help me, having debate with anti-ecigger

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Technohydra

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1. If a company misrepresents the contents of their product on their website or label, they can be in federal trouble, even if labeling is not required. With that in mind, no company with an business or legal sense would dare to list something improperly on their label, or they would risk heavy fines and possible forced closure. Therefore, if VG is listed on the label of juices, you can bet it's in there

2. PG has an auto-ignition point of 699.8 degrees F, VG is 752.0 degrees F, nicotine is 477.0 degrees F, and the flavorings, almost all of which are stabilized in PG follow the same guidelines as it does. the notable exception is alcohol bases, and whereas alcohol is highly flammable, the act of filling your tank and heating the solution will rapidly drive off all of the alcohol in the solution totally. A wet coil will never even come close to igniting any of these materials. Hell, a coil has to try really hard to burn a cotton wick with any hint of juice in it.

3. Fire your coil in a dark room. If there is combustion, there is also light, as light is a natural waste product of the destructive distillation process. Assuming the coil stays wet, there will be no light at all, meaning that there is no combustion.

4. Combustion leaves behind ash or carbon residue. Point out that there is none of this, challenge her to find any in a vape stick.

5. Hand over annotated copies of DR Farsalinos study from a peer reviewed journal, showing that there is not combustion, that glycerin is an ingredient, that there is no indoor air quality evidence to to even suggest smoke, and that no one has ever been able to demonstrate the same.

If the above aren't enough to ensure victory, you need to look this person square in the face and very coldly and calmly tell them that they are doing nothing but trying to argue with you. You have gathered evidence from verifiable sources, you have conducted experiments that demonstrate both visually and empirically that you are correct, and you have consulted with highly regarded research to verify your position. If she isn't willing to even consider any of these points, I find it very important to call her on the infraction, to point out that she is arguing simply to try and reinforce a belief that she never had any intent of proving true or changing if proven wrong. She should be let know that this type of action has made you think less of her for refusing to use her mind in the manner it was intended. She has committed treason to her own reasoning abilities. Reinforce that she has lost both credibility in your eyes and the right to engage you in debate, because she has demonstrated 100% that the reality of the matter, in fact, the reality of the world is of far less importance than getting a win in a minor debate, and that makes her a very small and small minded person.

If this is a family member, I feel bad for you, because having to constantly deal with the predjudice and judgement of a family member is both difficult and completely needless. If this is a significant other, I hope you have either the luck that she will listen to a well-constructed argument or the foresight to get out while you can; if this is going to be your reality every time there is a disagreement, you don't want to be there. If this is a co-worker, be sure to do the above, but outside of work hours, so it can't bite you. And if this is anyone that doesn't fall into the above categories (lump friends in with significant others for reference), I hope you are able to sever them from your life totally. Nothing good comes of subjecting yourself to closed minds willingly; they don't encourage yours to open more, but to close down in turn.

Might seem like harsh advice, but I feel it is important for people to know how you view them in light of their actions, and then leave them to deal with that information in whatever way they are able to. In a lot of cases, you will help this person grow by letting them know how others likely view them as a result of their own actions. And remember never to get angry during a debate. Anger robs your mind of cycles that it could be using to reason out your position, and remaining calm and detatched makes it harder for your opponent to find a weakness to assault.

Best of luck.
 

Technohydra

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i know i'm asking for it here,so here goes.
just because there is no flame does not mean there is no combustion going on.
that gunk that accumulates on your coils is burnt juice.
a red hot coil will burn things.
the point is there is so much juice that 99.999999999% of it vaporizes
and prevent flames from starting.
your right in saying its vapor as any combustion would be non measurable compaired
to an analog.

regards
mike

That gunk on the coil is not burnt juice; it is residue of components of the mixture that are not able to be vaporized. It will only combust, with or without flame, if there is no liquid contacting it. Liquids can not burn. A substance has to be rendered into either a gaseous state or an aerosol before it can combust. That's why dropping a cigarette in gas doesn't result in a fire; the gas has to be rendered into a vapor to no longer be able to absorb heat energy. Otherwise the liquid will simply increase in temperature and possible evaporate some of it's volume off (and that evaporate may in turn be combusted, lol). Isn't physics fun?
 

skoony

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> that gunk that accumulates on your coils is burnt juice.

Not necessarily. It could be reduced juice. With an efficient coil it never gets to red hot unless you are dry-burning it. It only reaches the boiling point of the liquid.

That's not to say some combustion definitely will not happen in an inefficient build, and no build is 100% efficient.

no its burnt.
hold that little red hot coil to your finger.

regards
mike
 

skoony

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That gunk on the coil is not burnt juice; it is residue of components of the mixture that are not able to be vaporized. It will only combust, with or without flame, if there is no liquid contacting it. Liquids can not burn. A substance has to be rendered into either a gaseous state or an aerosol before it can combust. That's why dropping a cigarette in gas doesn't result in a fire; the gas has to be rendered into a vapor to no longer be able to absorb heat energy. Otherwise the liquid will simply increase in temperature and possible evaporate some of it's volume off (and that evaporate may in turn be combusted, lol). Isn't physics fun?
with a brand new coil when it first contacts juice it is in fact burning it.
the process is called tempering.
just because you don't see a flame doesn't mean there's no combustion.
it just means the escaping gases are not hot enough to ignite into flame.
after the metal gets tempered with juice you get more caking effect but
this will increase the temperature in the wire as it cant escape due to the insulating effect
of the caked juice,so there may be some very small combustion going on.
but like i said 99.999999999999% of what you see is vapor as any combustible component is so small
it cant be measured or doesn't matter.
so therefore one can say its essentially vapor and be correct.
i also would ask you to take the finger test.
place the tip of your finger against an exposed red hot coil and tell me what happens.
i'm not trying to argue with you but red hot is red hot.
people have had clothing start to smolder before there were safety enhancements added
to devices to prevent accidental firing of batteries they had in there pockets.

regards
mike
 

skoony

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Thats like saying the mineral deposits in your pot are burnt water. It's just left behind junk. To be fair, I haven't actuallyhad a sample analyzed to certain that the residue is not burnt junk, but it stands to reason that unless a coil is dry, thereshouldn't be any burning occuring.

any noticeable combustion. that's not to say there is 0% combustion.
in pure water the coil would oxidate so quickly as to destroy the coil in pretty quick order.
in ejuice it would take a lot of wattage to create an ignition with open flame.
ejuice doesn't cool the coil all that much.its still glows.
the point is 99.999999999% of the juice is heated and vented as vapor.
i've taken used coil assembly's apart to see how tightly spaced the coils where as i am now rebuilding them.
unwrap the old coil and it is encrusted with a black crispy substance just like on the
bottom of a well used pot or pan or burner on the stove.carbon.
the outer layer of the wick under the coil is unmistakably burnt.
there is an ever so small amount of combustion going on.
granted its so small as to be negligible.
that's why in the legal sense you can say its just vapor.
you don't need open flame for combustion to take place.
remember analogs?that red ember at the end,there was no flame coming out.
regards
mike
 
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