I believe I have inadvertantly violated one of the terms of use

[Warren E. Justice]

I tried to post a message that mentioned that I felt better after not smoking cigarettes and then mentioned that I had a 3x bypass from smoking after 16 years of non-smoking. I went on to say that I decided to choose a vaping experience instead.
I am afraid I then gave my opinion on how much better vaping was than smoking. I have now read that there is NO proof that vaping is safe and that it too can and may be harming me.

I can say that it does not feel like smoking cigarettes did. However, alcohol did not FEEL bad either but it sure did cause me many life problems.
I was trying to warn people who are new to vaping that it may not be wise to try to tell their friends that vaping is cheaper than smoking cigarretes. In the long run- It most probably is but that would be dependent on how much a person vaped and also how their body responds to vaping.

To get STARTED and have back-up batteries, tanks, chargers, coils etc. It IS very expensive to get started vaping. It stops a lot of people from trying it for very long. MY point was to avoid allowing your enthusiasm for vaping to color their judgment on the damage they may do to the body. MY point was financial. Vaping is very expensive--as is cigarette smoking. It would probably be better not to do either. I only know that for myself. I feel and look much better since I avoided taking up smoking again.
For me-- my blood pressure became near normal and I did not and do not cough all of the time and the more I reduce the nicotine content-- the better it is. I have cut from 24-- to 18 and now 12. I plan to go down to 3-6. This is what my girlfriend did and she says she sleeps better and that is just what she has experienced and may not have any bearing what-so-ever on what results you might experience.

I do know that those coils are a pain in the but and are NOT uniformly made. There does not seem to be any reliable data on how long a coil is supposed to last and I find that disconcerting. There seems to be no standards nor is it possible to take a defective product BACK to the store. This seems to be criminal to me. IF I buy an $80.00 tank and it works for one day and then stops working even though my others do on the same coil-- I should be able to get my money back and until those of us who want higher standards in a product we enjoy when it works right- no longer tolerate the rules that are usually scribbled on a piece of paper with a crayon (NO REFUNDS OR TRADE BACKS ALLOWED) we will spend our hard earned money sometimes on faulty products.

I feel strongly about this and I hope I am able to say that as a group of people we should be allowed to take a defective product back if we can prove it does not work right without the store staff having to test it by puffing on it for this may pass germs.

Thank you for allowing me a forum to vent my frustrations and to express my opinions. MY girlfriend is a master's degree nurse and DOES get a cough from vaping. She worries that is may be harming her and I have no proof that it is not. I only know that vaping does not smell like something dirty-- it does not make your clothes and hair smell like a dead sock and that is evident by most people who experience the vapor that is left in the room when someone is using an e-cig.

Thank you again for this opportunity to express what I believe to be true.

Warren E. Justice Love you all

 

[Bimini Twist]

Stating your opinion on vaping is not a violation of any rule I'm aware of. Perhaps it was in your wording or language used?

I'm curious why you started vaping after 16 years of non-smoking?

I am afraid I then gave my opinion on how much better vaping was than smoking. I have now read that there is NO proof that vaping is safe and that it too can and may be harming me.

The vast majority of experienced vapers here on ECF do not state that vaping is safe, but that it is safer than smoking. There is a LOT of research already available, though of course no long-term data yet. A good launch pad for looking up such information is at vaping.com (link included at the top of these pages). CASAA is another excellent resource.

To get STARTED and have back-up batteries, tanks, chargers, coils etc. It IS very expensive to get started vaping. It stops a lot of people from trying it for very long. MY point was to avoid allowing your enthusiasm for vaping to color their judgment on the damage they may do to the body. MY point was financial. Vaping is very expensive--as is cigarette smoking. It would probably be better not to do either. I only know that for myself. I feel and look much better since I avoided taking up smoking again.

Well, startup costs can be expensive, but certainly not when compared to the cost of smoking. But of course it isn't free. Sure, it would be cheaper not to do either. There is no free lunch. When I quit, I was paying $55 per carton every week in my area. You can get a very decent setup for just two weeks worth of cigs at that price. 3-4 weeks can get a VERY nice setup. And the cost of juice is ridiculously lower than the cost of tobacco - so far. The politicians are working very hard at changing that.

I do know that those coils are a pain in the but and are NOT uniformly made. There does not seem to be any reliable data on how long a coil is supposed to last and I find that disconcerting.

In my experience (a couple of years ago), yes, pre-made coils are very inconsistent. There cannot be reliable data on how long a coil will last because there are too many variables in the equation. How much power does your device use? How often do you vape? How thick is the juice? What kind of juice (some juices gunk up coils much faster than others)? etc, etc, etc...

I do know that those coils are a pain in the but and are NOT uniformly made. There does not seem to be any reliable data on how long a coil is supposed to last and I find that disconcerting. There seems to be no standards nor is it possible to take a defective product BACK to the store. This seems to be criminal to me. IF I buy an $80.00 tank and it works for one day and then stops working even though my others do on the same coil-- I should be able to get my money back and until those of us who want higher standards in a product we enjoy when it works right- no longer tolerate the rules that are usually scribbled on a piece of paper with a crayon (NO REFUNDS OR TRADE BACKS ALLOWED) we will spend our hard earned money sometimes on faulty products.

I feel strongly about this and I hope I am able to say that as a group of people we should be allowed to take a defective product back if we can prove it does not work right without the store staff having to test it by puffing on it for this may pass germs.

I suggest you stop shopping at that store. Many B&M stores have little sanitary disposable silicone tips they place over a drip tip for test vaping. I have seen one store employee simply remove the drip tip and "tail pipe" the device itself to see how it vaped.

There are many vendors online and at B&M stores that have good reputations. There are very few Chinese products that have a warranty, though. I'm sure you don't expect quality or honor from the clones/clone manufacturers. But there are many companies in the US and Europe and a couple of companies in China that back their products.

Anyway, congratulations on not smoking and WELCOME to ECF!

 

[Bimini Twist]

In my experience (a couple of years ago), yes, pre-made coils are very inconsistent. There cannot be reliable data on how long a coil will last because there are too many variables in the equation. How much power does your device use? How often do you vape? How thick is the juice? What kind of juice (some juices gunk up coils much faster than others)? etc, etc, etc...

I forgot to add that it is very easy and MUCH more economical to use a rebuildable tank (RBA, RTA) or dripping atomizer (RDA) and wrap your own coils if you are able to. If not, a friend can probably help. Very consistent and easy to create coils to your own preferences.

 

[Coldrake]

Vaping can be expensive, if you let it, but it certainly doesn't need to be. When I started vaping on July 31, 2013, I spent about $120 on gear in the first 8 months, which was about the same that I would spend on cigarettes in 15 days. Since then I've spent about $800 on some high end gear, but that was my choice, I didn't need to. I used to spend $250 a month on cigarettes, I now spend about $40 to $50 a month on vaping, which means I now save $200 a month.

No one can or should say that vaping is safe, because at this point we just don't know. We can say that vaping is safer. With all of the information and studies that are out now, vapeing is generally considered to be at least 95% safer than smoking.

What specifically are your concerns about vaping? There are absolutely massive amounts of junk science, misinformation and outright lies about the safety of vaping out there. The formaldehyde scare is one of the latest, (which has been thoroughly debunked). If you can tell us your health concerns about vaping, I'm sure we can answer any questions you have.

Below is from a post that I made yesterday that may be helpful. These are just a few examples of what's out there. There are LOT more.

Comparison of the effects of e-cigarette vapor and cigarette smoke on indoor air quality. - PubMed - NCBI
Non-cancer risk analysis revealed "No Significant Risk" of harm to human health for vapor samples from e-liquids.

The study indicates no apparent risk to human health from e-cigarette emissions based on the compounds analyzed.


http://clearstream.flavourart.it/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/CSA_ItaEng.pdf
there is one fact: 5 vapers using e-cigarettes for 5h in a small room without renewal of indoor air do not produce detectable levels of nicotine in the air.

No glycerine was detected in air during cigarette smoking. On the other hand, 72μg/m3 were detected during e-smoking. This amount is much lower than the threshold safety limit (TWA-TLV 10mg/m3) and much lower than the threshold for moderate risk.

During the traditional cigarette smoking session, 6 out of 16PAHs were identified. Nothing was identified during the e-cigarette session.

The above experiment, within the limits of the observed parameters, has underlined that e-smoking does not produce detectable amounts of toxic and carcinogenic substances in the air of an enclosed space.

IJERPH | Free Full-Text | Comparative In Vitro Toxicity Profile of Electronic and Tobacco Cigarettes, Smokeless Tobacco and Nicotine Replacement Therapy Products: E-Liquids, Extracts and Collected Aerosols
The toxicity evaluation was performed on e-liquids and pad-collected aerosols of e-cigs, pad-collected smoke condensates of tobacco cigarettes and extracts of SLT and NRT products. In all assays, exposures with e-cig liquids and collected aerosols, at the doses tested, showed no significant activity when compared to tobacco burning cigarettes. Results for the e-cigs, with and without nicotine in two evaluated flavor variants, were very similar in all assays, indicating that the presence of nicotine and flavors, at the levels tested, did not induce any cytotoxic, genotoxic or inflammatory effects. The present findings indicate that neither the e-cig liquids and collected aerosols, nor the extracts of the SLT and NRT products produce any meaningful toxic effects in four widely-applied in vitro test systems, in which the conventional cigarette smoke preparations, at comparable exposures, are markedly cytotoxic and genotoxic.


Norwegian Institute of Public Health must IMMEDIATELY retract false statements about passive e-cigarette exposure
As I calculated in my comment for the Spanish study, the level of nicotine intake from passive exposure to e-cigarettes is not only harmless but has absolutely no biological effect, even according to the strictest regulatory criteria.

Nicotine absorbed from “passive vaping” is minimal and with no health implications
Does it mean that passive vaping may lead to nicotine dependence?
Does it mean that nicotine is absorbed to such levels that it may cause harm to bystanders?
The answer to both questions is NO.