High Voltage recipies and clear tobacco flavor

[John Phoenix]

I have read/seen videos about high voltage e-juice. This juice being made to work better in high voltage mods 5 or 6 volts. I'm thinking of moving to a 5 volt. I want the best experience and want to try to make some HV e-juice because I'm a DIYer.

Anyone know what the difference is in regular diy e-juice and the HV juice - what properties of the juice make it HV?

Anyone have any HV juice recipes?

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Also I am looking for good tasting tobacco flavors that are clear because I wanna test the idea that the darker the juice the faster it mucks up your atty.

I like Wyatt Earp from freedomsmokeusa and want a clear tobacco juice that tastes close to that.

 

[Hoosier]

Can't help on the recipes. I've watched arguements that HV juice needs more flavoring vs less flavoring, but I don't buy into either.
One, I don't think voltage is the end-all-be-all. I think it is power. And V is only half of P. Two, I can vary my power, and do, and some recipes are better at different power levels, but they are good regardless of power output.

Now, FSUSA uses FA flavorings. So the juice you like is due to FA. FA doesn't use coloring agents to my knowledge, so the color is due to the chemicals that make that flavor. So, unless you, or someone here, is really good with chemistry involving flavoring, because it's a specialty field, I doubt you'll get too much like the flavor without getting the same coloration. Unless you could get someone in the field to give it a whirl... So, I think the best you could hope for is "kinda" close" to the flavor you like.

(But if I get a week out of an atty I'm happy as I seldom have one go more than 2 weeks anyway. So clogged attys are something I rarely encounter unlike burnt out heating coils which I can do easily.)

We'll let the folks that disagree with me get in on your thread. You bring up some good thoughts!

 

[upStomp]

I'm curious to hear what others have to say on this. I'm new to HV vaping.

From what I've seen so far, with high voltage running on high resistance atties, juice doesn't have a chance to gunk up. I've seen that where the reservoir would tend to discolor over a period of time with LR and std atties, the HR atty reservoirs remain clean. This tells me that the juice residue isn't hanging back the way it does with traditional or LR equipment - it's all turning into vapor.

This also tells me that "HV juices" might be just a marketing gimmick. Or maybe they're just higher in VG content, which has a higher boiling point than PG.

Still, to make something similar (but clear) to WE from FSUSA, start with FlavourArt's Perique Black (5% is strong). Don't let the name fool you, it's completely clear and turns a very light yellow when steeped. Then find some clear black licorice or anise flavorings. I don't know of any, because I hate black licorice.

ETA: I only slightly disagree with Hoosier's assessment that the end-all-be-all is power. From what I've seen, power is the first part, surface area is the second. HV/HR atties (I'm currently using a 4Ω at 6V, = 9 Watts) have a longer coil than with LR, which spreads the heat over more surface area. From what I've seen in my short time using this setup, it makes for a more consistent, warmer, and "plumier" vape. I can literally flood the coil and still get a killer vape. I could never do that with LR.

My LR setup is 3.7 at 1.5Ω, = 9.12 Watts - nearly identical power-wise, but the vape experience couldn't be more different.

 

[John Phoenix]

I'm curious to hear what others have to say on this. I'm new to HV vaping.

From what I've seen so far, with high voltage running on high resistance atties, juice doesn't have a chance to gunk up. I've seen that where the reservoir would tend to discolor over a period of time with LR and std atties, the HR atty reservoirs remain clean. This tells me that the juice residue isn't hanging back the way it does with traditional or LR equipment - it's all turning into vapor.

This also tells me that "HV juices" might be just a marketing gimmick. Or maybe they're just higher in VG content, which has a higher boiling point than PG.

ETA: I only slightly disagree with Hoosier's assessment that the end-all-be-all is power. From what I've seen, power is the first part, surface area is the second. HV/HR atties (I'm currently using a 4Ω at 6V, = 9 Watts) have a longer coil than with LR, which spreads the heat over more surface area. From what I've seen in my short time using this setup, it makes for a more consistent, warmer, and "plumier" vape. I can literally flood the coil and still get a killer vape. I could never do that with LR.

My LR setup is 3.7 at 1.5Ω, = 9.12 Watts - nearly identical power-wise, but the vape experience couldn't be more different.

Now That's what' I'm talking about. I need more experiences like that not to overlook Hoosier's post. See, I asked in a popular live Elixir video show what they thought the best atty to use with a 5v system was. They said 3.0 ohms. My Riva 510 SE uses 3.7 volts with a 2.0 ohm atty. I do not know if this is considered a LR atty but I know it's lower than a lot of others. I have had my kit a little less than 2 weeks and I am starting to get atty's that won't work so well even after cleaning. I'm on a really tight budget and cannot afford to buy a bunch of atty's if they are only going to last a week. I am looking for the perfect balance of voltage to atty so the atty's will last as long as possible.

Knowing the 5v will run hotter I am even more concerned about the gunk up and burning out of the atty's. Mind you I haven't chosen what 5v mod I wanna try yet, but I do know I want no higher than 5 to start off.

* * * * *

I just discovered today that when I'm puffing away and the vapor just starts to get a harsh throat hit, if I blow out the excess from the atty or do a Very short dry burn ( Just to eat up the excess) then the atty will go back to delivering a smooth hit with good vapor. This harsh throat hit happens with normal use while puffing, not because I flooded the atty - I don't drip but refill carts.

I'm glad I discovered that because I have been plagued with times when I would make a batch of DIY juice and thought the recipe was bad due to the throat hit being too harsh. I was adding a few drops to the atty as well as filing up the carts. It seems that may have been too much. Now those same harsh recipes are suddenly a lot more smooth like I wanted them to be.

*** Everybody talks about the dangers of making sure you keep the atty wet and flooding the atty with drops but I have not heard anyone suggest you can flood the atty under normal use and this is what seems to be happening.

*** I think this happens because the heat of the atty slowly heats up the juice in the cart and causes it to get thinner and flow into the atty faster. This would also explain why if you let the e-cig sit for a long while and really cool down, the hits are better.

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Hoosier I use FA flavorings. I haven't gotten any of the 5 I bought to start this journey turn out to be something I really like. I have been using the e-juice calculator, but I will try to look up recipes for my flavors and try some of those instead. Thank you for your thoughts on making the HV juice. I will try out your suggestions when I get my 5v. I too look forward to other thoughts in this area.

upStomp I will also try your recipe suggestions.

 

[upStomp]

See, I asked in a popular live Elixir video show what they thought the best atty to use with a 5v system was. They said 3.0 ohms. My Riva 510 SE uses 3.7 volts with a 2.0 ohm atty. I do not know if this is considered a LR atty but I know it's lower than a lot of others. I have had my kit a little less than 2 weeks and I am starting to get atty's that won't work so well even after cleaning. I'm on a really tight budget and cannot afford to buy a bunch of atty's if they are only going to last a week. I am looking for the perfect balance of voltage to atty so the atty's will last as long as possible.

Knowing the 5v will run hotter I am even more concerned about the gunk up and burning out of the atty's. Mind you I haven't chosen what 5v mod I wanna try yet, but I do know I want no higher than 5 to start off.

Yeah, 5V at 3.0Ω is comparable to my 6V at 4.0Ω. I think the advice you got at Elixir was spot-on. Again, I'd be less concerned about gunk when using HV.

I'm not aware of anyone using carts at high voltage. My instincts tell me it won't work well due to wicking issues and burning the cart/filler. You may want to invest in a drip tip if you don't already have one. I've only ever dripped or used DC cartos at high voltage.

 

[John Phoenix]

Yeah, 5V at 3.0Ω is comparable to my 6V at 4.0Ω. I think the advice you got at Elixir was spot-on. Again, I'd be less concerned about gunk when using HV.

I'm not aware of anyone using carts at high voltage. My instincts tell me it won't work well due to wicking issues and burning the cart/filler. You may want to invest in a drip tip if you don't already have one. I've only ever dripped or used DC cartos at high voltage.

The Detonator, (so far my favorite YouTube video of a 5v mod used carts) uses carts. Robert the creator uses the tea bag mod in the carts as a filler. He has said in the videos he doesn't have a problem with the filler sticking to the atty with 5v but he does with his 6v models.

I love carts because I already have them and they will last forever - barring replacing worn filler now and then. A full cart with about 18 drops can last me several hours. I have tried dripping and just cannot get used to it. Perhaps HV dripping would give me a different experience.

 

[Switched]

Can't speak for all vendors but NHaler's HV liquid is 12mg. The rationale behind the lower mg is because the size of the hit from HV. Vaping high mg liquids at HV will result in Nic headaches for many. That is all I know about HV liquids. FWIW I vape 0 nic after 9pm and have no problems with vapour, flavour or TH at 6V.

OTOH if I need a fix (still craving at times), 6V and 18mg will get me there. 4-5 pulls is all it takes but YMMV

 

[Hoosier]

Still going with power. I've found most batteries cannot put out enough current to handle the calculated power for low voltage/higher power vaping.

But, the atomizer does make a big difference. Take the same rig, same juice, and then switch out Joye, Cisco, and Iken sometime. It is really amazing the differences in the way they feel. So, there may be something to upstomp's longer coil viewpoint.

 

[Switched]

True... OTOH when utilizing the proper batts for the application, there is a world of difference. My personal choice is 7W, regardless how that wattage is achieved

WRT atomizers, yup! there is a major difference there.

 

[upStomp]

Still going with power. I've found most batteries cannot put out enough current to handle the calculated power for low voltage/higher power vaping.

But, the atomizer does make a big difference. Take the same rig, same juice, and then switch out Joye, Cisco, and Iken sometime. It is really amazing the differences in the way they feel. So, there may be something to upstomp's longer coil viewpoint.

Great point. My 3.7 Utrafires likely aren't feeding my LR's as efficiently as my LifePO4's are feeding the HV coils. I hadn't thought of that.

 

[upStomp]

Can't speak for all vendors but NHaler's HV liquid is 12mg. The rationale behind the lower mg is because the size of the hit from HV. Vaping high mg liquids at HV will result in Nic headaches for many. That is all I know about HV liquids. FWIW I vape 0 nic after 9pm and have no problems with vapour, flavour or TH at 6V.

OTOH if I need a fix (still craving at times), 6V and 18mg will get me there. 4-5 pulls is all it takes but YMMV

Yeah, I've definitely noticed myself weakening my recipes a bit for HV without even really thinking about it. I normally vape around 20mg. I'll trying going right to 12mg and compare.

 

[upStomp]

Just wanted to update and say I inadvertently proved part of Switched's/NHaler's hypothesis. I HV vaped a good amount of 24mg last night and woke up with burn blisters on the roof of my mouth. Won't be doing that again. My 12mg mixes on HV easily replicate 24mg on LR anyway.

 

[John Phoenix]

Just wanted to update and say I inadvertently proved part of Switched's/NHaler's hypothesis. I HV vaped a good amount of 24mg last night and woke up with burn blisters on the roof of my mouth. Won't be doing that again. My 12mg mixes on HV easily replicate 24mg on LR anyway.

That's awesome and good to know. Yet I wonder is it's because your really taking a much larger hit or if the juice is burning faster/hotter and the active ingredient becomes more active? Or a combo of the two.. For me.. I have to understand all the why's like a scientist.

Perhaps you could try taking a smaller hit with 12MG nic and see what effect it has, proving or disproving it's the hit size and not the heat that's doing it or vice versa..

With my 3.7 I can take a very long slow hit at high mg and it may not equal the hit you get with smaller mg with greater heat. I want to Know..

I have got it in my head that hotter heat causes even a smaller amount of nicotine to seem stronger. I want to prove or disprove that..

I think that because the surface area of the atty really hasn't changed to allow for a bigger hit at the same strength, to effect you thus, so it has to be the heat that's doing it, making the hit seem stronger.

I'm not putting this very good but I think you can understand what I'm trying to get at. If it's not the size of the hit but the heat that's changing the effects of the nic then this info will speak volumes toward designing better cartomizers and juice.

 

[upStomp]

Yes, I'm pumped to have a blistered mouth

I'm thinking the burns are a result of vaping more nicotine per vape due to the increased vapor production. I know how hot pizza is when it burns the roof of my mouth, and the vapor is nowhere near that hot. I don't think it says anything about whether the increased nicotine is a result of more heat or more surface area, likely it's a combination. I've cut the same juice by 50% and I'll vape it tonight on the same set up. We'll see if my mouth gets worse.

Talk about taking one for the team, eh?

 

[John Phoenix]

Yes, I'm pumped to have a blistered mouth

I'm thinking the burns are a result of vaping more nicotine per vape due to the increased vapor production. I know how hot pizza is when it burns the roof of my mouth, and the vapor is nowhere near that hot. I don't think it says anything about whether the increased nicotine is a result of more heat or more surface area, likely it's a combination. I've cut the same juice by 50% and I'll vape it tonight on the same set up. We'll see if my mouth gets worse.

Talk about taking one for the team, eh?

While experimentation to provide data is in order DONT MAKE YOUR MOUTH WORSE.. wait a day or two.besides.. That Hot chick you see on ElixerTV might pay you a visit. You may need that mouth.

 

[upStomp]

Too late. Just got home and immediately fired up the HV rig. So far, so good. Actually, I was vaping on it this morning with the cut juice and didn't have any recurrences during the day. I think we're on to something.

By the way, I cut it with 100% VG, bringing the total VG concentration to around 65%.

ETA: There's a hot chick on Elixir???



-The Happily Married Stomp

 

[Bovinia]

Good theories guys, I have a question for you Stomp. Was the juice that fried the roof of your mouth a new recipe or something you are already used to vaping?

The reason I ask is that I made a recipe last night using a flavoring that I have never used before (mixed at my usual 12mg) and it fried the roof of my mouth. Vaping @ 4.6 on a Buzz normally, but I tried out this mix at 5v using a 3.0Ω carto.

 

[upStomp]

Great question, Bov. It's a FA Tiramisu recipe I've been vaping for about a week. I was still on the first experimental batch, which was definitely on the strong side (10% flavor - seems spot on now at about 5%). It's definitely possible that the flavoring itself had something to do with it too, but I could really feel the nic going crazy at 24mg.

Been vaping it now at ~12mg and ~5% flavor for the last couple hours without any issues. I should know for sure in the morning. This is all on my Omega at 6V (metering at 6.4V after about 5 total hours in use over 2 days - damn, I love LiFePO4's) on a metered 3.4Ω atty.

 

[Bovinia]

Thanks Stomp. I actually saw you post on another thread about the flavor in question in my case...PA's Sweet Cream. The flavor is not offensive to me itself but since it was the first time I have used it I am guessing it is the culprit. I'm a flavor ..... and still mix at 20%.

This mix was 50% Capella Toasted Almond, 40% PA Sweet Cream and the last 10% was mostly PA Cotton Candy with a couple of drops of FA Vanilla Tahiti, 70PG 30VG.

I have never used the Cream or the Tahiti but I doubt there was enough of the Tahiti to cause the problem. The Almond and Cotton Candy I use frequently with no problems. I may have to go back to the FA Fresh Cream.

Sorry for the hijack! I'll keep an eye out here on the experiment you guys are doing