History of E-Cigarettes and the FDA

[stols001]

Fine @Punk In Drublic , I will refrain from using the *I* word on you.

I can understand respecting laws you disagree with, I have to do it like all the time. Heck, sometimes I have trouble respecting laws I AGREE with.

I actually think the vaping thing doesn't really make sense without the whole financial aspect, because I have always felt that the US often had more "Freedom TO do XX" than many other countries I have lived in. John Rawls is an interesting philosopher who talks a lot about societies who focus more on freedom TO, which means more resource allocation, more opportunities, and more help for say, the "differently homed." I'm so sorry, I am going to use that term forever now because it amuses me so much.

I am going to guess that perhaps you haven't been around as many homeless folks as I have, but I am here to tell you that in the US at least (apart from that generation that just got TORE up by being told by a certain president to borrow a billion dollars and then created minus a million jobs) apart from THAT group, well, I have been around the homeless a LOT because they are fairly useful if you are also NOT a law abiding teen, and the majority of them are in a mental state where they often are not sure what a crime IS.

Tucson is flooded with homeless currently, and it's because they are a "secret" sanctuary city who does not want to declare and lose funding,. So, in literally EVERY park and public space they have flooded the city, and whether it is due to "unfortunate circumstances" (quite probably) it is not pleasant to watch a population who is having a hard time like, harangue you, ask for money constantly, pass out right by the swing set where children are playing.

People don't enjoy that type of environment. I certainly don't. When my son was living in downtown Tucson I was glad he had a mean scary dog because a passel of them were hanging out in the alley behind his house, eating his trash. He did not enjoy it. I do not blame him.

My husband has been homeless (by choice he was an alcoholic) and he is actually more tenderhearted toward the homeless than I am. For example I once asked him why in God's name there were not more underpasses for flooding, etc. Apparently (per the government official my husband actually asked) it was because the differently homed would nest under there, and like, weld the GRATES shut to protect their stuff. And then they drowned during monsoon season. He was not happy with my "So?" (Personally I think it was government graft but that is a whole other discussion.)

I was like a) they could manage to figure out how to find and use welding equipment. 2) They could build a pleasant nest, with all their stuff. Okay. SO, they are GROWN adults right, very resourceful in many ways? Well, then monsoon season is on THEM. They should freaking... Remember when you close things off, you can't get out. I had that down by age 3 or 4 I think.

I fully expect, the way things are going here, to be pushing a cart full of cats, muttering to myself someday UNLESS the government actually euthanizes me first for being "defective" by then but guess what? EVEN psychotic, differently homed, and all crazy, I am still responsible for my actions.

I can pretty much guarantee that a lot of homelessness is "unfortunate situations." I still don't see how that stereotypes ANYONE, actually, and I would still like an answer as to how it does.

Really.

Anna

Anna

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Toronto has a massive homeless epidemic as I am sure many large metropolises do. I have dealt with them on many occasions. Worked in soup kitchens, consulted homeless kids, which is also huge problem here in Toronto. And for the past 12 to 15 years, I’ve taken a portion out of my Christmas bonus to buy gifts and food for the homeless.

Earlier this year I had a homeless guy ask me for a cigarette – told I do not smoke and showed him my squonker saying this was a healthier alternative. He shared his interest in wanting one but couldn’t afford it. So I bought him a Vype pen with 2 cartridges. He cried with joy!

But let me elaborate on my earlier comment. I meant by stereotyping as being the homeless are not the only type of people who are purchasing age restricted products for minors. And doing so for the price of a cheap bottle of whisky. Those that do make these purchases are irresponsible adults.

 

[stols001]

That statement is more than fair. Thank you for elaborating.
Anna

 

[classwife]

Stop derailing threads and knock off the rudeness.
We don't talk with fellow members this way at this forum.


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8. Courtesy
a. Members must be polite at all times. When addressing another Forum user, you will be polite. Courteous discussion is welcome here but heated and abusive argument is not.
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You can disagree with the subject matter of a post, but never personally attack the poster - “Attack the post, not the poster”. Treat people as you would like to be treated yourself: with courtesy.
13. Message conventions
b. Off-topic digression: Stick to the topic. Do not deviate from the subject discussed in a thread as this is called off-topic (OT) posting.

 

[englishmick]

This not directed to @CMD-Ky (respect you do not wish to discuss further) but let me ask…

Do people not feel exposure is one of the contributing factors to your underage vaping epidemic? Out of sight, out of mind and to take that further, restrict the age in which you are allowed to enter these businesses. It is not a solution to your problem, but it is certainly a step toward a right direction. And certainly better than a flavour ban.

I guess allowing kids to enter vape shops was knocked on the head a long time ago. I didn't realise it was ever allowed.

I'm not sure exposure of that kind makes a difference. It could even be helpful. Make it seem like a normal part of life rather than a forbidden fruit.

Where I come from kids can go into pubs if food is sold there. When I got married in Scotland we all went to the pub afterwards, kids and all. In France I heard it's common for kids to get a glass of wine at dinner. Starting with a glass of water with a touch of wine for the youngest. You could go to jail for that in the US. If you have to wait until you're 18 to get a drink then it will be a big thrill to get one before that. If you get an occasional drink at home in a safe setting that thrill might be reduced. Or maybe not.

In any case the way these things are decided in the US has nothing to do with outcomes. Politics is money based here. If the money says ban flavors then flavors will be banned.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

I guess allowing kids to enter vape shops was knocked on the head a long time ago. I didn't realise it was ever allowed.

I'm not sure exposure of that kind makes a difference. It could even be helpful. Make it seem like a normal part of life rather than a forbidden fruit.

Where I come from kids can go into pubs if food is sold there. When I got married in Scotland we all went to the pub afterwards, kids and all. In France I heard it's common for kids to get a glass of wine at dinner. Starting with a glass of water with a touch of wine for the youngest. You could go to jail for that in the US. If you have to wait until you're 18 to get a drink then it will be a big thrill to get one before that. If you get an occasional drink at home in a safe setting that thrill might be reduced. Or maybe not.

In any case the way these things are decided in the US has nothing to do with outcomes. Politics is money based here. If the money says ban flavors then flavors will be banned.

Excellent post

Can we compare other societies with our own? Trends can be very different as well as how we are exposed to certain items along with that level of upbringing.

I look back at my youth. I had easy access to cigarettes because our laws allowed it. I did not have easy access to alcohol. Our laws at the time meant acquiring alcohol was a lesser successful rate in comparison to cigarettes. I am viewing Canada’s current tobacco laws and thinking if they were implemented back when I became addicted to cigarettes, then perhaps I may not have taken up the habit. I was exposed, heavily to cigarettes – which sparked a curiosity, thus a temptation to explore.

Vaping should be a tool to ween people off a more harmful substance. It should not be a tool for exploration to those who do not smoke. Therefore, it should be advertised and presented as such which includes mitigating exposure to minors.

 

[englishmick]

Excellent post

Can we compare other societies with our own? Trends can be very different as well as how we are exposed to certain items along with that level of upbringing.

I look back at my youth. I had easy access to cigarettes because our laws allowed it. I did not have easy access to alcohol. Our laws at the time meant acquiring alcohol was a lesser successful rate in comparison to cigarettes. I am viewing Canada’s current tobacco laws and thinking if they were implemented back when I became addicted to cigarettes, then perhaps I may not have taken up the habit. I was exposed, heavily to cigarettes – which sparked a curiosity, thus a temptation to explore.

Vaping should be a tool to ween people off a more harmful substance. It should not be a tool for exploration to those who do not smoke. Therefore, it should be advertised and presented as such which includes mitigating exposure to minors.

Agree about the cigs for sure. There were machines everywhere. We called them ... machines, another cultural difference right there. And kiosks in the train stations sold them in packs of 3 and 5, mainly to kids who couldn't afford a full ten pack.

Booze was definitely harder than that. It took a bit of work.

Vaping as a quitting tool is how it started out. Suddenly it became a big thing with teens. Not sure how that started, maybe it was the arrival of pods. But the cat is out of the bag now and there's no putting it back. There are ways teen use could be addressed but the way things work here they will step right past the hard work of dealing with the issue and go right for some grand futile gesture.