How far can the government go?

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twgbonehead

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This is a perfect example of the "slippery slope".

A long while ago, Police and Fire departments started requiring that Policemen and Firemen not smoke, and maintain healthy BMI ratios (so obesity was also incorporated). There was a lawsuit, raised by a fireman, claiming that forbidding him from smoking, when he was at home and not on the clock was an infringement of his rights and privacy.

He lost, because a) the department already had other physical requirements that were required to get and keep the job, and b) although the policy required that new hires have an acceptable BMI and be non-smokers, they also incorporated a lengthy "quit and get fit" program for current employees, so they had several years to be non-smokers and lose the weight. Additionally, the only ones it applied to were those "on the line" - clericals and administrative personnel were exempt. The fire department won because it could demonstrate a clear reason why the new rules were an essential part of the employees suitability for the job.

Unfortunately, that set a precedent, and since then, the factors involved in the original case are now assumed - i.e. that any employer can discriminate against smokers, even if they don't smoke at work and if physical fitness is not a critical part of their job. Obesity, not so much (because in many cases obesity is caused by other health problems, and in at least some cases is recognized as a protected disability).
 

AndriaD

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It seems that our government has forgotten a little moment in history call the "French Revolution."

You all remember - it's when the people of France rose up and CUT THE HEADS OFF OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAD LOST TOUCH WITH THEIR MANDATE.







Are ya listenin'?

I've been saying this for a while now. So, where do we get guillotines?

Vive le revolution! Let's start the head-chopping with Stanton GlANTZ, and then the FDA, and the CDC. And then all the other 'public health' fools.

Andria
 

bluecat

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This is a perfect example of the "slippery slope".

A long while ago, Police and Fire departments started requiring that Policemen and Firemen not smoke, and maintain healthy BMI ratios (so obesity was also incorporated). There was a lawsuit, raised by a fireman, claiming that forbidding him from smoking, when he was at home and not on the clock was an infringement of his rights and privacy.

He lost, because a) the department already had other physical requirements that were required to get and keep the job, and b) although the policy required that new hires have an acceptable BMI and be non-smokers, they also incorporated a lengthy "quit and get fit" program for current employees, so they had several years to be non-smokers and lose the weight. Additionally, the only ones it applied to were those "on the line" - clericals and administrative personnel were exempt. The fire department won because it could demonstrate a clear reason why the new rules were an essential part of the employees suitability for the job.

Unfortunately, that set a precedent, and since then, the factors involved in the original case are now assumed - i.e. that any employer can discriminate against smokers, even if they don't smoke at work and if physical fitness is not a critical part of their job. Obesity, not so much (because in many cases obesity is caused by other health problems, and in at least some cases is recognized as a protected disability).

Was that prior to the bribe, err cash grab... dangit, settlement for Medicare expenses?
 

Strings

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One lil thinng, for those speaking revolution

Great: we rise up, and oust the idiots. What, exactly, do we replace them with?

Usually, I hear "the Constitution, of course!". And that's a great idea. Now... head to a local lawyer's office, and ask if you can take a peek at the US Code. Usually, it's a set of books that takes up a LOT of space. And not all those laws are bad ones. Who decides what to keep, and what to toss?
 

AndriaD

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One lil thinng, for those speaking revolution

Great: we rise up, and oust the idiots. What, exactly, do we replace them with?

Usually, I hear "the Constitution, of course!". And that's a great idea. Now... head to a local lawyer's office, and ask if you can take a peek at the US Code. Usually, it's a set of books that takes up a LOT of space. And not all those laws are bad ones. Who decides what to keep, and what to toss?

You're exactly right. And if we have to depend on lawyers...? That tells you right there that anything new will be rotten to the core. I think that's one of the primary problems with gov't, most of the people in it are LAWYERS! Who don't give a crap about the law, but about circumventing it!

Andria
 

Sgt.Rock

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Snugglepooter: so what you're saying is that the US Code, in it's entirety, should be thrown out?

Not trying to be a pudding stick here, but actually asking for your opinion.

IMO yes. What I would call a good start.

Followed by what Heinlein's future history referred to as "The year the hung the lawyers"

BTW.. I'm not a "wet behind the ears" kid who dreams of pie in the sky. Been breathing air since 1955
 
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Brandon David

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My employer's insurance was supposed to increase 50% per month for those who had nicotine in their systems back in October and could only be dropped back to the normal rate after being nicotine free for 12 months and going through a 3 day "dangers of tobacco" counseling class. For reasons unknown, the rates never increased.

I'm not complaining but it is definitely strange.
 

Oberon75

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What about overweight people? I'd say that would be nuisance to employers and health benefits. Lets just set up some rooms at the local shelters for smokers and overweight people, they are unwanted and undeserving, and possibly bad for business.
Especially considering the western diet is responsible for more deathsand health problems then anything.
 

towelie

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The US code is merely codification of statutes. To get a more realistic grasp of the sheer volume of what "laws" are check out the Statutes at Large in a local federal repository. This is JUST the legislative branch. Then check case law and Executive Regulations, pretty voluminous as well. imho elastic currency is the glue binding all this together. Contract adhesive.
 

Bman1959

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What about overweight people? I'd say that would be nuisance to employers and health benefits. Lets just set up some rooms at the local shelters for smokers and overweight people, they are unwanted and undeserving, and possibly bad for business.

I would not say they are bad for business. Go into any Wally World at the first of the month.
 

towelie

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