why does 30 or 32 Awg Kanthal produce less throat hit than 26-28 Awg kanthal... has anybody had the same experience and can tell me why/how this is?
Higher AWG wire gives less throat hit?
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i have never found this to be the case. it could be that there is less material to heat up in higher gauge wires so they got hotter faster. other than that the only thing ive found wire effects in the TH is how much surface area there is in the build. more surface are = more juice vaporized at once. on a mech mod higher gauge wires will pull less amps and therfore get less hot which could also effect TH
^^^ +1
You'd have to give device specifics, although we could assume a mech with high probability (there's high watt regulated mods too).
Anyway, the watts that you end up putting out heat the wire. Now, with heavier wire, there's more to heat, and it's spread out over (possibly) a different surface area around the wick.
So it's a lot of things...you need more watts for heavy gauge wire...but you didn't specify ohms anywhere in your comparison so it's basically meaningless by itself (no offense meant, just saying that you can't tell). And even if you mention the ohms, there's still "the build" which is a poor way of saying the surface area of the coils and the watts you put into them and that includes all 3 dimensions so diameter of coils matters too.
It's a whole thermodynamics thing that 99.999% of vapers cannot even understand fully (like me...I mean I can't either).
With a vv or vw mod, you could adjust it. Usual rule of thumb is that thinner wire is hotter and produces more TH per mm of coil, but like I said, it depends on "the build".
You'd have to give device specifics, although we could assume a mech with high probability (there's high watt regulated mods too).
Anyway, the watts that you end up putting out heat the wire. Now, with heavier wire, there's more to heat, and it's spread out over (possibly) a different surface area around the wick.
So it's a lot of things...you need more watts for heavy gauge wire...but you didn't specify ohms anywhere in your comparison so it's basically meaningless by itself (no offense meant, just saying that you can't tell). And even if you mention the ohms, there's still "the build" which is a poor way of saying the surface area of the coils and the watts you put into them and that includes all 3 dimensions so diameter of coils matters too.
It's a whole thermodynamics thing that 99.999% of vapers cannot even understand fully (like me...I mean I can't either).
With a vv or vw mod, you could adjust it. Usual rule of thumb is that thinner wire is hotter and produces more TH per mm of coil, but like I said, it depends on "the build".
well.. i have 2 lemo atty's..1 is running at 3.5 ohms on a 30 awg kanthal and the over is a 28 gauge at 2.5 ohms.. both running the same juice and same airflow.. same amount of cotton both with a 3.5mm ID.. the 30awg at 3.5 ohms produces significantly less TH no matter how many watts i test them both on
3.5 ohms...on a mech? Or what device?
P.S. 3.5 ohms is really high ohms. "standard" is more like 1.5 -2.5, with 1.8 being real common...but that's for even thinner wire, like 32 or 34 ga. Thicker wire needs even more watts than the thin stuff.
We also can't tell if your device is amp limited unless you can tell us the device or the specs. Many devices have amp limits. And even mechs have limits due to the specific battery.
You'd have to do a watts calc per mm^3 to really gauge the heat. Otherwise, start low and dial up. But if your ohms start too high to begin with, you can't dial up enough. Make sense?
also, 30 ga isn't all that "heavy"...stock is (or used to be) about 34 ga.
P.S. 3.5 ohms is really high ohms. "standard" is more like 1.5 -2.5, with 1.8 being real common...but that's for even thinner wire, like 32 or 34 ga. Thicker wire needs even more watts than the thin stuff.
We also can't tell if your device is amp limited unless you can tell us the device or the specs. Many devices have amp limits. And even mechs have limits due to the specific battery.
You'd have to do a watts calc per mm^3 to really gauge the heat. Otherwise, start low and dial up. But if your ohms start too high to begin with, you can't dial up enough. Make sense?
also, 30 ga isn't all that "heavy"...stock is (or used to be) about 34 ga.
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I use a cloupor t6 and the Vape is nice and cool at 3.5.... am not keen on a warm Vape to much TH for me.. i vape between 12.5 and 17.5 watts depending on juice..only bought the cloupor for the 26650 battery life
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OH! I kind of assumed from the 1st post that you WANTED more TH. But if not, fine, do the higher ohms.
There's less chance of producing "nasties" if you don't overheat the juice anyway. So that's a good thing.
So anyway, that's basically why (all the above info).
Heavier wire requires more watts to heat it.
Heavier wire has lower ohms per inch.
Heat is spread over a different area.
Device differences. Build differences including ohms diff.
They all factor into it. You can't just compare one thing, like wire gauge, in isolation. It's all interrelated.
There's less chance of producing "nasties" if you don't overheat the juice anyway. So that's a good thing.
So anyway, that's basically why (all the above info).
Heavier wire requires more watts to heat it.
Heavier wire has lower ohms per inch.
Heat is spread over a different area.
Device differences. Build differences including ohms diff.
They all factor into it. You can't just compare one thing, like wire gauge, in isolation. It's all interrelated.
AttyPops is right
Putting my own spin on it, wire gauge in itself does not affect TH. Nicotine content is the biggest contributor to TH. The more watts (power) you vape at with the same juice the more juice is going to be vaporized with each drag so you get more nicotine and thus more TH.
Vaping at 15 watts with 30 awg wire will be a warmer vape than with 26 gauge wire though, so you're more likely to turn the watts down to get the cooler vape you're looking for and that will give you less TH. OTOH, if you turn up the watts with the 26 gauge setup to get the same warmth as with the 30 gauge wire, you'll probably find you have more vapor production and more TH than with the 30 gauge.
More PG more TH. Simple. If you want less TH vape 70% minimum VG juices. This % vapes best in an RDA and is tougher to get through a tank or any stock coil. I vape 70%+ through my Lemo at .3-.5 resistance with power of around 15 to 20 watts on a Cloupor. Full mouth to lung hits with zero throat hit. It's a warmer vape than you are used to but my sweet spot. I will go as high as 25 watts. As atty pop said many other factors as well wicking being a huge one, coil ID, quality of build, etc. In general though, higher VG ratio give much less, zero throat hit.
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Here are your builds: 30ga, 28ga. OK, I assumed wrapping on a 2mm bit, but that's not really important; the surface area, coil mass, things like that don't really change.
So, from what I can tell: You're using quite a bit of wire! I already knew that from the high resistances, but the 28ga one is comparable to a much lower ohm build I'm using at a significantly higher wattage. So, it's going to take more time/power to heat your coils, and they're going to want to hold on to that heat. Using less resistance would probably help you out here, since you'll need less wraps. You could easily halve your resistance at the same wattage, and everything would work out just fine.
Another reason why less resistance would be good: Your coils would be more narrow. My coils with direct airflow provide a much smoother vape than those without; as it stands, your coil could be 3-4 times the width of the air hole in the Lemo, so the ends of the coil wouldn't be getting much direct air. I would expect this to up the TH factor.
For the 30ga build, your surface area is 94mm^2, and for the 28ga, it's 135mm^2. Those numbers in a vacuum don't mean much, but if we compare the two, the 28ga build has nearly twice the surface area. It won't exactly translate to twice the vapor, but it does probably translate to somewhat more vapor, which means more nic and more PG; more TH.
I'd say the 28ga build especially underpowered. It'll work, but the coil is definitely on the cooler end, and I like cool coils myself.
So, from what I can tell: You're using quite a bit of wire! I already knew that from the high resistances, but the 28ga one is comparable to a much lower ohm build I'm using at a significantly higher wattage. So, it's going to take more time/power to heat your coils, and they're going to want to hold on to that heat. Using less resistance would probably help you out here, since you'll need less wraps. You could easily halve your resistance at the same wattage, and everything would work out just fine.
Another reason why less resistance would be good: Your coils would be more narrow. My coils with direct airflow provide a much smoother vape than those without; as it stands, your coil could be 3-4 times the width of the air hole in the Lemo, so the ends of the coil wouldn't be getting much direct air. I would expect this to up the TH factor.
For the 30ga build, your surface area is 94mm^2, and for the 28ga, it's 135mm^2. Those numbers in a vacuum don't mean much, but if we compare the two, the 28ga build has nearly twice the surface area. It won't exactly translate to twice the vapor, but it does probably translate to somewhat more vapor, which means more nic and more PG; more TH.
I'd say the 28ga build especially underpowered. It'll work, but the coil is definitely on the cooler end, and I like cool coils myself.
i know this might sound random but my aerotank v2 with a 1.8 dual coil in it at 10.5 watts..is literally my all time perfect vape! nothing has compared to it since switching to the lemo RTA throat hit wise and completely smooth and creamy... i wish to replicate this build into my lemo using a single coil build is this even possible i would be forever in the debt of the person that could tell me.. in the aerotank v2 i use 2 mg nicotine with a 70/30 vg/pg ratio i use the same ratio and nic in my lemo and the TH is a hell of a lot more..also the aerotank fires up straight away where as my lemo builds have a slight delay and i have to draw longer to get a good vape unlike my aerotank which is basically instant..i have tried 1.1-1.8 26 gauge..1.0-2.5 28 gauge and i am now experimenting with the 30 gauge
Think about how tiny those aerotank heads are, and how thin the wire must be to fit two 3.6 ohm coils. I bet you'll come closest with 32ga if not 34ga or even 36ga, in all honesty. I'm not sure trying to replicate the aerotank vape will ever be wildly successful. RTAs provide a lot more freedom, but there are some things that will be very hard to replicate. Either way, I'd try a super thin wire at 3.6 ohms. If it does work, you still might need to adjust the wattage downward and settle for a bit less vapor.
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i will try a 3.6ohm 32 awg in the next few days and will tell you the results..if it does match the vape of the aerotank v2 at 1.8 i hope i get better flavor using my koh gen do cotton then i will finally be in vaping heaven
then i will finally be in vaping heaven i have done some research and it turns out that kanger use 34 awg wire in there dual coil heads... what would you suggest to build upon this information?
Yes.. Forget the dual coils. Do single Vertical coils, 30awg works best, but twisted 32 or 34 is good too. Wick with rayon or cotton. BUT what I found was that the answer to building the Clearo Heads, was a Kayfun. Take what ever build you come up with for your clearo.. Drop it in a Kayfun, you'll wonder why your ever bothered to rewick a coilhead.
Hmm, let me think back to my dual coil clearo rebuilding days... I want to say that the coils had an inner diameter of 1/16", which is coincidentally around 1.6mm.
I'd try this build on Steam Engine, if you've got something around 1/16'' or 1.6mm to wrap around. It'll be an 8/7 wrap (starting with the leg, count up 1 every time the wrap passes the starting point, and count to 8; that'll be 8 ridges on one side, 7 on the other, an 8/7 wrap)
That should get you pretty close to 3.6 ohms, the resistance of a single one of those Aerotank coils. You'll just have to see how similar it is, steam engine says it'll be pretty warm at 10 watts, so we'll see. You probably will want to turn the wattage down to 7 or 8. Let's take it from there, and see how that goes! If you can get 34ga, that is. Temco for sure sells it, like $5 for 100 feet, free shipping.
well..i have a result to announce.. the 3.6 ohm 30 awg coil is a near replica of the aerotank v2 but with more flavor and vapor
vaping between 11 and 15 watts.. going to try a 32 and 34 awg dual coils in the next few days and will update results- Status
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