Here we go with another scare story/hatchet job article

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Jazzman

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I think the majority of the article is BS, but not all. I live in SoCal and have attended many local vape shows and cloud contests. I don't participate on the cloud contests, but find them entertaining and fun. But I have been to quite a few where there were children present. I mean anywhere from 2yo to 16yo kids at the event where it was so foggy it was hard to see. I had a really hard time not going a bit ballistic until I remembered there is nothing legally wrong with that. Let me repeat... nothing legally wrong with having children at a cloud competition or in a vape shop. So I just left and didn't say anything, but was sorely disappointed in the shop that allowed this.

So this brings up a greater point. Can the vape industry self regulate? I have to say based on what I have seen, no. Unfortunately, that is the sad truth. I have seen way too many instances where this just isn't the case. And I also don't see any fruitful efforts at regulation except by the FDA, which of course is way over the top with the deeming regs. There are so many common sense regs that need to be implemented like the under 18 rule for vape shops and vaping, child proof caps for eliquid, maximum nic levels for eliquid, minimum cleanliness standards for making ejuice, etc. But so far we have no regs and little control over common sense issues. It really makes me think that the vaping community doesn't care near as much as many would have us think they do. This industry is incapable of self regulation in my opinion. Yes, there are a large number of vape businesses that do enforce their own idea of safety and propriety in vaping, but it's not nearly enough and there's no way to enforce simple common sense practices.

I kind of wonder why we are not more proactive and entities like CASAA and others aren't sponsoring bills to enact things like prohibiting underage age vaping and allowed entry into vape shops and events. Or required child safety caps on eliquid. I really think we need advocates that take a more proactive approach to reining in the obvious abuses that exist in the vape community today and propose legislation that make the vaping community safer and shows we do care about these issues. If we say we can self regulate, we need to self regulate. I think we, as an entire community, are spending so much time fighting what we perceive as the enemy (FDA) that we are forgetting we have a duty to promote safe vaping and force busnisses into compliance with regs that most of us would consider prudent. Perhaps we are our own worst enemies.
 

towelie

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I am not much of a conspiracy theorist and I find it doubtful that BT is working with the FDA to ban e-cigs. I think the FDA just has a lot of anti-smoking ideologues that can't get past the idea that vaping "looks like" smoking.

Vuse labeled their cigalikes as a tobacco product and wrote a huge report to the FDA on why "open system" ecigs should be banned, just so ya know.
 

Rocketpunk

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If a parent comes in with a minor and tries to buy stuff for their kid, we ask them to leave. It's caused a few scenes of screaming mothers, but it's policy, plain and simple, and we stick to it, zero exceptions. Because if I did sell to the mom knowing she's going to turn right around and give it to her kid, I would get fired immediately, no questions asked, hands down. A parent trying to buy e-cig stuff for their underage kid is NOT worth losing my job, not by a long shot. It is strangely amusing to ask them to leave and hear them dropping f-bombs at us on their way out. Sorry, you should have been a better parent. Not our problem.
 
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Str8vision

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I am not much of a conspiracy theorist and I find it doubtful that BT is working with the FDA to ban e-cigs. I think the FDA just has a lot of anti-smoking ideologues that can't get past the idea that vaping "looks like" smoking.

You are right, I doubt BT is conspiring with the FDA directly, that's not how it works. Politicians are the link between BT's desires and the FDAs direction/intent. That's why Big Tobacco, Big Pharma and the healthcare industry spend hundreds of millions of dollars each year on campaign contributions and lobbying efforts, they are "buying" political influence. The FDA's position/policies/direction on vaping IS heavily influenced by the whims of the politicians who fund them and appoint the officials that run the agency (political appointees). Science has little to do with it but if testing (anyone's testing), can find something that supports their intent, so much the better. If not, then you resort to speculative assumptions like "it looks like smoking" so teens will use it as a stepping stone to smoking tobacco.
 

FastNick

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If they will ban vaping can you imagine how many e-juice (illegal drug in their sick mind) dealers will be? I think I would make a great kanthal dealer. I already see myself dealing kanthal and ohmeters at the corner of the street. I should start stockpiling tweezers, pliers and rubber o-rings. Also I have a mech mod with a side button that I was thinking to put it in the garbage but not anymore....I will sell that crap in my new shady business to some vape junkie on a dark alley for 1000$. I will sell ordinary cotton balls as Egyptian cotton so I can make great profit. I bet I'll be a millionaire in no time. And after many years they will make a movie about me like they did for Griselda Blanco and will be named "The Vapor Cowboys".
Probably prescription e-juice will be sold in pharmacies.
 

JustMeB

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Don't b&m shops have the right to refuse service? They should know better than to sell to minors. Let's blame them xD

Actually, being in "one of three states" that don't have these "laws" (Pennsylvania). The B & M shops, around my area anyway, all have signs up in their places and on their door that they won't sell to anyone under the age of 18.
 

JustMeB

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USA is way too protective of children, it borders on lunacy. In my grandparent's generation you were basically on your own as a teenager. In my parent's generation you worked from the time you could walk (literally) out in the fields picking cotton or whatever else was being grown. Nowadays you would have the government arresting such parents. People now are just wimps.

In Germany you drink beer pretty much out of the womb. A lot of countries don't have nearly as strict of laws on alcohol, tobacco and drugs and they appear to be doing just fine.

I have no issue with making a law that you need to be 18 to use nicotine products, but the CDC acts as if this is some national emergency. There's A LOT worse things kids can do to their bodies than vaping. The average American diet will kill you faster than even smoking analogs will. Sugar is probably the #1 killer in this country and we never hear anything about it (even though the evidence is pretty overwhelming that it's the major cause of obesity and heart disease).

Having family in Europe agreed and they would agree as well. Also, as I scrolled down to see the comments on this article, I noticed a video that says "high fructose corn syrup and what it does to your brain". Didn't watch it as don't need to, yet it's in almost all "kid lovable" foods.
 

stevegmu

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I have never seen a vape shop that says they don't Id either but how hard is it to get a shopping card at Wal-Mart and go online and clicking the yes I'm 18 button.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk

Maybe things are different these days, but when I was a teen, my mother was home to receive the mail and would have opened any packages addressed to me, unless they were from a friend or family member...
 

stevegmu

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Actually I have to call BS, reason being and I can almost guarantee that the tests were done using big tobaccos cigalikes. The Vuse e-cigarette has a damn plastic wick in it. Someone on here had posted a picture of one of the carts taken apart and torched the wick, it turned into a long piece of solid plastic. If anyone is bringing vaping down, it's big tobacco and their greedy get rick quick scheme who cares if they are vaping plastic.

Polyfill is a plastic. What's the problem? It is dry hits which are bad and VUSE has a chip which prevents them. I know how to use carto tanks, so don't get dry hits, either...
 

Jazzman

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If a parent comes in with a minor and tries to buy stuff for their kid, we ask them to leave. It's caused a few scenes of screaming mothers, but it's policy, plain and simple, and we stick to it, zero exceptions. Because if I did sell to the mom knowing she's going to turn right around and give it to her kid, I would get fired immediately, no questions asked, hands down. A parent trying to buy e-cig stuff for their underage kid is NOT worth losing my job, not by a long shot. It is strangely amusing to ask them to leave and hear them dropping f-bombs at us on their way out. Sorry, you should have been a better parent. Not our problem.

I guess what I don't understand is why you say you kick parents out when they come in with their kid that try to buy stuff for their kid. Why did the kid get in at all? Why is there a kid in a vape shop? This is exactly why I think we need regulation and why I don't think this industry will self regulate. Minors don't belong in vape shops. And yet this is a common practice that kids come in with their parents. I routinely see parents in vape shops buying eliquid or whatever with their toddlers while others are blowing clouds at the build bench in another part of the store. Maybe I just don't get it or something, what am I missing here?
 

Whitewolf2014

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I guess what I don't understand is why you say you kick parents out when they come in with their kid that try to buy stuff for their kid. Why did the kid get in at all? Why is there a kid in a vape shop? This is exactly why I think we need regulation and why I don't think this industry will self regulate. Minors don't belong in vape shops. And yet this is a common practice that kids come in with their parents. I routinely see parents in vape shops buying eliquid or whatever with their toddlers while others are blowing clouds at the build bench in another part of the store. Maybe I just don't get it or something, what am I missing here?

How many states allow kids with their parents to enter a liquor store? No really. I live in Pa where we still have state liquor stores so I don't know about other states because I hardly ever find myself in one here let alone if I am out of my state. Perfectly legal here in the state stores. I know it's not quite the same as a vape shop, but still.

My main question would be. Would it be better if the parents left their child in the car while they ran into the store to do their shopping? Because i'm sure no child has ever been harmed by doing that, especially in warmer climates.
 

Jazzman

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How many states allow kids with their parents to enter a liquor store? No really. I live in Pa where we still have state liquor stores so I don't know about other states because I hardly ever find myself in one here let alone if I am out of my state. Perfectly legal here in the state stores. I know it's not quite the same as a vape shop, but still.

My main question would be. Would it be better if the parents left their child in the car while they ran into the store to do their shopping? Because i'm sure no child has ever been harmed by doing that, especially in warmer climates.

Not even in the same ball park, much less the same. You can't drink what you buy in the liquor store. You really said that? Really?
 

sofarsogood

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The discussion about regulation gets crazy because everybody has their own turf to protect. There are more than 1 billion smokers and they spend something like a $1 trillion a year on cigs. The people who actually vape are the tiniest group among all the parties. The people who vape and the vaping industry are getting a bad rap, not because we are wrong, but because we are right and everybody knows it. The biggest loser in the vaping trend is governments and their beneficiaries because they take most of the money. In the US it appears most tobacco taxes are earmarked for public education--kids.

When Obama took office in 2009 he supported a $1 a pack increase in the cigarette tax to fund public education. Follow the money.
 

Rossum

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I guess what I don't understand is why you say you kick parents out when they come in with their kid that try to buy stuff for their kid. Why did the kid get in at all? Why is there a kid in a vape shop? This is exactly why I think we need regulation and why I don't think this industry will self regulate. Minors don't belong in vape shops. And yet this is a common practice that kids come in with their parents. I routinely see parents in vape shops buying eliquid or whatever with their toddlers while others are blowing clouds at the build bench in another part of the store. Maybe I just don't get it or something, what am I missing here?
I know what I'm missing here: How anyone is harmed by this. Unless of course you believe that those toddlers are harmed by seeing people blow clouds in a vape shop. Of course they can see their parents do that at home too. So what are you advocating here; that no one ever be allowed to vape where a minor might see it?
 

Whitewolf2014

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Not even in the same ball park, much less the same. You can't drink what you buy in the liquor store. You really said that? Really?

I cant believe your advocating for a parent or guardian to leave a child in their vehicle while they do some shopping, esp. a very young child. Point me to where the harm is for them to go into a vape shop.
 

JustMeB

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I guess what I don't understand is why you say you kick parents out when they come in with their kid that try to buy stuff for their kid. Why did the kid get in at all? Why is there a kid in a vape shop? This is exactly why I think we need regulation and why I don't think this industry will self regulate. Minors don't belong in vape shops. And yet this is a common practice that kids come in with their parents. I routinely see parents in vape shops buying eliquid or whatever with their toddlers while others are blowing clouds at the build bench in another part of the store. Maybe I just don't get it or something, what am I missing here?

Not quite sure if you're a parent or not, if you aren't I see why you're missing it. I am a parent, and although I agree with your earlier post that there should be a push from the vape industry as a whole to make sure there are protective caps and such on all eliquids, I think what you're missing is parents shouldn't hide things from their kids. They should educate them about things though. You can't hide cigarettes, alcohol and other things from kids and think to yourself, my kid will not grow up to use these items. They will if they want to and believe you me, there is always someone else that will be willing to "educate them" to these things in the world. Keeping them away and not educating them yourself is just asking for trouble down the road. You can't stick them in a bubble and hold their hands forever, at some point they become their own person and make their own choices in life.
 

Mrs C

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Good grief people if a shop say's don't bring your kids in that's their right. If you don't like it don't shop there.

As for a shop refusing to sell to an adult that has given the impression the item is for a minor again, if you don't like the policy go somewhere else.

Businesses have the right to refuse service for any reason so long as it's not violating non discrimination laws, AND guess what vape shops not admitting or not selling to minors even by 2nd party sale is not a protected class.

Get over it.
 
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