How Can This Be True???

[bcalvanese]

I've been reading and watching vid's on how brass/copper bodies create less of a voltage drop.

How can this be true?

The only thing in the path between one side of the coild and the other is the topper center pin, the device center pin, the battery, and the switch.

I can see them being made out of a more conductive material, but how does the body affect anything?

 

[VaPreis]

The tube is the conductive path between the 510 threading and the switch body. Without the tube, there is no circuit.

 

[bussdriver]

Voltage drop in the actual tube can probably be considered pretty much nil. The significant voltage drop will occur mostly in the switch and in the atomizer connections.

Voltage drop can also occur due to dirty battery terminals.

 

[Ryedan]

I've been reading and watching vid's on how brass/copper bodies create less of a voltage drop.

How can this be true?

The only thing in the path between one side of the coild and the other is the topper center pin, the device center pin, the battery, and the switch.

I can see them being made out of a more conductive material, but how does the body affect anything?

The tube is the electric path between the switch and the negative 510 connection.

It is however only a very small difference. Choice of battery, age of battery and contact surface cleanliness are much bigger factors.

 

[bcalvanese]

Now I see.

Thanks.

 

[milescadre]

yea, I know my nemesis has more of a voltage drop because it has segments and whatnot, but tbh the drop isnt worth mentioning vs, say, my hades...

 

[Singaw]

The material a mod is made of has practically nothing to do with how well a mod works, it just has to be conductive to complete the circuit. Whenever you connect a coil to a battery and push the switch you form a complete circuit, and the path of the flowing charge is through the inside of the battery, as well as through the coil. The electricity does not flow through the mod because batteries are ionic conductors in which electrons flow in both directions at the same time. The material in the path from the positive terminal of the battery to the coil affects voltage drop while anything else would just be false advertising.

Note: A batteries internal resistance also plays a big part in voltage drop.

 

[chesty]

The electricity does not flow through the mod because batteries are ionic conductors in which electrons flow in both directions at the same time.

citation required, i believe electrons travel through the switch at the bottom of the mod, and through the mod, that's why the switch sometimes gets hot, and why dirty threads can make a difference.

 

[Roxxette]

citation required, i believe electrons travel through the switch at the bottom of the mod, and through the mod, that's why the switch sometimes gets hot, and why dirty threads can make a difference.

I can def say that a good cleaning on the threads does make a difference, what i don't understand is why they get this black dirt build inside sometimes i have my GG for example (only replace the battery when needed) and i take it a part when im polishing the contact and always see that on the threads.

 

[tj99959]

The tube is the atomizer ground ckt, and can in some cases cause as much as 1/2v difference. I can tell you from experience that switching from an all SS mod to a all copper or brass mod will make you add a wrap or two to your coils.

The idea that the material doesn't matter comes from using regulated PV's where the PV just compensates for the voltage loss. So it doesn't matter. With a mechanical it does matter, and every place that you save a hundredth of a volt adds up.

 

[joesquid]

The material a mod is made of has practically nothing to do with how well a mod works, it just has to be conductive to complete the circuit. Whenever you connect a coil to a battery and push the switch you form a complete circuit, and the path of the flowing charge is through the inside of the battery, as well as through the coil. The electricity does not flow through the mod because batteries are ionic conductors in which electrons flow in both directions at the same time. The material in the path from the positive terminal of the battery to the coil affects voltage drop while anything else would just be false advertising.

Note: A batteries internal resistance also plays a big part in voltage drop.

Hmmmm....don't know where to start. Current on flows in one direction. Funny thing is in the U.S., we teach it flows from - to +. I taught some Aussies that told me in Australia, they were taught it flows from + to -. Regardless, it cannot flow in both directions at the same time. If you believe it only flows from the positive side of the battery, try holding the battery in place with end cap off and firing your mod. Won't work because there is no path from the positive side of your battery to the negative. Also, internal battery resistance plays no part in figuring voltage drop. It is the source.

 

[skoony]

Hmmmm....don't know where to start. Current on flows in one direction. Funny thing is in the U.S., we teach it flows from - to +. I taught some Aussies that told me in Australia, they were taught it flows from + to -. Regardless, it cannot flow in both directions at the same time. If you believe it only flows from the positive side of the battery, try holding the battery in place with end cap off and firing your mod. Won't work because there is no path from the positive side of your battery to the negative. Also, internal battery resistance plays no part in figuring voltage drop. It is the source.

we went through the - +,+- thing in tech school. electrons flow from the - terminal through the circuit to the + terminal. in European countries to avoid confusion they teach that electrons flow out the + to the negative. either way the formula's work. its more important from an engineering and circuit design point of view. the negative or cathode has a shortage of electrons as they are flowing out from there.hence the term negative. less electrons there. the positive or anode has electrons flowing into it.hence the term positive. it has excess electrons. stop the current flow every thing will balance out.
regards
mike

 

[Singaw]

As I already stated batteries are a ionic conductor and therefore do not follow the same rules as electricity would in an electrical wire.

WHICH WAY DOES THE "ELECTRICITY" REALLY FLOW?

You are assuming that batteries pump out the same voltage under load and with no load, this is absolutely not true because the battery itself has internal resistance. When figuring out voltage drop we must consider the battery as a resistor in series. We can prove batteries play a large role in figuring voltage drop with two simple tests.... Hook a atomizer up directly to a battery and measure the voltage drop or check the voltage drop on a mod/atomizer combo with a new battery and an old worn out battery with the same voltage. The atomizer hooked directly to the battery will show a voltage drop and the old worn out battery will show a larger voltage drop than a new battery.

Note: I don't believe voltage only travels from the positive terminal of a battery.... That just happens to be where we place the load, in this case an atomizer coil.

 

[jswag5]

all i can say is wow. i have an electronics engineering background and its interesting to hear some of the falsities.

In any dc circuit(direct current, meaning one way) I.E. your mod. electrons flow from the negative terminal(bottom of the battery) through the switch(if a bottom firing) around the shell of the mod, to the outside of the 510 connection, through your coil to the positive pin of the connector(if a top firing then through the switch) and to the positive post(top) of the battery.

the best mod would have little to zero resistance. since all conductors have resistance the best mods would be made of the least resistant material(silver, gold, copper, brass). aluminum and stainless are good conductors, but it is not the best

 

[joesquid]

Interesting theories on a amateur hobbiest website. So when you are figuring voltage drop, what value to you assign to the battery? How do you measure it?

 

[bussdriver]

I see a lot of people using screw-on voltmeters to measure the voltage with no load. Then they screw on an atomizer and push the button and take a reading of the voltage with the atomizer firing. The difference is what they call the voltage drop of the mod.

Problem: Any voltage source will sag under load. The open circuit voltage of a power supply is always higher than the loaded voltage. This can't be attributed to the voltage drop of the mod; it is power supply voltage sag.

I've yet to figure out a way to measure the voltage drop of the mod due to mod resistance.

 

[Singaw]

Interesting theories on a amateur hobbiest website.

I suppose you failed to notice that the article was written by the Research Engineer on staff at the University of Washington in Seattle.

 

[joesquid]

I see a lot of people using screw-on voltmeters to measure the voltage with no load. Then they screw on an atomizer and push the button and take a reading of the voltage with the atomizer firing. The difference is what they call the voltage drop of the mod.

Problem: Any voltage source will sag under load. The open circuit voltage of a power supply is always higher than the loaded voltage. This can't be attributed to the voltage drop of the mod; it is power supply voltage sag.

I've yet to figure out a way to measure the voltage drop of the mod due to mod resistance.

Seems to me all you need to do is build a copper pipe the size of your battery with end caps soldered on. Wrap the pipe in electrical tape so it doesn't short to the side of the mod. Insert the pipe, press the fire button an measure the resistance from the positive terminal to the threads of the 510 connector. Once you know the resistance the rest is simple math.

 

[tj99959]

I see a lot of people using screw-on voltmeters to measure the voltage with no load. Then they screw on an atomizer and push the button and take a reading of the voltage with the atomizer firing. The difference is what they call the voltage drop of the mod.

Problem: Any voltage source will sag under load. The open circuit voltage of a power supply is always higher than the loaded voltage. This can't be attributed to the voltage drop of the mod; it is power supply voltage sag.

I've yet to figure out a way to measure the voltage drop of the mod due to mod resistance.

In reality we use "comparative values" when measuring the efficiency of a PV. If we use the same power source (battery), and same resister (topper) in two or more PV's we then can see the "comparative" voltage loss of a specific PV or a single component of a PV.

Same PV, same battery, same topper, different battery tube:
Brass tube

SS tube

So there is a real difference of 0.12v between the two tubes

 

[Wow1420]

As I already stated batteries are a ionic conductor and therefore do not follow the same rules as electricity would in an electrical wire.

WHICH WAY DOES THE "ELECTRICITY" REALLY FLOW?

You are assuming that batteries pump out the same voltage under load and with no load, this is absolutely not true because the battery itself has internal resistance. When figuring out voltage drop we must consider the battery as a resistor in series. We can prove batteries play a large role in figuring voltage drop with two simple tests.... Hook a atomizer up directly to a battery and measure the voltage drop or check the voltage drop on a mod/atomizer combo with a new battery and an old worn out battery with the same voltage. The atomizer hooked directly to the battery will show a voltage drop and the old worn out battery will show a larger voltage drop than a new battery.

Note: I don't believe voltage only travels from the positive terminal of a battery.... That just happens to be where we place the load, in this case an atomizer coil.

The material a mod is made of has practically nothing to do with how well a mod works, it just has to be conductive to complete the circuit. Whenever you connect a coil to a battery and push the switch you form a complete circuit, and the path of the flowing charge is through the inside of the battery, as well as through the coil. The electricity does not flow through the mod because batteries are ionic conductors in which electrons flow in both directions at the same time. The material in the path from the positive terminal of the battery to the coil affects voltage drop while anything else would just be false advertising.

Note: A batteries internal resistance also plays a big part in voltage drop.

Even that linked article does not support what you stated. It says that what goes on inside the battery is different from the electrical flow in metals. It also says , “Of course in metal wires outside the battery, the real particle flow is only from negative to positive."