I DID try (frustrated newbie)

[arbogast]

I'm aware that i'm asking what other frustrated fellow rta newbies have asked before me. Still, I hope you'll forgive me asking as I find setting up the DID extremely difficult. I've been at it for a month, and have used up an entire sheet (+) of SS mesh, several meters of Kanthal A-1, 32 gauge. I have made many wicks and even more coils

I've read and watched a considerable percentage of tutorials reg setup of genesis-style atomizers including replies to posts like this.
I've tried different tecniques (and combinations thereof) and stuck with them repeatedly attempting to vary only one or two parameters at a time.
I'm usually quite good at fiddling / fine motor skills stuff.

I've metered each setup before trying it on low voltage (not PWM devices) and haven't even been close to making a short- and/or hot spot free setup. I've stuck with 3 rounds of wire.

What I've tried:
- drill bit method
- jack frost method
- cigarette paper
- quenching and not quenching
- gentle oxidation and heavy oxidation with torch
- juice burning on wick
- rolling the coil on wick before and after inserting
- different tension when wrapping the coil
- being careful when tightening the top nut
- clockwise and counterclockwise coil
- having a syringe needle inserted in the wick in order to counter the pull from tightening top nut.
- careful dry burns w VG + gentle coil fiddling
- torching the wire before wrapping
- different wick dimensions
- varying the size of the wick fold
- re-oxidizing
- cursing, praying and invoking

I find this is not difficult at all - Apart from making the damn thing work, that is.

I'd be happy with some suggestions as I feel i'm going in circles. I'd really like to make a working SS wick + coil setup - just once.

I'm happily vaping boge cartos, btw. So i don't need this to work. I just need to make it work so I can sleep again

 

[mwa102464]

Maybe if you posted some pics of your set ups we could help you out some more, it's probably something very simple your doing wrong and showing us your set ups would greatly help in getting you going.

 

[Crack3dOne]

I have a problem with RBAs on regulated voltage devices because they have AMP limits.

A lot of my setups on my DID or Orion are pushing past 4 amps. Perhaps you try just a nice mechanical mod for your RBAs.

 

[BuzzKilla]

Just a few questions so we can help:

What is the actual problem? Shorts, throat hit, taste or just not firing?

What do your coils ohm out to?

What e-cig are you using the DID with?

And pics would help...

My setup : 400 mesh & 32 gauge kanthal on a clone DID

 

[arbogast]

This is latest attempt. Coils are deliberately wrapped losely. The idea was to tighten by fiddling (a suggestion I've read elsewhere), but wire is too elastic, it jumps back unless pushed violently enough which destroys oxidation layer.
Wick oxidized by gentle torching prior to rolling, then 3 VG burns.

The problem always seem to be shorts and/or hotspots in a degree that causes too little vapor and / or burnt taste.

This one metered to 1.6 ohms, tried it on a mechanical (precise plus 18650, no kick). Battery had been used all day, so was probably 3.6-ish. I've also been using buzz pro and provari. Beginning at lowest voltage.

I couldn't find out how to resize the images, sorry.

 

[Crack3dOne]

Your coil is WAY too loose, and not even at all. It needs to be touching the wick. One sec and I'll post a pic of mine. I used the Peter K method of making the coil on a drill bit just slightly smaller than the wick hole, installing the coil on the DID, pulling the drill bit out of the coil and sliding the wick into the coil. Also, I think your wick, at least for a authentic DID, should be flush with the top nut because of the low ceiling in the cap.

 

[Crack3dOne]

That's a #500 mesh wick, 105mm in length, cut to be just slightly off the bottom and flush with the top nut. 28 kanthal a-1, 5/6 wrap at 1.1 ohm. With a fresh battery at 4.2volts that’s, 3.82 amps and 16 watts on the mechanical mod.

Sent from my Samsung S III running on SS mesh and kanthal.

 

[BuzzKilla]

regarding the wire "springiness", what makes it easier for me, is to heat the kanthal with a lighter until it glows red. Just run the lighters flame along the wire, doesn't take long for it to go red.
After that, the coil wire becomes more manageable, and easier to wrap.

for me the more wraps the better(but i have a kick), i would say go at least 4/5 wraps, this should still keep you under 2 ohms, and try the lighter trick.

its possible that with less spring in the wire, you wont be fiddling with it, to rub off that layer on the wick....

visually i see nothing wrong except, the coil is way to far from the wick for my liking & i would use more mesh.
makes it more sturdy, and easier to wrap in place.

my coils are up against the wick, but i can still pull the wick out without moving the coils.

When checking for hotspots, is the coil wet? i do a dry run at first to make it easier to check for hotspots, and use a toothpick to nudge the coils ever so slightly. over a day of vaping, enough crud builds up that hotspots become a thing of the past.

keep at it buddy.

 

[arbogast]

I did heat the wire first, but still find it 'springy'. I've tried both but don't notice any big difference in 'springyness'(?)
I'm well aware this current coil is way too loose. It was suggested to me (somewhere else) to do that, and tighten it by moving them after wrapping. I'll try a cpl of reg. 'zen style' wicks'n'wraps next, and post pics here.

Thanks a lot for your input and encouragement - i really appreciate it!!

 

[Kemosabe]

Here's a photo of my coil. It keeps shorting out, then coming back to life out of nowhere, without me touching anything.
When it does decide to work, the vapor is wispy. The flavor is ok most of the time, other times it tastes burnt. Any help would be outstanding.

 

[gemi]

What is the size of the wick hole in the did? Trying to figure out what drill bit size to buy.

 

[overall]

OK.....the coil is too loose but you probably know that, a loose coil won't tighten with tinkering. Also your wick is too tall. After tightening up your coil cut the wick at or below the level of the top nut. The top cap can easily short on the top of the wick. With a 3/2 wrap you are going to have a fairly low resistance coil <1.5 ohm if that is 32awg.
Your wick looks good so let's work with what you have. Relax....get your cartos vape and away we go. The DID likes a long ground. Make sure the bottom of the coil drags along the bottom of the nut. Aim for 75% under the nut. Then the top nut needs to be nice and snug. Support the wire and tighten the top nut. OK now we have a coil that is snug to the wick and wrapped really well under the positive and negative nuts. With your mod battery run down fire the device. With a toothpick, needle, or screwdriver work the coils. Start knocking the red coil a bit and work your way down the coils. The bottom coil is often the naughty one on the DID. Once you have all the coils glowing fairly evenly (note the bottom coil is sometimes slow this is normal and nothing to worry about) go ahead and add some juice. Look at how to fires - big volcanic type eruptions from the sides of the coil are shorts, just mess with the coil a bit. Fireworks splatter is fine. Pop the cap on and try to vape. Keep the voltage a bit low until it settles in.

This is latest attempt. Coils are deliberately wrapped losely. The idea was to tighten by fiddling (a suggestion I've read elsewhere), but wire is too elastic, it jumps back unless pushed violently enough which destroys oxidation layer.
Wick oxidized by gentle torching prior to rolling, then 3 VG burns.

The problem always seem to be shorts and/or hotspots in a degree that causes too little vapor and / or burnt taste.

This one metered to 1.6 ohms, tried it on a mechanical (precise plus 18650, no kick). Battery had been used all day, so was probably 3.6-ish. I've also been using buzz pro and provari. Beginning at lowest voltage.

I couldn't find out how to resize the images, sorry.

 

[arbogast]

I really appreciate your input!

I have done some wicks + coils lately. Trying to follow the 'zen-method'. Apart from that i took special care to avoid having an edge on the wick. Also took care wrapping the wire (and extra care with the top coil), but every setup had shorts on either top or bottom coil - sometimes both. I feel confident the coil is not too tightly wound as wick can be rotated(and moved up or down). Gently fiddling doesn't really seem to make any difference.
When testing I've been careful only to dryburn only enough to notice the shorts/spot to avoid burning through oxidation layer.

There must be something i'm doing wrong (something fundamental, and very, very obvious - just not to me)

Here's a pic after my last attempt- taken after a lot of fiddling (the coil was a lot prettier initially).

 

[MrKV]

I can see a little air between the wick and coil at the bottom of your wrap. That's something you do not want.

It is possible that once your coil gets a nice layer on it, it wouldn't matter but I try to wrap mine without any parts of the coil seeing air.

 

[overall]

The DID likes a long ground. Get a small screwdriver and push the bottom coil wire between the wick and negative post in and down (towards the center post). This will snug up the bottom coil and make the ground longer. Then as you fire start moving coils around. Start with the second one. Often a short at the top is caused by a lower coil....and often it is because of the bottom coil and grounding. Moving the could while firing makes then much more flexible, it also gives you immediate feedback. As the hot coils cool they hold their memory of where they are supposed to be.

I really appreciate your input!

I have done some wicks + coils lately. Trying to follow the 'zen-method'. Apart from that i took special care to avoid having an edge on the wick. Also took care wrapping the wire (and extra care with the top coil), but every setup had shorts on either top or bottom coil - sometimes both. I feel confident the coil is not too tightly wound as wick can be rotated(and moved up or down). Gently fiddling doesn't really seem to make any difference.
When testing I've been careful only to dryburn only enough to notice the shorts/spot to avoid burning through oxidation layer.

There must be something i'm doing wrong (something fundamental, and very, very obvious - just not to me)

Here's a pic after my last attempt- taken after a lot of fiddling (the coil was a lot prettier initially).

 

[MaxUT]

I did heat the wire first, but still find it 'springy'. I've tried both but don't notice any big difference in 'springyness'(?)

I've never wrapped a coil but I do know a little about heat treating. You need to heat metal to its critical temperature (typically a bright red heat) to cause a phase change in its structure in order to effectively anneal it.

Try bringing it to cherry red heat and maintaining that heat for about 30 seconds. Let the wire cool slowly.

 

[arbogast]

Thanks a lot guys. I do understand if you're getting tired of this

I tried all of your suggestions, managed to get the second coil glowing for a cpl of seconds, but suddenly the wire shorted next to the top not and melted

I can see a little air between the wick and coil at the bottom of your wrap. That's something you do not want.

I get shorts with every single coil lately- so I thought I'd err on the side of caution in my (futile) attempt to solve this particular issue. But maybe a bad idea?

How many times can a wick be re-oxidised, btw? (I'm into my last sheet of mesh)

 

[BuzzKilla]

question.... are the shorts happening at the edge of the mesh.

when you role the mesh do you fold over the edge, so that the frayed ends don't cause a short?

i'm too lazy to go back and read if this process was suggested. but its worth mentioning.

 

[vsummer1]

Didn't read it all, but have to add that my first coil was made with the cotton method, and worked like a charm. I don't use it anymore, but to start out it sure did help!

If someone didn't explain it yet, you take your wick and a cotton ball or qtip and brush the wick across the cotton with a few little strands going around the wick before you coil it. You can't dry burn it, but it stops all shorts.

 

[MrKV]

Thanks a lot guys. I do understand if you're getting tired of this

I tried all of your suggestions, managed to get the second coil glowing for a cpl of seconds, but suddenly the wire shorted next to the top not and melted


I get shorts with every single coil lately- so I thought I'd err on the side of caution in my (futile) attempt to solve this particular issue. But maybe a bad idea?

How many times can a wick be re-oxidised, btw? (I'm into my last sheet of mesh)

I kmow you've said you tried many methods, but on your last wick what was your complete oxidation process from beginning to end? Second, how did you roll it? Please tell me every little detail so I can try to help.