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How do these battery graphs translate for ecig use?

Discussion in 'APV and Mods Discussion' started by PinoyBoy, Nov 18, 2013.

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  1. PinoyBoy

    PinoyBoy Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 4, 2013
    WA State, USA
    I'm sure many of us here know and have seen the reviews from lygte-info.dk.

    I already have a general idea of which batteries to buy, so I'm not looking for recommendations on what batteries to get. I was wondering, how does the Discharge, Time graphs from that site translate for our ecig use?

    For example:
    [​IMG]

    I mainly vape at 1 ohm, so at 4.2v, that would be 5.0A. The chart above shows that the expected battery life would be about 17 minutes. That 17 minutes is from a continuous draw? Since I usually run my batteries to about 3.6v or 3.5v before I switch them out, based on this graph, I should be getting about 10 minutes of life out of this particular battery.

    In 10 minutes there is 600 seconds. At 4 seconds a puff, that would technically translate to 150 puffs. Is that a decent general guideline to follow?
     
  2. vapero

    vapero Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 13, 2013
    monterrey,mexico
    sounds interesting but I have nothing to add
     
  3. ZW99GT

    ZW99GT Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 31, 2012
    DFW
    Those reviews tell us exactly what we need to know about a battery. Obviously, you want to know the max current for safety reasons. You can pretty much tell if a cell is going to be a good choice for us vapers by looking at the 5A discharge capacity. If a cell has the same capacity at .5A that is does at 5A, it's going to be a good choice for your needs at 1ohm load.

    Most discharge time graphs are linear enough for approximations from 4.2V to 3.5V, so you're getting a solid 70-80% of the capacity listed. If one cell has 2000mah at 5A, it will give more "puffs" than another cell that has 1600mah at 5A. Assuming you choose a safe chemistry and stay under the amp limits, the "best" battery will be the one with the most capacity at 5A.
     
  4. Thrasher

    Thrasher ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 28, 2012
    Madeira beach, Fla
    the problem with these graphs in my belief is they should just be used to get a general idea of overall time under a certain load. but should in no way taken as fact battery a is that much better then battery b. an example of this is the new panyb shows a 10% increase in Mah yet many users notice they get much more actual time then 10% under load.

    several factors come into play with these charts. the fact they stress the battery from start to finish with set amperage draw does not take into account the way we vape.

    there are things like thermal resistance changes when they get hot changes the discharge as the internal resistance changes, then things like resting voltage, where a battery will relax a little when not stressed and recover a minute amount of charge.
    then there is just how well the battery is designed to run at a certain discharge curve.

    also as far as mods are concerned as the charge drops the amperage draw changes as well and in the case of a regulated mod the amperage draw actually increases as the battery dies off, because of the voltage regulation circuit. in a mechanical the curve should actually be longer as the battery dies the amperage dies with it.
    these charts are a decent way to get an idea of the overall discharge curve but cant be relied upon for estimating time of life other then saying i should get around an hour..
    this draw could be 4 that one could be 6 and that throws the estimate off, then you have things like how efficient is the actual regulation circuit etc. somethings you will never be able to account for just pulling 5 straight amps for 75 minutes.
     
  5. dr g

    dr g Moved On ECF Veteran

    Mar 12, 2012
    Paradise
    These charts are mostly useful for comparing batteries to other batteries tested in the same way. The numbers can't be taken as absolutes since the amp draw changes over time, as thrasher noted.
     
  6. Traver

    Traver Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Oct 28, 2010
    WV
    These charts just a guide to compare batteries tested the same way. The charts won't you whether or not it a good battery. There are other things to consider such as life cycle. Do you want a battery only last 6 months or would you rather have the lasts a couple of years. I think we all have some experience with Quality control. You probably want the battery you buy today to be is good as the last one you had instead of hoping that the one you just paid for works as well. This where reputation comes in.
     
  7. dr g

    dr g Moved On ECF Veteran

    Mar 12, 2012
    Paradise
    While it does not measure quality per se, performance and quality are positively correlated.
     
  8. Rader2146

    Rader2146 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 11, 2012
    Waco, TX
    As Dr G said, they are good for comparison and not a direct correlation to our use (I might, or might not, be working on something a little more tailored to our style, but it's only in the early stages;))


    Most of us spark chaser's spend our time on that site in the Comparator.
    Battery test-review 18650 comparator

    You get images like below that can tell you many things depending on what you are looking for in a battery.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Thrasher

    Thrasher ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 28, 2012
    Madeira beach, Fla
  10. dr g

    dr g Moved On ECF Veteran

    Mar 12, 2012
    Paradise
  11. Traver

    Traver Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Oct 28, 2010
    WV
    Just curious, does this mean you are going test at higher amps and pulse the current?
     
  12. Thrasher

    Thrasher ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 28, 2012
    Madeira beach, Fla
    yea i did last night dang if i cant remember where i think both of the batteries i linked were around 5 amps and its an ICR anyways,

    when using the comparator these are two facts they dont include - the amp rating and type of battery i like the panasonics and a few batteries will beat them no problem but then you look and none of them are high drain batteries and many of them dont even have any tests higher then 5 amps so again this is even more reason to be careful when weighing a purchase based on simple graphs.

    and then add to that we are faced with so many batteries out now that arent even on the graph how do we know if those missing arent better?

    if i didnt know better to check i would be stocking up on the red sanyos no problem lol
     
  13. Rader2146

    Rader2146 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 11, 2012
    Waco, TX
    Was this intended for me?
     
  14. Traver

    Traver Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Oct 28, 2010
    WV
    I thought someone said that they were going to test batteries under conditions that are more relevant to vapors. Going back and rereading this thread I don't see it. I must have had two threads open at the same time and posted to the wrong one. I look at these graphs whenever someone mentions a new battery and they are useful as far they go but limited for for the way we use these batteries. It would be great if there were tests that reflect the way we use these batteries.
     
  15. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    This comment brings up an interesting point.

    These batteries were not originally intended for what we are using them for. In fact, I have read that Panasonic, Sanyo, Sony, and Samsung, don't even like the fact that we're using these batteries because they were not intended for single cell, unprotected use in any device. The fact that they're available can be attributed to modders of flashlights, pen lasers, and bicycle electronics. A demand formed around those markets and it was filled by various folks, and then e-cigs came along and the demand skyrocketed.

    Hybrid battery technology came along primarily due to research for use in hybrid automobiles, and we as vapors are reaping the benefits from that for our uses. We may just now be seeing some of these batteries which have been designed more specifically for APV useage.
     
  16. Rader2146

    Rader2146 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 11, 2012
    Waco, TX
    That was me...
    I plan to test with a fixed resistance to simulate a mech mod and at fixed wattage to simulate the VV and VW mods. I had not given much thought to pulsing the load, but is should be pretty easy with a 555 timer and a MOSFET.

    Like I said, it's only in the planning stages. It's about a $120 project (mainly for a new multimeter with USB interface) and the holidays are taking financial priority.
     
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