RDA Help with Magma! - Ni200 build

[Spizzel]

Sat down to build coils for the first time, just so happens I started off with a Ni200 build on my new dna 40. I have a few questions. With that said, I came from a nautilus mini where I enjoyed the flavor and vapor production (I'm not cloud chasing but enjoy a decent cloud).

Build info

Magma
28g Ni200
9 spaced wraps of on a 6-32 machine screw
Comes in at .12 ohms
450 degree temp limit
14-18 watts (been moving it around some)

1. Holy throat hit batman. I mean, I knew going in that a RDA will have more throat hit but damn! Is this expected? Im using a 70/40 6mg liquid...

2. Vapor production seems very sub par from all the videos I've seen on the Magma (or RDA's period). I feel like I should be putting out more vapor. What can I do to fix this?

Flavor is great but quickly becomes overshadowed by a pretty hefty punch and lingering warmness in my throat while I look at a small cloud

 

[bwhitt]

Welcome to RDA’s. They can be over powering the first time you try them. Turn down your temp to 410-420 and open up your airflow as much as possible. The air flow will increase vapor production and reduce the flavor and harsh throat hit. I usually run my single coil RDA’s at 20 to 30 watts.

Also, most people lower there nicotine level in there E-liquid when they switch to RDA’s. I usually vape 3 or 6, 12 will make my head spine on an RDA.


Your build looks good to me.

 

[xtwosm0kesx]

Its hard to tell from the angle of the picture, is the coil directly over the airflow hole?

Also the coil looks a bit high, try moving it down a bit, closer to the airflow hole.

 

[Spizzel]

Welcome to RDA’s. They can be over powering the first time you try them. Turn down your temp to 410-420 and open up your airflow as much as possible. The air flow will increase vapor production and reduce the flavor and harsh throat hit. I usually run my single coil RDA’s at 20 to 30 watts.

Also, most people lower there nicotine level in there E-liquid when they switch to RDA’s. I usually vape 3 or 6, 12 will make my head spine on an RDA.


Your build looks good to me.

I mouth to lung so I really dont want to open the air flow too much :\

Yeah I will def be picking up some 3mg, I like 6 in my Nautilus but dang, even the 6 mg in this thing is no joke.

 

[Spizzel]

This is where it's sitting at. I did move it closer and seems to be a bit better. It's also helped with the temp control not kicking in so soon. I take it this was way to far form the air hole?

 

[xtwosm0kesx]

This is where it's sitting at. I did move it closer and seems to be a bit better. It's also helped with the temp control not kicking in so soon. I take it this was way to far form the air hole?

Yeah that's really high, ideally i like to have my airflow as close to the coil as possible(without it risking touching/shorts etc), especially with micro coils.

Your spaced coil is wide (by necessity w/ the 28ga) so it doesn't have to be SOOO close but you can lower it quite a bit, it should greatly reduce the throat hit.

 

[Spizzel]

Yeah that's really high, ideally i like to have my airflow as close to the coil as possible(without it risking touching/shorts etc), especially with micro coils.

Your spaced coil is wide (by necessity w/ the 28ga) so it doesn't have to be SOOO close but you can lower it quite a bit, it should greatly reduce the throat hit.

Moving the coil down definitely helped. I'm still seeing less than stellar vapor for my draws though. For the same amount of airflow and inhale I'm getting way less vapor than on the Nautilus mini I'm switching form. I have a feeling it may be a result of a bad build, I'm hitting Temp limit super fast, like 3-4 secs and I hit my temp cap.

 

[RandyF]

You shouldn't be hitting TP that quick at that low of wattage, you likely have a hot spot some where. You will get thicker vapor with higher wattage, but you can't do higher wattage unless you have the coil dialed in near perfectly. On the Magma it is pretty easy, just put a 2nd wire through the hole with the leg. Take a small piece of the 28g and put it through the side where the leg comes out, so it is flush on the side where the leg went it, lock it down tight and snip both wires.

Fire the coil dry with TP on and make sure the glow (which will be brief) is in the middle and not on a single wire or leg.

This is the current build on my Magma, 26g 12wraps .11 firing at 25watts/410F and only hit TP when I need to drip. I take 5/6 second drags.

 

[Spizzel]

Thanks for the info Randy, I will definitely try putting that extra Ni200 through the other side. Seems like you've had a lot of success with this? Also, whats your ID on your coil, you doing the 6-32 machine screw right?

 

[RandyF]

Thanks for the info Randy, I will definitely try putting that extra Ni200 through the other side. Seems like you've had a lot of success with this? Also, whats your ID on your coil, you doing the 6-32 machine screw right?

Yes, the 6-32. I pinched it together just a little to get the legs even with the post holes since it was a longer coil. You won't need that many wraps with 28g.

 

[edyle]

You shouldn't be hitting TP that quick at that low of wattage, you likely have a hot spot some where. You will get thicker vapor with higher wattage, but you can't do higher wattage unless you have the coil dialed in near perfectly. On the Magma it is pretty easy, just put a 2nd wire through the hole with the leg. Take a small piece of the 28g and put it through the side where the leg comes out, so it is flush on the side where the leg went it, lock it down tight and snip both wires.

Fire the coil dry with TP on and make sure the glow (which will be brief) is in the middle and not on a single wire or leg.

This is the current build on my Magma, 26g 12wraps .11 firing at 25watts/410F and only hit TP when I need to drip. I take 5/6 second drags.

View attachment 400053

TP. Well it can't be toilet paper, so what is it?

 

[RandyF]

TP. Well it can't be toilet paper, so what is it?

TP = temperature protection

 

[Spizzel]

Fire the coil dry with TP on and make sure the glow (which will be brief) is in the middle and not on a single wire or leg.

This is the current build on my Magma, 26g 12wraps .11 firing at 25watts/410F and only hit TP when I need to drip. I take 5/6 second drags.

View attachment 400053

So if there is a hot leg or single wire that is the issue causing the TP to glitch out and come one early, how can I combat that with nickel? My builds have been super neat and looked great. If that happens does it mean I have to rebuild the whole thing?

 

[xtwosm0kesx]

So if there is a hot leg or single wire that is the issue causing the TP to glitch out and come one early, how can I combat that with nickel? My builds have been super neat and looked great. If that happens does it mean I have to rebuild the whole thing?

Pull out your wick, turn off TP mode, set it to around 9-10 watts then LIGHTLY pulse (just till it barely glows then release) the coil and make sure its heating from the center out/has no hot spots.

Do not let the coil get too hot/too red/for too long, as its not recommended to dry burn ni200 to glowing red, but should be ok with light pulses.

If its glowing from the inside out then you should be good, rewick it, turn back on TP, and give it a try.

 

[Spizzel]

So role play then, what if I do that but it's not glowing evenly? This is where pressing the coil would come into play if you were working with Kanthal correct? Yet with Ni200 everything I've seen says spaced coils is the way to go. So If things don't look to be heating right I have to scrap it and start over (since no pressing/contact coiling)?

 

[xtwosm0kesx]

So role play then, what if I do that but it's not glowing evenly? This is where pressing the coil would come into play if you were working with Kanthal correct? Yet with Ni200 everything I've seen says spaced coils is the way to go. So If things don't look to be heating right I have to scrap it and start over (since no pressing/contact coiling)?

If it has hot spots within the coil many times the pulsing will work it out and after a few pulses it will fire evenly. You may have to slightly shift the coil around a bit, worst case you'll have to wrap a new one, but i doubt that.

I highly doubt its leg hot spots since you're working with short leads (ie my veritas has a huge positive leg but i don't have issues).

The DNA40 can work with ni200 micro (contact) coils, but they need to be very well made and have a higher likelihood of small resistance changes which can cause issues with the temp settings.

Don't get discouraged, just keep tinkering and once you get it dialed in/all figured out, you'll be in vape heaven! TP is the future.

 

[Spizzel]

So i think i finally have a decent build that doesn't hit TP in 2 seconds yay. I do have a couple questions though that may help me understand this better, apologies if it's common sense to you pros but I just want to make sure I got it right...

1. The more airflow I have will prevent TP from kicking in due to more air passing over the coils essentially help cool them down? Same can be said for a wet wick?

2. Chain vaping will kick the TP in more quickly the more you vape? (Due to the coil never really able to fully cool down between vapes?)

3. What is the highest temp one could go and still maintain unburnt cotton as long as it's wicked/wet? (if question one is true, as a mouth to lunger I'm not taking in too much air so I need to vape liquid for as long as possible before kicking into TP)

Thanks again two smokes and Randy, you two have both been a huge help with this. I was/am on the verge of holding off on nickel and just learning kanthal first to hone my coild building craft.

 

[edyle]

So i think i finally have a decent build that doesn't hit TP in 2 seconds yay. I do have a couple questions though that may help me understand this better, apologies if it's common sense to you pros but I just want to make sure I got it right...

1. The more airflow I have will prevent TP from kicking in due to more air passing over the coils essentially help cool them down? Same can be said for a wet wick?

2. Chain vaping will kick the TP in more quickly the more you vape? (Due to the coil never really able to fully cool down between vapes?)

3. What is the highest temp one could go and still maintain unburnt cotton as long as it's wicked/wet? (if question one is true, as a mouth to lunger I'm not taking in too much air so I need to vape liquid for as long as possible before kicking into TP)

Thanks again two smokes and Randy, you two have both been a huge help with this. I was/am on the verge of holding off on nickel and just learning kanthal first to hone my coild building craft.

There we go.

Get to know the basics first.

 

[Spizzel]

My nickel builds are getting better and better each time, it's just that I need to better understand how different variables affect my vape which I will see regardless if it's kanthal or nickel. I figure with nickel at least I wont be burning wicks.

 

[RandyF]

So i think i finally have a decent build that doesn't hit TP in 2 seconds yay. I do have a couple questions though that may help me understand this better, apologies if it's common sense to you pros but I just want to make sure I got it right...

1. The more airflow I have will prevent TP from kicking in due to more air passing over the coils essentially help cool them down? Same can be said for a wet wick?

2. Chain vaping will kick the TP in more quickly the more you vape? (Due to the coil never really able to fully cool down between vapes?)

3. What is the highest temp one could go and still maintain unburnt cotton as long as it's wicked/wet? (if question one is true, as a mouth to lunger I'm not taking in too much air so I need to vape liquid for as long as possible before kicking into TP)

Thanks again two smokes and Randy, you two have both been a huge help with this. I was/am on the verge of holding off on nickel and just learning kanthal first to hone my coild building craft.

Airflow is a big factor in keeping the temp limit in check. Obviously the more air you have passing around the coil will keep the coil cooler. I had a horrible time with my KFL+v2's hitting temp limit too fast, mainly because the airflow is really tight and wicking is not very good. The experience on my Lemo's has been terrific in comparison. The better the wicking and airflow is, the easier it is to stay under the temp limit. If you are using a tank system, then you should know it's limitations as far as watts go. The KFL+ for example has a wattage ceiling around 16 watts, anything more and you will be vaporizing more juice than it can supply. I can chain vape my Lemo's at 24watts/410F without issue.

As I said above, I tend to chain vape and as long as your atty has a good airflow and can keep up with the wicking (at the wattage you are using), chain vaping will not factor in to TP.

You can set the temp well above the flash point of your cotton without burning it, but as soon as your wicking falls behind either because it simply can't keep up or it runs dry, it will burn. That point varies with different types of cotton, but anything under 420F (some to 450F) and you should be able to burn it completely dry without any noticeable scorching. If you want a warmer vape than you can get from cotton without going over it's flash point, you may want to look into wicking materials that have a higher one.