How long can the batteries last ?

[v1John]

batteries should last several months if I charge them daily, I think.
But how long do they last if I build a collection of them ?
Do they have an expiration year if I don't use some of them ?

I'm aware that the juice can last a couple years. But can batteries last longer than that, will little or no usage?

 

[Mary Kay]

I started buying batts in Oct. 09, I have some of the first ones I bought still in use. I have about 20 batts in different sizes and of course colors in both manual and auto. So far I had one come in DOA (replaced) ,one I vaped to death (Shorty, old style in pink) and one that I thought was dead..but since I am using it tonight I guess it was playing possum.

Not bad.

 

[redrhino]

I'm not a battery expert....So i can't answer that question...But as far as the expiration date goes....You have to check with your supplier on that one....

 

[v1John]

...
and one that I thought was dead..but since I am using it tonight I guess it was playing possum.

Not bad.

It was playing possum! hahaha .
Interesting.

 

[jeffree]

I've read in the forum a few times that the batts will last about 6 months. Don't know how use or anything affects it, or if it's even close. In fact, why am I even posting this, right?

 

[alter.ego]

Li-ion batterys have a certian number of charge 'cycles' before they start to fade away... if you've ever owned a cell phone that sees any deccent amount of use for more than a few months then you know that it starts to hold less and less of a charge. the more you drain it before recharging, the fewer cycles you'll get.

 

[Adrenalynn]

Batteries self-discharge and need to be kept charged.

Several years is probably doable as long as they're charged every few months.

 

[KitKit]

Adrenalynn I have many 510 batts that I no longer use, are you saying I should charge them anyway to keep them from going bad?

 

[Adrenalynn]

eYup. If they self discharge below a safe level, no charger you're likely to have will be able to charge them again safely.

 

[leeshor]

You can only charge a rechargeable so many times before it begins to not hold the same charge. Of the original 4 VK batteries I started with in Oct. I still have 2 in use, that get charged daily, but they're only holding 1/4 of the charge they did when they were new.

My guess is that any individual daily use VK battery from "way back then" might have a useful life of 6 months or more but YMMV. This assumes proper care and feeding.

 

[jjujju]

My 510 batts seem to charge up faster and drain faster than they did when brand spankin' new...

I have a 901 batt that seems to be dead... I'm in mourning. How did you "revive" yours, MaryKay???

I think I just lost my FIRST atty, too. No spark or sizzle. I can't believe it's gone... *sniff*

 

[Adrenalynn]

Agreed, Lee.

My ~4mo old batteries are needing replacement for short life. But they get charged 2x/day. That's ~240 charges = very close to the expected 300 charge service life

 

[jamvector]

Thanks for posting this thread, I have been wondering the same thing. Sorry if this is too technical, but any clarification from one of you gurus would be most appreciated:

Li Ion batteries, do not like to be drained, have no "charge memory", but will lose charge capacity over time. I would like to know the advantages / disadvantages of: 1. Charging each battery every day overnight, 2. leaving (or effectively storing) an unused battery on the charger for days - weeks, and 3. using a battery until it flashes low before charging again.

I assume that all of the available chargers detect the presence of a battery by a current draw, and when the current draw reaches a small threshold level, the charging circuit disconnects itself from the battery indicating blue or green "fully charged" condition. If you leave the battery on the charger for an extended time, ie days, when the battery starts to lose charge, it will try to draw current and turn the charging circuit back on. In light of the fact that there is a finite amount of recharging cycles for Li Ion before end of life, I'm worried about leaving them in the charger as much as I tend to, since the charging cycle rate may be shortening the life of the battery.

I have already reviewed some info from Lithium-ion battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, but not sure if V4L uses "dumb" or "smart" Li Ion technology. I hope this makes sense, please reply if you have better info or other advice; Thanks!

 

[Adrenalynn]

Hey Jam,

For long-term storage, I'd think tossing them some place cool and dark, you know - the typical recommendation (dark really means nothing since they're encased anyway) and forgetting about them for a couple months, then bringing them out and charging them to full - rinse, lather, repeat - is going to give you the longest storage life.

300 charges, give or take, is the expected service life. The more it's a surface charge, the higher that number is going to be. That's really an "average service span" number. I tend to deep cycle mine, so I'm on the lower end. If you only charged them once every three months, you could conceivably expect years of storage life.

I leave mine on the charger when not in use. They're cheap and disposable. Replacing them every quarter is fine by me.

The mechanism on the charger is correct as you describe.

 

[jamvector]

Hey Jam,

For long-term storage, I'd think tossing them some place cool and dark, you know - the typical recommendation (dark really means nothing since they're encased anyway) and forgetting about them for a couple months, then bringing them out and charging them to full - rinse, lather, repeat - is going to give you the longest storage life.

300 charges, give or take, is the expected service life. The more it's a surface charge, the higher that number is going to be. That's really an "average service span" number. I tend to deep cycle mine, so I'm on the lower end. If you only charged them once every three months, you could conceivably expect years of storage life.

I leave mine on the charger when not in use. They're cheap and disposable. Replacing them every quarter is fine by me.

The mechanism on the charger is correct as you describe.

Thanks Lynn, I was hoping you would chime in. What's your take about the concern that was cited in wiki for "dumb" Li Ion where the self-disharge is a permanent loss in capacity vs temporary? (This is down further in the wiki Li Ion advantages section).

For context, the main reason I'm asking is not because I have a problem replacing them, but am trying to stock up right now with xl manual batteries that work very very well with the current cartos, which I intend to keep for long term use. As you have stated very well in other posts, "advancements" in the V4L product line have their downside. The current premium carto / xl manual batt combo is working to perfection right now, and I'm worried about batts bought down the road may not match as well with the cartos I will be cycling for a long time.

Thanks again for all the excellent advice and humor you provide

 

[Adrenalynn]

I'd honestly rather have my eyeballs gouged out with a melonballer than read a wikipedia "article"... I just checked battery university which, for the most part, tends to jive with my experiences - so I'll reference it instead. Have you had a read through: How to prolong lithium-based batteries yet?

 

[jamvector]

I'd honestly rather have my eyeballs gouged out with a melonballer than read a wikipedia "article"... I just checked battery university which, for the most part, tends to jive with my experiences - so I'll reference it instead. Have you had a read through: How to prolong lithium-based batteries yet?

Thanks again, this is a GREAT summary - I know what you mean about wiki, but someone had posted it on another thread a while back and it popped back into my head. What this means in the context of my question and to help others out there that happen to have a similar use pattern as I, consider the following:

I have two reg batteries at work that I keep constantly charged, and two xl's for the car and home that I also keep constantly charged (I also use the PT at home, and sometimes older batts depending on old cart vs new premiums).

The danger with this approach is that all the batts may slowly and consistently lose capacity at a more rapid rate due to simply operating them at room temperature (or higher like in the car during summer) over time. What I will now try to increase the longevity of all the batts is to use just one at work, and one at home, recharge when they flash, and store the other two in the refrigerator at about half charge capacity for at least a month or so before exchanging (use the ones from the fridge, put the ones I was using in the fridge for a month). This will be a little hard for me because when I first started vaping in fall of 2009 with a crappy 4081, I developed a bad habit of always having two PV's on me at all times. I think I now have enough confidence in V4L after 3 months to move on and trust one at a time.

In summary, these devices have a shelf life regardless of use patterns due to internal oxidation, so it doesn't make much sense to buy them in advance if you only intend to use them months down the road.

 

[v1John]

Adrenalynn, I like your idea of the quarterly schedule. It could be Jan-March for some, or it could be seasonal for others, such as batteries for the winter, spring, etc.

By the way, is it possible that they would be able to be recycled sometime in the future, or easily restored by some subsidiary? The number of V4L battery type vapers will likely continue to keep growing.

 

[Adrenalynn]

Jam, agreed. But the shelf life is longer than the service life for most. But given battery technology marching on, I'd have trouble bringing myself to stockpile them or something...

John - as far as recycling goes - they're largely "consumed" in the process. Current rule of thumb is to toss them in salt water (putting a load on them and draining them in the salt water) until dead-dead, then toss 'em in the trash. They're not so incredibly toxic as other chemistries, and there's really not much there to recycle. Recovery cost is waaaaay too high for what you'd get back with the heavy-metal chemistries.

 

[Mary Kay]

I figured it was dead since it wouldn't do anything but stick on. It drove me nuts..so I put it the dead..but I can't let go yet box. Once in a while I will charge it and lo and behold..it's working again! I did notice it was begining to stick on..so it is chargig and then back into rotation..
BTW this is an old batt, it was one of Mikes.