How to Increase Flavor and TH with DIDs and Provari?

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Two months in DIDS and Provari and things are working better than expected. Several questions:

  1. Hot spots and shorts are part of the game , but after a day or so they resolve?
  2. 325SS and 32g Kanthal- How can you improve flavor and TH? Flavor and TH are weaker than my tanks, which I have cleaned and stored.
  3. Any ideas keeping thing upright in the car? I travel for work and spend lots of time in the car.
  4. Have had great luck with the DIDs (Greek) are there other Attys that are available and that are so much better that I should think of adding one?

Any help is apprectiated, vaping since the end of August, dropped the C-Killers immediatly and have not looked back.
 

Kemosabe

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i saw someone post earlier that real-deal cobras are available. i'll try to find the link.

hot spots do not resolve as far as i know. they get worse and pop the coil in my experience.

flavor and TH are the two things i have. my vapor production leaves somehting to be desired. sorry i cant help there.

as far as car uprightedness, i use the cup holder. if yours is too large, stuff a tiny towel in there. thats what i do.
 

EDO

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Flavor and vapor improve greatly if all your coils are lighting up at the same time and in the same way and you don't have any hot or coild coils.....meaning you have a perfectly adjusted/wrapped coil. For leaning how to adjust the coils perfectly see zen's video on provape. To learn how to wrap perfect coils I would recommend the drill bit method.
 

j4mmin42

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I haven't done my formal review yet, but I've tried a lot of the high end gear...and there's only one device that was worth paying good money for. In fact, it was SO good that I ended up buying two of them, and that is the iHybrid.

I stay away from VV devices with genesis systems because the good ones (like the Provari) are touchy as hell, especially with 28 gauge kanthal (which is light years ahead of 32 gauge in terms of performance).
 

Rule62

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I use Genesis types on my Provaris, with no trouble. But I like to keep my coils at least 2.0 ohm. I'm not a fan of low resistance coils. I use 32ga Kanthal A1. As for keeping them upright in the car, I have a custom fitted partially used roll of TP, sized to fit perfectly in the cup holder. The Provari stands up in the tube. A little redneck, but it works.
 

j4mmin42

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I use Genesis types on my Provaris, with no trouble. But I like to keep my coils at least 2.0 ohm. I'm not a fan of low resistance coils. I use 32ga Kanthal A1. As for keeping them upright in the car, I have a custom fitted partially used roll of TP, sized to fit perfectly in the cup holder. The Provari stands up in the tube. A little redneck, but it works.

My toyota has these little holes directly behind (but still a part of) the cupholders, sized perfectly to fit most big-batt mods. The holes can be made bigger or smaller by adjusting the cupholders...it's like they KNEW that e-cig users would need them in the future or something... LOL
 

Pooladdict247

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From my experience, it takes alot of coil wrapping to get the "perfect" coil every time. Ive probably wrapped hundreds of coils and sometimes it still doesn't taste right. I sometimes will just pull the coil n wick out and re-oxidize the wick just to make sure its completely oxidized, you can never over oxidize. Once you get it right you will know. As far as not getting TH and flavor better than a carto tank, something has to be wrong with your coil/wick setup. Some genesis devices have airier draws than others, but thats just personal preference of the user on which one is preferred. My provari n DID is my daily workhorse that goes with me everyday in my truck. I made my old cheapo cupholder ashtray into my mod holder. Works great and holds my setup nice n snug ;)
IMG_20120830_134222.jpg

Stick with it jay, it takes a while working and learning with any genesis on a provari to get it down. There's alot of vids out there of different methods of oxidizing/coil wrapping, you just gotta find out which works best for you. Main thing is your staying off the stinkies:thumbs:
 

j4mmin42

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Can you explain a bit more here?

With low-resistance coils on advanced VV devices, you tend to get a lot of error codes after wrapping a new coil. If you take the same atty and stick it on a less-complex device (even something like a V1 Lavatube), the atty will work just fine. I think it has something to do with very, very slight fluctuations in current (micro-shorts? lol) that devices like the Provari can pick up on, but other devices miss entirely. It has to do with the interaction between the coil and the SS wick, and he fact that SS will never be a "perfect" insulator- it's technically almost an impossibility.

I've got a DUD with a 1.3 ohm coil right now that works perfectly on my Lavatube, but on my Varitube, it constantly throws me the "flashing screen" and refuses to fire. The coil itself is perfect, and there are no major shorts- the Varitube reads the correct resistance and everything, but refuses to fire it.

I guess it depends on how much of a perfectionist you are. Is a genesis atty on a provari a great vape? Of course it is. But getting it to work correctly can be a pain in the @$$.

Edit: Also, if you have major problems with the TH and vapor production with 32 gauge Kanthal, you might want to try 28 gauge. Just be aware that the potential for problems is a bit higher because of the fact that you'll be dealing with many more wraps per coil, and a much lower resistance than the 32 gauge. People like to say 28 is easier to work with- but it really isn't. It's like a high-performance sports car: when it's running well, it's the best experience possible; When it breaks down, it can be a nightmare, or worse, it can be dangerous.
 
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Rule62

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Can you explain a bit more here?

Provaris don't deal well with low resistance coils. The Version 1 Provaris had an amp limit of 2.5A, and the lowest voltage setting was 3.3V, making anything below 1.5 ohms useless. Version 2 have an amp limit of 3.5A, and a lowest voltage setting of 2.9V, which makes anything below about .83 ohms unusable.
 

j4mmin42

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Provaris don't deal well with low resistance coils. The Version 1 Provaris had an amp limit of 2.5A, and the lowest voltage setting was 3.3V, making anything below 1.5 ohms useless. Version 2 have an amp limit of 3.5A, and a lowest voltage setting of 2.9V, which makes anything below about .83 ohms unusable.

You're right- but I think it goes a little deeper than this, to how the protection circuitry functions and how sensitive it is. My V1 Lavatube also has an amp limit of 2.5, but my Varitube (current limit of 5 amps) is the one that's touchy.

Edit: After a day of use and 5 minutes of adjustment on a different PV, that 1.3 ohm 28 gauge coil now fires perfectly on the Varitube. Looks like it just needed some crude fine tuning (e.g. nasty buildup between wick and coils).
 

Rule62

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You're right- but I think it goes a little deeper than this, to how the protection circuitry functions and how sensitive it is. My V1 Lavatube also has an amp limit of 2.5, but my Varitube (current limit of 5 amps) is the one that's touchy.

Edit: After a day of use and 5 minutes of adjustment on a different PV, that 1.3 ohm 28 gauge coil now fires perfectly on the Varitube. Looks like it just needed some crude fine tuning (e.g. nasty buildup between wick and coils).

I don't have any experience with Lavatubes. So I can't say. I have both Version 1 and Version 2 Provaris. I like to set them up so that I don't go much above 2 amps, and vape at ~10 watts or less, depending on the juice. So I make my coils at 2.2 to 2.4 ohms.
 

j4mmin42

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I don't have any experience with Lavatubes. So I can't say. I have both Version 1 and Version 2 Provaris. I like to set them up so that I don't go much above 2 amps, and vape at ~10 watts or less, depending on the juice. So I make my coils at 2.2 to 2.4 ohms.

Interesting. Yeah, if I ran Provaris (I don't), I would probably follow suit and build higher-ohm coils. Although, my 1.3 ohm DUD coil is already a 7/8 wrap of 28 gauge, so it would be tough to see how I could ever make a 2 ohm coil out of the same stuff... ;)
 

Rule62

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Interesting. Yeah, if I ran Provaris (I don't), I would probably follow suit and build higher-ohm coils. Although, my 1.3 ohm DUD coil is already a 7/8 wrap of 28 gauge, so it would be tough to see how I could ever make a 2 ohm coil out of the same stuff... ;)

No, you probably couldn't, with 28ga. It's about 6 wraps with 32ga. Lately I've been fooling around with the Sigelei VW. So far, working very well.
 

Pooladdict247

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Have to agree with the provari and lower resistance. They just dont like it, too much of a hassle. I remember how long it took to wrap my first 8/9 wrap with 28, works great but its just not for VV devices IMO. 28 is if you want to delve into the extreme which will require a hybrid or mechanical mod. I got a 3/4 28 on my cobalt which I love but could never do with any provari, unless one day they make my dreams come true and create a 5 amp version. I do think power regulation is the be all end all tho. Just waiting on evolv's DNA20 chip to come out, then I can create my 10ml 26650 power regulated hybrid and can have the best of both worlds:D
 

j4mmin42

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Have to agree with the provari and lower resistance. They just dont like it, too much of a hassle. I remember how long it took to wrap my first 8/9 wrap with 28, works great but its just not for VV devices IMO. 28 is if you want to delve into the extreme which will require a hybrid or mechanical mod. I got a 3/4 28 on my cobalt which I love but could never do with any provari, unless one day they make my dreams come true and create a 5 amp version. I do think power regulation is the be all end all tho. Just waiting on evolv's DNA20 chip to come out, then I can create my 10ml 26650 power regulated hybrid and can have the best of both worlds:D

You're crazy putting that much amperage through an 18350 :evil:

Zen has said multiple times that his devices are made only for the wick and wire that comes with the kit, and that he does not condone the use of low-resistance wire in his mini's. They're supposed to "shut you down" and limit amperage by sending the current through a limiter (some small spring or piece of metal that will prevent anything over a certain amperage from flowing).

Of course, that's part of the reason why I won't buy into the Zen devices. Not user-friendly enough for me, too many restrictions and rules...

I think there's a misperception surrounding 28 gauge that if you use it, you must be an extreme vaper- I feel like most vapers' understanding of high-wattage vaping has more to do with experience on standard atties and cartos, and even with 32 gauge, all of which behave much differently than 28 gauge does. A proper 28 gauge coil might be high-wattage, but it won't behave the same as running a standard atty at that same level of power- it's much cooler and refined, watt-for-watt.

think of it this way: if you built a hypothetical coil out of silver "NR" wire, it would short your battery, of course- but also, it would not heat up at all. This would be the extreme of high-wattage, when in fact, the low-resistance becomes so low that no heat is generated. So there is an inverse property to wire gauge, thickness and resistance that happens as the thickness increases and resistance approaches zero, and I think as more people get into thicker wire, it will become more apparent over time that we aren't necessarily "extreme" vapers- at least some of us aren't. ;)
 
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Pooladdict247

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Well I'm only pushing 5.25 amps on a freshly charged aw imr, which is advertised to handle 6amps continuously . The first 15 mins of vaping on a fresh battery is a bit harsh but the next few hours is were its really hitting good for me, hence why I believe power regulation is the way to go. I mainly like the 28 because its so much thicker and beefier. Ive ran the same coil for over a month now. The TH and flavor is also in a league of its own. Never been able to get a coil to last that long without it breaking/popping. I do plan on getting some 30 in the future and tryin that out. On my provari/did I only run 33ga 2/3, 1.7 ohm at 4v and I can only get a week or 2 out of a coil before she breaks. I sure when I get the 30 it will probably be my replacement for the 33 on my did and cobalt.

As far as Mike not condoning 28, Im not saying your wrong, but when I chit chatted with him a few months back when he had his HoH thread, he never told me not to use it, he himself has used it but doesnt prefer it. He said it was for the more "extreme" vapers and that it burns the juice. I think it just boils down to personal preference and the juice your using, some people might think that my setup is extreme, I think it's just right. As far as anything in my cobalt that limits the amperage, it must be a myth because mine will put whatever the battery is capable of(after I fixed it). I know this is fact because when I first received it I had issues with the switch so I had to break out my multimeter, sand a few parts that had anodizing on them, and get the total resistance down to around 0.2 instead of 1.2. So unless he has said this recently the only thing(regulation to using a Zen) that was told to me was AW IMR only, never anything about coil gauge restrictions. Same goes with the iHybrid I just ordered. The only limitation I know of is IMR batteries only.

I do agree that I may be pushing the lil old 18350 a lil hard but Im not convinced that hitting the button and taking a 3-4 second pull is going to hurt a thing. I will say though I will feel much more comfortable when I get my hellraiser and can run the standard mode/18650 with that setup, then Ill probably change up the cobalt to a smaller gauge wire.
 
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