I am a little less confused today than I was yesterday but I would appreciate all constructive input.

[JohnSh]

I posted this in the new members forum yesterday and got some good information. I was hoping some of you experienced mixers might be able to either make it crystal clear for me or point me to some links that might.

Hi all, new member here. I think this question should go in the DIY forum but I have not got 5 posts yet.
I decided to mix my own juice. I went to the local vape shop and bought 250 ML of 30 MG PG based nicotine, 125 ML of 30 MG baseVG nicotine, several 30 ML of PG based flavors and all the supplies I thought I would need. I D/l several different calculators and they all seem to treat the nicotine, PG and VG as different ingredients. I am confused and hope to get someone here to explain to me what I am missing.Here is a print out of the recipe card:


Default.dft
Nicotine Strength e-Juice PG 60% VG 40% 30mg
Target Nicotine Strength 16mg
Amount to Make 10ml
Water/Vodka/PGA 0%
Amaretto PG 0% VG 0%
Nicotine eJuice 5.33ml 107 Drops 53.3% <<<
PG 50% 0.8ml 16 Drops 8% <<<
VG 50% 1.87ml 37 Drops 18.7% <<<
Water/Vodka/PGA 0ml 0 Drops 0%
Amaretto 2ml 40 Drops 20%

I don't want to mix this stuff without a thorough understanding of what I am doing.

Would I divide the drops of Nicotine 60/40 to get the right mixture there and add no nicotine PG and VG as shown here to get the right mixture? If so is any vegetable oil OK to use? (in the new members forum they say Vegetable oil and glycerin were not to be interchange. The glycerin is ok to inhale but the oil would cause lung problems. If you guys disagree with this then do let me know otherwise I am making a big note "Never, ever use vegetable oil!" What about PG? can I just use Vodka? I ask because I noticed that there was a Water/Vodka/PGA category.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[relapse]

Vg is technically an alcohol chemically.. Vegetable oil is not a substitute. Inhaling vegetable oil is completely unsafe, google lipid pneumonia.

 

[UntamedRose]

Here is a basic calculator.... simpler then others eJuice Recipe Calculator

"Never, ever use vegetable oil!"

I normally dont do the whole nic vg and nic pg split. Normally just get a straight pg nic with a higher nic amount..like 100mg or 50mg then add in needed plan VG and filler up the rest of the way with plan PG.
But I Suppose it would be fine if thats how you want to do it.

Vodka is use as TH bump or VG thinner...and at most talking a drop or two. It is not a substitute for PG.

Also who flavoring brand did you get? did you look up how others are using it, some brands have recommended starting points. 20% on one flavor is really high. Most of recipes are like 1-5% per flavor...

 

[JohnSh]

Thanks for the info. It will all go into my OneNote regarding Vaping.
I got an Amaretto flavor from Capella, A coffee flavor from Flavor apprentice & Cinnamon Roll from LorAnn oils. I figured those three might keep me busy for a while but when I got confused by the ingredients to calculator mismatch I decided I better back up and do some research. I have not looked at many other recipes and did not look for specific brands and their flavors, now I have more research to do.
Thanks again for the info!

 

[retired1]

Moved to DIY E-Liquid as it's not really a recipe for the Recipe forum.

 

[KenD]

Looks like you don't have any 0 nicotine vg and pg. You need those if you want to make 16 mg juice out of 30 mg nic liquid. Don't substitute the vg or pg for anything else (you can dilute the vg with a small amount of distilled water, but that's it).

 

[Boletus]

Nomenclature and abbreviations can be confusing at first: PG = Propylene Glycol, PGA = Pure Grain Alcohol (e.g. Everclear), and they are very different substances for vaping purposes. Some people do use vodka instead of PGA; PGA is not available everywhere and not everyone wants it around anyway. I have not used it myself, but others have cautioned against using cheapo vodka and recommended using high quality stuff (don't ask me which brands, I have no idea).

Regarding calculator applications, I also know very little (I do all of my own calcs), but I think that having your nic in separate PG and VG bases may add a bit of confusion, since most people either get their nic in pure PG, pure VG, or a premixed blend of VG and PG (which I think the calculators can accommodate). An easy fix there, if that is an issue, and assuming the nic concentrations are the same, is to use half of each and call it 50/50 PG/VG. For example 10 ml of 30 mg/ml VG and 10 ml of 30 mg/ml PG = 20 ml of 30 mg/ml that is 50%VG/50%PG. Other combinations are quite possible, but you do need a bit of algebra and a firm understanding of a few basic chemistry principals to do your own mixing equations.

I'll give you one more though: since you bought 250 ML of 30 MG PG based nicotine and 125 ML of 30 MG base VG nicotine, if you combine all of that into one bottle and mix it well, you have 375 ml of 30 mg/ml nic in a base that is 66%PG/33%VG. If you are wanting a final nic concentration of 16 mg/ml, you will need more PG and/or VG with 0 mg of nic.

In case you need to have someone else say it, Never Use Vegetable Oil. But I'm guessing you get that already.

Your recipe calls for "Nicotine eJuice 5.33ml 107 Drops 53.3% <<<", but it does not say what strength (concentration) the nicotine base is, so it is not a very good recipe, IMO. Also, I would not use drops for things that you need more than a tiny bit of. Do you really want to count out 107 drops of something? But that is just me.

 

[Boletus]

A couple of stickies at the top of this subforum are important reading:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/127760-diy-warning-please-read.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/277267-purity-pg-vg-peg-short-version.html

ECF users dannyv45 and Hoosier have blogs with lots of great info for beginners; reading those will save you asking many, many questions.

A lot of people with no chemistry training learn to do this, but they must learn some chemistry to do it correctly. In my opinion, you should understand the following terms and how they apply to this before starting: volume, mass, concentration, ratio, dilution. For example, if you do not know why the common convention of describing nicotine strength as "mg" is actually just shorthand for "mg/ml" and why that is important, do spend some time reading the info here and asking questions before you dive in and mix something up and vape it.

 

[JohnSh]

Thanks for all the info! Sorry for not posting in the right area I didn't see just a DIY. I will have to take a closer look.

I think the recipe card side of things gives number of Ml based on the strength you input and the target strength. In this case I have 30 MG/Ml of VG and PG and am shooting for 18 MG/ML. Here is an updated card based on reduction of amount to be mixed (I don't want to waste more than I have to) and adding a flavor.

As far as Nicotine Purity goes. I am kinda particular. I made sure the Vape shop I purchased this from used NicSelect. Based on what I have read I think I am just going to see if I can get it and PG and VG base straight from a reputable source. Even if they use NicSelect, how do I know they don't mix it with a low grade base to get the mixture I buy from them? I know the stronger the Nicotine, the more dangerous but I have been a closet Chemist (No I do not make ..... I am not that kind of Chemist. Think more along the lines of pesticides, cleaning solutions and canning foods. If you think those don't require a thorough knowledge to do it right, you've never tried them) for years. Just never thought about creating Vaping juices until now.

I haven't researched the whole VG versus vegetable oil thing but if I am going to err it will be on the side of caution. Until I get enough time to research the chemical composition of each I will stick with the VG and I am guessing that I will be glad I didn't just go off uninformed and cowboy the recipe. I think they got me on lipid pneumonia.

Now on to the latest recipe. I have the equipment to measure by ML not drops but thanks for pointing that out. I learned years ago that all drops are not the same. I won't go into the chemistry lecture but suffice it to say I understand what you are saying. It's only included because that's one of the measures that the calculator gives not what I will be doing. Also, I like a lot of flavor most recipes I tried I had to get flavoring and add to them because they were too weak. do you think 10% for each flavor will just be overpowering?

Assuming that I mix all of the 125 ML VG base and all the 250 PG base that are both 30 MG and use the resultant ingredient for the Nicotine.I am getting the PG to VG ratio with the Nicotine mixture.
Does this look like a safe recipe? Anyone ever tried anything close? Might I be creating a taste disaster?

I am looking for something close to a lighter version of Amaretto pipe tobacco. F.a Red Type Flavor stands for Red Type Flavor (think Marlboro or Pall Mall red cigarettes) made by Flavor Apprentice and of course Capella Amaretto would stand for Amaretto flavor made by Capella.

All constructive thoughts definitely appreciated.

Amaretto Tobacco Recipe

Nicotine Strength e-Juice PG 66.67%VG 33.33%30mg/ML
Target Nicotine Strength 18mg
Amount to Make 5ml
Capella Amaretto PG 100%VG 0%
F. A. Red Type Tobacco PG 100%VG 0%

Nicotine eJuice PG - 66.67 %. VG-33.33% 30MG/ML @ 3ml 60 Drops 60%
PG 70% 0.5ml 10 Drops 10%
VG 30% 0.5ml 10 Drops 10%
Capella Amaretto 0.5ml 10 Drops 10%
F. A. Red Type Tobacco 0.5ml 10 Drops 10%

I am running really low I will have to make a batch tomorrow night

 

[Boletus]

I have no idea what it will taste like, but that is a much more coherent recipe.

 

[JohnSh]

I have no idea what it will taste like, but that is a much more coherent recipe.

Thanks, my thoughts on the base are a direct result of the Post you made with the link to the Sticky about purity of base. So much to consider when creating things. That's why I ask and then really consider what other people have to say. We can't know everything but we can learn a lot when we listen to good sources.

 

[JohnSh]

OK, juice mixed and it tastes great but I am a tweak hound. I think the next batch will have 0.6 ML Amaretto and 0.4 ML Red TypeTabacco. I like plenty of flavor and this has it. It's just a little too much Tobacco and not enough Amaretto. Otherwise, Nicotine concentration, Throat hit and vapor are fine for me. I really don;t care about making a big cloud and this shows just enough vapor to know by site that it is working.

I wanted to thank everyone who replied. You gave me much to think about and guided me in the right direction. Having never mixed chemicals for human consumption I needed all the help I could get. When I get just the perfect combination, I'll chack the ejuice recipes and if there is nothing close to this recipe I'll drop it in there.

Thanks again!