'not to be sniffed at'-unlike perishables i.e.-chicken, or a good 'hand'
sounds like Lee has a 'good hand' often.

 

[AgentAnia]

[....]I will start with this though, for countering ANY references to the 2009 FDA farce...
FDA's partial truths and exaggerations endanger health

This is an *excellent* rebuttal, and easy "civilians" to read and understand. Why haven't I been aware of this before now?! :going off to ream Steve the Intern a new one for not finding this and bringing it to my attention:

 

[DC2]

It's before your time.

 

[Orb Skewer]

This is an *excellent* rebuttal, and easy "civilians" to read and understand. Why haven't I been aware of this before now?! :going off to ream Steve the Intern a new one for not finding this and bringing it to my attention:

Shober shivilians friendly too-mosht ekshellent rebuttal

 

[Vocalek]

All of the really negative quotes from "the FDA" were not made by any official of the United States Food and Drug Administration. Take a look at the story:

http: //newsinfo.inquirer.net/ 434233/fda-warns-on-dangers-of-e-cigarettes
(Broken link because it is truly junk science.

The story is about the FDA of the Philippines. Apparently Filipino FDA officials do a great job of cherry-picking from negative stories (not necessarily the research results themselves, but how the results were spun in the media.

In fact, all of the negative things the responder had to say about e-cigarettes came from the media, rather than from scientific journals. The media has a habit of shouting possible bad news from the rooftops. If it leads it bleeds. There was a lot less media coverage of these two reports.

Cahn and Siegel reported in the Journal of Public Health Policy that there is no justification for banning the indoor use of e-cigarettes based on potential harm to bystanders. Journal of Public Health Policy - Electronic cigarettes as a harm reduction strategy for tobacco control: A step forward or a repeat of past mistakes[quest]

Of course Dr. Burstyn's article looked at the same studies that Cahn and Siegel did, plus more recent ones, and the bottom line is still the same. He writes, "There is no evidence that vaping produces inhalable exposures to contaminants of the aerosol that would warrant health concerns by the standards that are used to ensure safety of workplaces."

Finally, in a one-year clinical trial, Polosa et al, reported, "In smokers not intending to quit, the use of e-cigarettes, with or without nicotine, decreased cigarette consumption and elicited enduring tobacco abstinence without causing significant side effects."
PLOS ONE: EffiCiency and Safety of an eLectronic cigAreTte (ECLAT) as Tobacco Cigarettes Substitute: A Prospective 12-Month Randomized Control Design Study

I reason that if directly inhaling the vapor for 12 months did not cause significant side effects, the odds of there being any negative health effects on bystanders, who are only exposed to vapor after it is exhaled, are slim to none.

 

[Nwit]

Thanks for the wonderful responses......Vocalek.....May I quote you?

 

[AgentAnia]

It's before your time.

Oh.... That may explain it. Unfortunately, it's too late for Steve the Intern...

 

[AgentAnia]

Shober shivilians friendly too-mosht ekshellent rebuttal

Orb, Orb, Orb.... Have you been hittin' the tank-cleaning vodka again...?

 

[Orb Skewer]

Not my style sweetie, I like to stay up and watch the late show

 

[MonkInsane]

I posted a question about the use of e-cigarettes in a poker forum, Maryland Live! (Arundel Mills Mall; Hanover, MD) -– FAQ added 2013.08.26 - Poker Venues -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums , post #447. The manager posted that they are allowed in the Casino but he reserves the right to ban them in the poker room. At the moment he is allowing them.

There was some back and forth pro and con and then I had the bright idea to post about the Drexel study. And then there was this reply..... #545

Maryland Live! (Arundel Mills Mall; Hanover, MD) -– FAQ added 2013.08.26 - Page 37 - Poker Venues -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

This is way over my pay grade..,...soooooooo, would anyone care to reply to Lee?

Thanks,

Tom

Respond with these articles in response to his Mayo clinic link (Read em first ):

http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2013/08/even-mayo-clinic-is-spreading-lies.html
http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2013/08/mayo-clinic-researchers-who-oppose.html


As to his links to the articles quoting the FDA (Federal Dumb Asses as I like to call them.) , well such stupidity does not warrant a response. But check the blog above, there are articles on there with links to studies disproving that as well. (I'm too lazy to look for them right now.)

 

[Vocalek]

Respond with these articles in response to his Mayo clinic link (Read em first ):

http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2013/08/even-mayo-clinic-is-spreading-lies.html
http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2013/08/mayo-clinic-researchers-who-oppose.html


As to his links to the articles quoting the FDA (Federal Dumb Asses as I like to call them.) , well such stupidity does not warrant a response. But check the blog above, there are articles on there with links to studies disproving that as well. (I'm too lazy to look for them right now.)

I think you might have missed my post about the FDA. The quotes were not from the US Food and Drug Administration. They were form the Filipino FDA. Notice that the first word in the story about the FDA is "Manila."

 

[MonkInsane]

I think you might have missed my post about the FDA. The quotes were not from the US Food and Drug Administration. They were form the Filipino FDA. Notice that the first word in the story about the FDA is "Manila."

Oh, right - I did miss that! Thanx for the correction.