Help! Temp control has gone crazy!

[MikeB]

Sorry for my few and short replies recently, life is pretty hectic over here at the moment & I don't get to spend much time online at the moment.

I believe you asked for this though:

Not the best photo but the best I could do with current lighting conditions.

This was a SS316L build I tried shortly. Besides the wire type it is a standard build for me, although normally I use one wrap more. This coil got a little mangled upon installation and I was too rushed to build a new one so I just shortened it by one wrap and installed it anyhoe.

I just pulled it off and I'm back to titanium now but currently trying a smaller single wire coil for the first time since I had kayfun V5 clones, just to see how most people are experiencing these.

So far I'm not a fan, lol, but I'll try a tank or two to get a better impression.

Did locking the resistance fix the inconsistency issues you been having as I suspected?

Nice! Thanks for the pic. That's pretty much how my coils are looking now.

I have some 28ga titanium on order. I'm pretty happy where I am, but I wanted to give it a try to see what I thought of it.

No, I never did try locking the resistance. I've just been watching it, adjusting the temp, and observing it's behavior.

I'm now thinking there're no problems with its connections. I think it's something to do with how it's recalculating the "cold ohms". I've noticed a pattern that seems to correlate with the ambient temperature. In the morning, the "cold ohms" are low, since it's been cold in the house all night. And during the day indoors it seems to go back to "normal", but if I'm vaping outside a lot the reading goes up. The cold ohms are it's baseline, and it calculates the relative temp from there. When it's baseline is out of wack, it gets the set temp wrong and thus I have to adjust my temp throughout the day. I suspect this means it's not reading the ambient temperature correctly. I'll have to look into that.

I think locking ohms will fix this, but I've been more interested in observing this pattern to see if I can understand the root issue.

 

[MikeB]

Sorry for my few and short replies recently, life is pretty hectic over here at the moment & I don't get to spend much time online at the moment.

I believe you asked for this though:

Not the best photo but the best I could do with current lighting conditions.

This was a SS316L build I tried shortly. Besides the wire type it is a standard build for me, although normally I use one wrap more. This coil got a little mangled upon installation and I was too rushed to build a new one so I just shortened it by one wrap and installed it anyhoe.

I just pulled it off and I'm back to titanium now but currently trying a smaller single wire coil for the first time since I had Kayfun V5 clones, just to see how most people are experiencing these.

So far I'm not a fan, lol, but I'll try a tank or two to get a better impression.

Did locking the resistance fix the inconsistency issues you been having as I suspected?

I'm back to using twisted 28ga SS316L, six wraps around a 3mm rod again, but now as a contact coil. Also, I'm annealing it first to take the spring out so it's easier to work with.

With so much surface area, it produces a smooth warm vape, without having to get too hot. And seems to give me the best experience. With the size of the coil, I just have to make sure it's not touching any of the housing, but I've gotten better at building on this deck and that's a non-issue now.

 

[OhTheAgony]

Nice! Thanks for the pic. That much how my coils are looking now.

I have some 28ga titanium on order. I'm pretty happy where I am, but I wanted to give it a try to see what I thought of it.

No, I never did try locking the resistance. I've just been watching it, adjusting the temp, and observing it's behavior.

I'm now thinking there's no problems with its connections. I think it's something to do with how it's recalculating the "cold ohms". I've noticed a pattern that seems to correlate with the ambient temperature. In the morning, the "cold ohms" are low, since it's been cold in the house all night. And during the day indoors it seems to go back to "normal", but if I'm vaping outside a lot the reading goes up. The cold ohms are it's baseline, and it calculates the relative temp from there. When it's baseline is out of wack, it gets the set temp wrong and thus I have to adjust my temp throughout the day. I suspect this means it's not reading the ambient temperature correctly. I'll have to look into that.

I think locking ohms will fix this, but I've been more interested in observing this pattern to see if I can understand the root issue.

Yeah, locking it will take the need to re-calculate the resistance out of the equation entirely.

But whatever floats your boat, just as long as you know you have another option when you get tired of watching the resistance change

I usually lock mine FYI.

I'm back to using twisted 28ga SS316L, six wraps around a 3mm rod again, but now as a contact coil. Also, I'm annealing it first to take the spring out so it's easier to work with.

With so much surface area, it produces an smooth warm vape, without having to get too hot. And seems to give me the best experience. With the size of the coil, I just have to make sure it's not touching any of the housing, but I've gotten better at building on this deck and that's a non-issue now.

lol, you're going to have a lot of fun with titanium if you think SS is springy

Just in case you weren't aware;

Carefully annealing it is fine but do not dry burn titanium and only use it for spaced coils.

It will form an insulating oxide just like the other metals when you overheat it, but the white/gray titanium oxide is toxic thus unwanted. Avoid it at all costs!

 

[MikeB]

Yeah, locking it will take the need to re-calculate the resistance out of the equation entirely.

But whatever floats your boat, just as long as you know you have another option when you get tired of watching the resistance change

I usually lock mine FYI.



lol, you're going to have a lot of fun with titanium if you think SS is springy

Just in case you weren't aware;

Carefully annealing it is fine but do not dry burn titanium and only use it for spaced coils.

It will form an insulating oxide just like the other metals when you overheat it, but the white/gray titanium oxide is toxic thus unwanted. Avoid it at all costs!

Yea, that's why I've avoided titanium until now, but I've read up and it seems reasonably safe so long as I don't overheat it. I doubt I'll continue to use it, but you never know.

 

[OhTheAgony]

Yea, that's why I've avoided titanium until now, but I've read up and it seems reasonably safe so long as I don't overheat it. I doubt I'll continue to use it, but you never know.

Ah good, just making sure

I've been using titanium for 6 months or so now without any problems. In the beginning I did try to clean the coil by carefully dry-burning it by pulsing it at a low wattage, but the wire started turning grayish and I didn't trust it anymore. Now I just rinse them off under the hot water and rub them as clean as possible with my finger and/or a toothbrush when it is time to re-wick, and after a month or 2 to 3 I just toss 'm and make a new one.

The main advantage over SS is that the TCR is much higher which means less variations in temps if the resistance changes (for those of you that don't lock ). But you probably knew that already.

It is a stubborn wire to work with, but it becomes easier if you just accept it is stubborn instead of fighting it.

I usually wrap my coils one size (0,5mm) smaller than I want them to turn out & that saves a lot of frustration. I have one of those coil-master-thingies but find that it doesn't work well with Ti, I just stick the wire in a vice and wrap it by hand while pulling on it as hard as I can.

 

[Spirometry]

TEMCo 24awg Ti gr1 annealed is very easy to work with. The Stealth Vape Ti that I have is like trying to wind a spring.

 

[MikeB]

Ah good, just making sure

I've been using titanium for 6 months or so now without any problems. In the beginning I did try to clean the coil by carefully dry-burning it by pulsing it at a low wattage, but the wire started turning grayish and I didn't trust it anymore. Now I just rinse them off under the hot water and rub them as clean as possible with my finger and/or a toothbrush when it is time to re-wick, and after a month or 2 to 3 I just toss 'm and make a new one.

The main advantage over SS is that the TCR is much higher which means less variations in temps if the resistance changes (for those of you that don't lock ). But you probably knew that already.

It is a stubborn wire to work with, but it becomes easier if you just accept it is stubborn instead of fighting it.

I usually wrap my coils one size (0,5mm) smaller than I want them to turn out & that saves a lot of frustration. I have one of those coil-master-thingies but find that it doesn't work well with Ti, I just stick the wire in a vice and wrap it by hand while pulling on it as hard as I can.

Neat! Thanks for the info!

 

[MikeB]

TEMCo 24awg Ti gr1 annealed is very easy to work with. The Stealth Vape Ti that I have is like trying to wind a spring.

Good! I ordered mine through Temco. Maybe it will be easyour to work with.

 

[GeorgeS]

TEMCo 24awg Ti gr1 annealed is very easy to work with. The Stealth Vape Ti that I have is like trying to wind a spring.

I was going to mention this. Tempco TI is easier to work with then Ni200! Very easy to wind and not at all springy.

Since you have a TCR adjustable device (DNA) many of us use a custom TCR or profile to regulate our dry burns so the coil does not over heat.

Personally, I just rinse off my TI coils under the kitchen faucet after dry burning. The only metal I don't use spaced coils with is NI200.

Simple, single wire spaced coils with wire that has a decent TCR is best to start out on as it should provide reliable and predictable results.

 

[MikeB]

I was going to mention this. Tempco TI is easier to work with then Ni200! Very easy to wind and not at all springy.

Since you have a TCR adjustable device (DNA) many of us use a custom TCR or profile to regulate our dry burns so the coil does not over heat.

Personally, I just rinse off my TI coils under the kitchen faucet after dry burning. The only metal I don't use spaced coils with is NI200.

Simple, single wire spaced coils with wire that has a decent TCR is best to start out on as it should provide reliable and predictable results.

What do you mean, "use a custom TCR or profile to regulate our dry burns so the coil does not over heat"? You edit the material?

So you'd recommend a simple single wire coil? Ti has much less resistance than SS, I think, so what kind of coil build would you recommend? I got some 28ga and some 30ga, and I have a 2.5mm rod and a 3.0mm rod.

Currently I'm used to a twisted wire 28ga SS316L coil with 6 wraps around a 3mm rod.

 

[MikeB]

Sorry for my few and short replies recently, life is pretty hectic over here at the moment & I don't get to spend much time online at the moment.

I believe you asked for this though:

Not the best photo but the best I could do with current lighting conditions.

This was a SS316L build I tried shortly. Besides the wire type it is a standard build for me, although normally I use one wrap more. This coil got a little mangled upon installation and I was too rushed to build a new one so I just shortened it by one wrap and installed it anyhoe.

I just pulled it off and I'm back to titanium now but currently trying a smaller single wire coil for the first time since I had Kayfun V5 clones, just to see how most people are experiencing these.

So far I'm not a fan, lol, but I'll try a tank or two to get a better impression.

Did locking the resistance fix the inconsistency issues you been having as I suspected?

By the way, Agony, I've got my resistance locked today at 0.52 ohms. I've been at 470f ALL DAY. Never felt the need to adjust the temp. Smooth warm vapes each draw and every draw, with no variation. This is the SAME COIL that I have been using the last three days (dry burned and cleaned only).

My coil or connections aren't changing resistance, the problem is DNA recalculating the "cold ohms". If my coil was shorting, it'd be running hotter or cooler depending on if it was shorting or not, but it's consistently pushing about 14 watts after its at temp and the mouth feel is the same. It's DNA.

What I suspect is this comes from not reading the ambient temperature correctly when it's making its calculations. I noticed when I went to lock the ohms, it said the ambient temperature was 90 degrees. It was 72 degrees in the house, and the device had been in doors for hours. I think this is the issue.

If that's the issue though, how is it fixed? I have no idea, but locking the ohms works and that's good enough for me.

 

[GeorgeS]

What do you mean, "use a custom TCR or profile to regulate our dry burns so the coil does not over heat"? You edit the material?

So you'd recommend a simple single wire coil? Ti has much less resistance than SS, I think, so what kind of coil build would you recommend? I got some 28ga and some 30ga, and I have a 2.5mm rod and a 3.0mm rod.

Currently I'm used to a twisted wire 28ga SS316L coil with 6 wraps around a 3mm rod.

If you look at the "ultimate TCR list" posting there is a custom wire type/TCR for DNA and other devices so when you set your temperature, the actual temperature of the coil is 2x (or there abouts) hotter. Easy peazy 800F - burns all the gunk off without creating the needlessly dreaded Ti oxide as the coil is temperature regulated to a temperature lower than what is needed to produce it.

Most coils I like 28AWG, 8 wraps simple single wire spaced. That should get you a nice 0.6 ohms. (with Ti-01) Once you get used to making simple single coils reliably then venture out into more or less wraps, different AWG and of course twisted and such.

I see time and time again beginners jump into TC vamping with SS stapled claptons that they never seem to be able to get working right so they give up on TC as bunk and more work than what it is worth. (I would to!)

While I now have a collection of dual coil tanks and use them from time to time, I like to keep to the basics. I want a nice reliable coil that I don't have to fiddle with. To me its more about steady reliable low effort nicotine delivery than futzing around with builds.

 

[MikeB]

If you look at the "ultimate TCR list" posting there is a custom wire type/TCR for DNA and other devices so when you set your temperature, the actual temperature of the coil is 2x (or there abouts) hotter. Easy peazy 800F - burns all the gunk off without creating the needlessly dreaded Ti oxide as the coil is temperature regulated to a temperature lower than what is needed to produce it.

Most coils I like 28AWG, 8 wraps simple single wire spaced. That should get you a nice 0.6 ohms. (with Ti-01) Once you get used to making simple single coils reliably then venture out into more or less wraps, different AWG and of course twisted and such.

I see time and time again beginners jump into TC vamping with SS stapled claptons that they never seem to be able to get working right so they give up on TC as bunk and more work than what it is worth. (I would to!)

While I now have a collection of dual coil tanks and use them from time to time, I like to keep to the basics. I want a nice reliable coil that I don't have to fiddle with. To me its more about steady reliable low effort nicotine delivery than futzing around with builds.

Oh wow, so even at 800f Ti isn't going to coat up in oxide? I was under the impression it happened at much lower temperatureso, such as one might be vaping at. So I have no need to worry about pushing it to 490f or so. That's cool.

Thanks for the basic Ti coil description. That'll get me started, and then I can go from there.

 

[GeorgeS]

There are three threads here in this forum that might be of interest to you.

• The already mentioned "Ultimate TCR list"
• There is a dedicated TI thread with tons of useful information and
• The "Beyond" thread

Sorry, I don't recall the exact names (barely started my coffee this AM) however all three have good information on different types of TC wire, sources and TCR values that might be used.

Have fun and enjoy!

 

[MikeB]

There are three threads here in this forum that might be of interest to you.

• The already mentioned "Ultimate TCR list"
• There is a dedicated TI thread with tons of useful information and
• The "Beyond" thread

Sorry, I don't recall the exact names (barely started my coffee this AM) however all three have good information on different types of TC wire, sources and TCR values that might be used.

Have fun and enjoy!

Awesome! And thanks! Looks like I've got some reading to do.

 

[MikeB]

If you look at the "ultimate TCR list" posting there is a custom wire type/TCR for DNA and other devices so when you set your temperature, the actual temperature of the coil is 2x (or there abouts) hotter. Easy peazy 800F - burns all the gunk off without creating the needlessly dreaded Ti oxide as the coil is temperature regulated to a temperature lower than what is needed to produce it.

Most coils I like 28AWG, 8 wraps simple single wire spaced. That should get you a nice 0.6 ohms. (with Ti-01) Once you get used to making simple single coils reliably then venture out into more or less wraps, different AWG and of course twisted and such.

I see time and time again beginners jump into TC vamping with SS stapled claptons that they never seem to be able to get working right so they give up on TC as bunk and more work than what it is worth. (I would to!)

While I now have a collection of dual coil tanks and use them from time to time, I like to keep to the basics. I want a nice reliable coil that I don't have to fiddle with. To me its more about steady reliable low effort nicotine delivery than futzing around with builds.

So I've been running a 28ga Ti coil now for two days. It's a simple 7 wrap coil around a 3mm rod. It comes in a 0.6 ohms. I'm very impressed. I don't know if it's the spaced coil or the Ti, but it's giving me wonderful vapes, and the temp is amazingly constant. Even with DNA changing my cold ohms on me, the variation doesn't seem to matter. I haven't had to adjust the temp much at all, and when I do its only a notch or two.

Also, this Ti from Temco is super soft and easy to work with. It's not springy at all. Wrapping coils is a breeze. I installed the custom TCR for controled dry burns, and I'm just rocking along. Honestly, I think this may be my wire of choice now.

 

[OhTheAgony]

I'm glad to see things are looking up over there.

To be honest I don't really understand why SS is so popular compared to titanium. I suspect most people just don't look any further after trying it

My first TC mod didn't do SS so I had no choice but to try alternatives or I might have gone the same route, who knows. I've tried SS a few times since and it's not bad but I prefer Ti greatly.

I'm curious about that Temco wire though, someone send me a spool please

 

[GeorgeS]

To get good accurate TC vaping ether or both decent TCR or cold resistance is needed. (as well as good solid and reliable electrical path to the coil)

For whatever reason TC vaping started with Ni200. While it has crazy high TCR it also has crazy low resistance. Builders (and factory coils) could get away with 0.1-0.3 ohms cold resistance because of the crazy high TCR. The problems with Ni200 are that the crazy low cold resistance forced builders to use fairly to very thin wire (28-32AWG) which was difficult at best to wick without deforming and even more impossible to rewick and it can give off some rather nasty stuff if heated much over 600F (most of our mods have this as a upper temperature limit because of this).

Many early TC adopters started using TI-01 which solved many of the issues with Ni200. The cold resistance was much higher however the TCR is about 1/2 of the Ni200. Ti-01 could be vaped on devices that had only Ni200 support with a temperature offset. Early Ti-01 that was available was rather "springy" and more difficult to work with than Ni200 or Kanthal. Also of note if you overheat Ti-01 (I recall it is over 1000F) it will develop a white oxide on the surface of the wire which some users are seemingly terrified of. (easily rinsed off or avoided)

As you can see, simple single wire spaced coils are fairly easy to make and work well with TC. The Temco wire is very easy to work with. A decent TCR (366) along with a decent cold resistance (0.6) equates to a nice TC vaping experience.

 

[Eskie]

I'm glad to see things are looking up over there.

To be honest I don't really understand why SS is so popular compared to titanium. I suspect most people just don't look any further after trying it

My first TC mod didn't do SS so I had no choice but to try alternatives or I might have gone the same route, who knows. I've tried SS a few times since and it's not bad but I prefer Ti greatly.

I'm curious about that Temco wire though, someone send me a spool please

I think the preference of SS is based on several features. You can use it in TC or wattage mode, making swapping mods quite easy if you have say a small mod that doesn't do TC well (or even a mech or VV setup). You can build spaced or contact coils, and even twisted, Clapton, or whatever other fancy build you might prefer. You can dry burn it.

 

[MikeB]

To get good accurate TC vaping ether or both decent TCR or cold resistance is needed. (as well as good solid and reliable electrical path to the coil)

For whatever reason TC vaping started with Ni200. While it has crazy high TCR it also has crazy low resistance. Builders (and factory coils) could get away with 0.1-0.3 ohms cold resistance because of the crazy high TCR. The problems with Ni200 are that the crazy low cold resistance forced builders to use fairly to very thin wire (28-32AWG) which was difficult at best to wick without deforming and even more impossible to rewick and it can give off some rather nasty stuff if heated much over 600F (most of our mods have this as a upper temperature limit because of this).

Many early TC adopters started using TI-01 which solved many of the issues with Ni200. The cold resistance was much higher however the TCR is about 1/2 of the Ni200. Ti-01 could be vaped on devices that had only Ni200 support with a temperature offset. Early Ti-01 that was available was rather "springy" and more difficult to work with than Ni200 or Kanthal. Also of note if you overheat Ti-01 (I recall it is over 1000F) it will develop a white oxide on the surface of the wire which some users are seemingly terrified of. (easily rinsed off or avoided)

As you can see, simple single wire spaced coils are fairly easy to make and work well with TC. The Temco wire is very easy to work with. A decent TCR (366) along with a decent cold resistance (0.6) equates to a nice TC vaping experience.

I think you covered it really well. Ti seems to be the best of both worlds. It has a good TCR and a reasonable cold resistance that allows for "standard" coil builds with typical wire sizes. For temperature control, it seems like the best fit. The longer I use it, the less I want to go back to SS.