I want to make a mod.

[mikepointfive]

I wanna make a mod. I know that I gotta get a machine shop involved at some point but prior to that, what is the process? do i need any software? do i gotta make a 3D model? So far I just have sketches on paper. is this the right forum for this? I feel like that since I passed 70 posts I never know where to post threads..

 

[classwife]

Moved to the Modding Forum from Technical Research

 

[100%VG]

I wanna make a mod. I know that I gotta get a machine shop involved at some point but prior to that, what is the process? do i need any software? do i gotta make a 3D model? So far I just have sketches on paper. is this the right forum for this? I feel like that since I passed 70 posts I never know where to post threads..

Hi Mike,

Maybe I can help you. There are several Mods you can build, without having to get into Machining anything. Like this, for example...
Add Variable Voltage Control to Your eCig Mod - The PUCK e-Cig Mod

What kind of thing did you have in mind?... and what Size? There are several Electronic Chip Modules already built that can be used, where you just solder on the wires onto ready-to-solder terminals. For what I consider the Ultimate, Evolv makes a VW Chip that goes from 7W up to 20W, and has a beautiful OLED Screen already attached. It's called the DNA 20D. Evolv also makes a USB Charger that will charge your Batteries with 4.2V, at 500mA, from 5V into a USB connector. If you want less than 7W, or don't want the OLED Screen, and 12W is high enough for you, Evolv makes a VW Chip that runs from 5W to 12W, without a Screen, and has ready-to-solder terminals. That's the original DNA 12. The DNA 20D was a follow-up on the DNA 12, for those who wanted higher Watts. These are both designed for a Single 18650 Lithium Manganese Battery, like the Panasonic 2250 mAh Hybrid LiNiCoMn CGR18650CH - the absolute best you can get. Or two batteries in Parallel, like Lithium Polymer Batteries.

You can also build your own around an IC Chip, like in the link above, and add a Volt Meter if you wish...
How to Make a Variable Voltage Mod E-Cig Personal Vaporizer - YouTube
Easiest Variable Voltage Mod - Elmo !! - YouTube

The 510 connectors are readily available, and different Battery Sizes and Shapes can be used... like Li-Ion in 14450, 18350, and 18650. Battery Trays are available for them, with ready-to-solder connectors. Or Flat Lithium-Polymer (Li-Po) Batteries too, like in Cell Phones, can be used in Box Mods.

Lithium Manganese (LiMn) Batteries are highly recommended, but I don't think the Li-Po come in LiMn... you'd have to check to be certain. If you decide to use Li-Ion cylindrical batteries (like 18650), for a higher mAh rating, you should definitely get Protected Batteries, for added Safety!!! And there are levels of Protection, with Short Circuit Protection being the minimum protection in the shortest length, but since you will be building this yourself, you should get Full Protection, and Battery Trays to fit them.

If you don't know, here's how the 18650 Battery Spec works... an 18650 Battery, by the Spec, is 18mm in Diameter, and 65mm in Length, but most of them are a little wider (at least), and as more protection is added, they get longer and longer, so an 18650 Battery that is 65mm long will have NO Protection... one about 66-67mm may only have Short Circuit Protection (if it's a Flat Top - a Button Top will NOT in that length). Full Protection carries several features that are in a Chip on a small Circuit Board, and can make the Battery up to 70mm long. Plus, there are Flat Tops and Button Tops, so length can become an issue, but I think that 70mm is about as long as they get (not sure).

Here are some references...
http://flashlightwiki.com/Rechargeable
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650Summary UK.html

There are two basic Electronics Designs... a Buck Converter, and a Boost Converter. Some Box Mods use two Li-Ion Batteries in Series, for 8.4V Max. A Buck Converter is used with this arrangement, and will regulate a VV Setting, like 4V, by Cutting the Input Voltage down to 4V, and can maintain that 4V (regulate it at 4V) until the Batteries drop from 8.4 to about 5.0V (a dropout voltage of 1V). A VV Setting of 3.3V would therefore be maintained down to 4.3V at the Batteries. However, the Protection would turn them OFF at about 6.4V to 6.0V, when they would need to be Recharged (at their individual 3.2V to 3.0V levels).

For a Single Battery Mod, you'd need a Boost Converter. It would work in a similar fashion, but could Boost the single battery's 4.2V (Max), up to say 6V, and maintain that until about 3.2V (at the Battery), where most Li-Ion Protection will shut them Off (3.0V is about the lowest).

There are also Buck-Boost Converters, that will maintain a VV Setting from a wide range of Input Voltages. One very good Buck-Boost design is called SEPIC, or Single-Ended Primary-Inductor Converter. These have excellent output regulation with minimal noise. Another is called a Ćuk Converter, or Cuk, pronounced Chook, named after Slobodan Ćuk, who first presented the design. SEPIC does not usually Invert the output, but Ćuk normally Does, so a non-inverting Ćuk would be desirable.

With all of these designs, you really have a lot of choices for your Mod. And if you still want to Machine a Battery Tube, or whatever, you could use any of these for the Electronics, but you could also buy those Battery Tubes and things pre-made, and build around them. People have put the DNA 20D in bad a Provari, and others like it. The DNA Boards are only VW, but you really wouldn't need VV with them, and VW has advantages over VV. So far, all of the IC Chip designs I've seen are VV only, so no VW there (yet, that I've seen, but I haven't looked for about a month).
I hope this helps.

 

[mikepointfive]

wow. thanks for all that information 100%VG, Looks like you put a lot of time into that.. i appreciate it, but I'm looking to make a mechanical mod. I have made box mods and flashlight mods, and now thanks to the information you've provided, looks like next ill be doing a VW mod =] but what it is in this thread that i am looking for is how to turn my idea for a mechanical mod into a reality.

 

[100%VG]

wow. thanks for all that information 100%VG, Looks like you put a lot of time into that.. i appreciate it, but I'm looking to make a mechanical mod. I have made box mods and flashlight mods, and now thanks to the information you've provided, looks like next ill be doing a VW mod =] but what it is in this thread that i am looking for is how to turn my idea for a mechanical mod into a reality.

That really simplifies things, because all you need is a good Push Button Switch (Fire Button) that can handle all the Amps, with an over-rating for a Safety Factor, a LiMn Battery (or Li-Ion), a 510 Connector, a Drip Well, a Box or Tube for it, 20-22 AWG Wire (and very good soldering techniques), and lots of Heat Shrink Tubing on the Solder Connections and anything exposed.

Many people get their supplies from Mad Vapes... here DIY Parts.

Do you have an Electronics Background, or would you need help figuring out what size Switch to order, and things like that? Do you know how to figure Amps? Volts divided by Ohms = Amps. Let's say your Atomizer is 2Ω. At 4.2V, that would be 4.2/2, and it would draw 2.1 Amps. For Watts, Volts times Amps = Watts, so this would be 8.82 Watts. Since it's going to be Mechanical, you could even run a 1Ω Coil, and this would be 4.2 Amps, and 17.64 Watts. You'd need a pretty hefty Switch to handle that!!! And a heavy gauge of Wire, too!!!... I'd say 20 AWG for that, but many Modders use 24g. I like to Over-Design, and build in Safety, so I would use 20g.

Neatness counts in a build like this, and using several colors of Wires can help to isolate any problems that may arise, by making them easy to Trace. Make sure everything is very well insulated, with no bare wires exposed, anywhere!!! Even short runs of Bare Wire (and all Solder Joints) should be covered with Heat Shrink (as much as possible). And when a Wire is Stripped, the Insulation should to be as close as possible to the Joint. A Short can cause an Explosion of a Lithium-based Battery (even LiMn)!!! Having a Fully Protected Li-Ion is a good start, but Shorts can create very real problems. The Full Protection is more for Over-Charge (turns the Charge OFF at 4.2V), and Under-Charge (turns the Battery OFF at 3.0V), while Over-Current Protection (and Over-Temp Protection) may put it to sleep for a little while. Though it may have Short Circuit Protection, you need to take every precaution. Sorry for this, but ECF wants me to point these things out, clearly.

This Switch would be OK...
Black Horn style switch, nice for box mods. 12v, 5 amp
Horn Style Switch, Black
This is a 60W Switch, so don't go over about 55W with this one!!!

Be aware that the Mad Vapes pages take a very long time to load!!! (at least for me). You can find 510 Connectors, Boxes, and a wide range of DIY Supplies there. Of course, there are other sites, but this is a good starting point.



If I have missed the point again, please be more specific.

 

[mikepointfive]

That really simplifies things, because all you need is a good Push Button Switch (Fire Button) that can handle all the Amps, with an over-rating for a Safety Factor, a LiMn Battery (or Li-Ion), a 510 Connector, a Drip Well, a Box or Tube for it, 20-22 AWG Wire (and very good soldering techniques), and lots of Heat Shrink Tubing on the Solder Connections and anything exposed.

Many people get their supplies from Mad Vapes... here DIY Parts.

Do you have an Electronics Background, or would you need help figuring out what size Switch to order, and things like that? Do you know how to figure Amps? Volts divided by Ohms = Amps. Let's say your Atomizer is 2Ω. At 4.2V, that would be 4.2/2, and it would draw 2.1 Amps. For Watts, Volts times Amps = Watts, so this would be 8.82 Watts. Since it's going to be Mechanical, you could even run a 1Ω Coil, and this would be 4.2 Amps, and 17.64 Watts. You'd need a pretty hefty Switch to handle that!!! And a heavy gauge of Wire, too!!!... I'd say 20 AWG for that, but many Modders use 24g. I like to Over-Design, and build in Safety, so I would use 20g.

Neatness counts in a build like this, and using several colors of Wires can help to isolate any problems that may arise, by making them easy to Trace. Make sure everything is very well insulated, with no bare wires exposed, anywhere!!! Even short runs of Bare Wire (and all Solder Joints) should be covered with Heat Shrink (as much as possible). And when a Wire is Stripped, the Insulation should to be as close as possible to the Joint. A Short can cause an Explosion of a Lithium-based Battery (even LiMn)!!! Having a Fully Protected Li-Ion is a good start, but Shorts can create very real problems. The Full Protection is more for Over-Charge (turns the Charge OFF at 4.2V), and Under-Charge (turns the Battery OFF at 3.0V), while Over-Current Protection (and Over-Temp Protection) may put it to sleep for a little while. Though it may have Short Circuit Protection, you need to take every precaution. Sorry for this, but ECF wants me to point these things out, clearly.

This Switch would be OK...
Black Horn style switch, nice for box mods. 12v, 5 amp
Horn Style Switch, Black
This is a 60W Switch, so don't go over about 55W with this one!!!

Be aware that the Mad Vapes pages take a very long time to load!!! (at least for me). You can find 510 Connectors, Boxes, and a wide range of DIY Supplies there. Of course, there are other sites, but this is a good starting point.



If I have missed the point again, please be more specific.

im not thinking DIY. I'm thinking manufacturing a mechanical mod by the hundreds. production, not hobby... but thank you once again for being very thorough and detailed.. even if slightly askew. I want to know what I need to take where to make them. I have a money guy, and i have the idea.. now i just need to figure out the next step.

 

[fourtytwo]

im not thinking DIY. I'm thinking manufacturing a mechanical mod by the hundreds. production, not hobby... but thank you once again for being very thorough and detailed.. even if slightly askew. I want to know what I need to take where to make them. I have a money guy, and i have the idea.. now i just need to figure out the next step.

So, what you want is advice on how to start a commercial enterprise or how to present a design to a manufacturer for production?

 

[asdaq]

I sorta feel bad for 100% putting all that energy into a money guy chaser.

 

[Stadanko]

I sorta feel bad for 100% putting all that energy into a money guy chaser.

Great info for the modding community though. Thank you!

 

[100%VG]

I sorta feel bad for 100% putting all that energy into a money guy chaser.

Great info for the modding community though. Thank you!

You're Welcome, as is Mike.

I have most of this stuff saved from my own research, so all I really had to do was organize it here. However, I don't think I have anything else to offer. I had unsubscribed, but saw a Like by V4ping20four7. So don't feel bad for me guys. I enjoy trying to be helpful.

If what I submitted helps anyone at all, the time will have been well worth it. Hopefully, others will find this info, and hopefully, too, Mike will get his answers.

Best of luck to everyone!!!

 

[bapgood]

I sorta feel bad for 100% putting all that energy into a money guy chaser.

I couldn't agree more!

Great info 100%!

 

[mikepointfive]

You're Welcome, as is Mike.

I have most of this stuff saved from my own research, so all I really had to do was organize it here. However, I don't think I have anything else to offer. I had unsubscribed, but saw a Like by V4ping20four7. So don't feel bad for me guys. I enjoy trying to be helpful.

If what I submitted helps anyone at all, the time will have been well worth it. Hopefully, others will find this info, and hopefully, too, Mike will get his answers.

Best of luck to everyone!!!

I do appreciate your efforts 100%. you are definitely an ace for putting all that together for me.. i found a machine shop that will look at my idea and i guess we'll see what comes from there.. ill keep you guys posted.

 

[mikepointfive]

well i met with the machinist today. we basically came to the conclusion that specifics were needed. like drafting images with full specs. dimensions, materials, etc. they said paper drawings would be good, but cad files would be better like something from autocad or autodesk or something of that nature. from that point they would be able to quote me cost. ill provide more details as i progress thru this process.

 

[USinchains]

If you want to sell it successfully, it's going require certain things to have a chance. Adjustable positive post and adjustable throw in the switch, for instance. It's starting to look like adjustable air flow will soon be the norm, as well. I don't know what your design experience is, but those will be some things to concentrate on which require a good level of knowledge in making different materials work together. Then there are things like conductivity of materials used, overall design complexity, versatility, and whatever fresh innovations you can come up with that will make it sink or swim in the market. I'm sure a good relationship with a very good machinist and some beta testing should be involved. I'm no high-end modder or machinist, but potentially a future customer. GL

 

[mikepointfive]

If you want to sell it successfully, it's going require certain things to have a chance. Adjustable positive post and adjustable throw in the switch, for instance. It's starting to look like adjustable air flow will soon be the norm, as well. I don't know what your design experience is, but those will be some things to concentrate on which require a good level of knowledge in making different materials work together. Then there are things like conductivity of materials used, overall design complexity, versatility, and whatever fresh innovations you can come up with that will make it sink or swim in the market. I'm sure a good relationship with a very good machinist and some beta testing should be involved. I'm no high-end modder or machinist, but potentially a future customer. GL

Thanks for your input. I will definitely consider those points you mentioned. Its refreshing to know that someone besides 100% is willing to contribute to this thread. Although I've taken to a policy of not feeding the trolls, I've also taken well to appreciating those who are making efforts to help. I'll continue to post my progress as it unfolds.. and thanks again to 100%VG and USinchains. You are a great example of why ECF is such a valuable resource to the vaping community.

 

[USinchains]

I remember when the Buzz was being conceived, the kind of flack 77lespaul [it's creator] was getting, although that could've just been the nature of the forum it was on and the way he chose to enter it. Anyway, he made it through the wolf pack, so make it happen, bro.

 

[asdaq]

To be fair, you posted this first in Technical Research where it spent a week with no reply. Since the business model was not mentioned and it sounds from the title like DIY, you were moved to the Modding forum. The sales intent came up after the move. Here it is a hobby, one doesn't sell and lots of DIY does indeed happen. One thing modders don't appreciate is having shared their ideas freely and others taking this for personal profit, worse yet not even giving due credit.

So, it appears the Modding Forum is not the right place for this after all.

 

[LucentShadow]

Thanks for your input. I will definitely consider those points you mentioned. Its refreshing to know that someone besides 100% is willing to contribute to this thread. Although I've taken to a policy of not feeding the trolls, I've also taken well to appreciating those who are making efforts to help. I'll continue to post my progress as it unfolds.. and thanks again to 100%VG and USinchains. You are a great example of why ECF is such a valuable resource to the vaping community.

I've been silently watching this thread with some interest, but I have to chime in after that. I hope that you will take this as constructive criticism, and not as grumbling from a troll, but that's up to you.

To be fair, you posted this first in Technical Research where it spent a week with no reply. Since the business model was not mentioned and it sounds from the title like DIY, you were moved to the Modding forum. The sales intent came up after the move. Here it is a hobby, one doesn't sell and lots of DIY does indeed happen. One thing modders don't appreciate is having shared their ideas freely and others taking this for personal profit, worse yet not even giving due credit.

So, it appears the Modding Forum is not the right place for this after all.

The above is true. This sub forum is for enthusiasts who 'mod' or build e-cigs to their personal liking, not for freely giving out business plans to people who want to start an 'APV' business.

I applaud 100%VG for being helpful, but your original post was so vague and (accidentally) misleading, he obviously did not understand what your intentions were. Chalk it up to a big misunderstanding, and an (accidentally) improperly moved thread, I guess. This did not belong in the forum that you posted it in, nor this one. I'm not sure that there is a sub forum for this thread. Perhaps this one would have been better:

Modder/Accessories Supplier Forum

I'm not sure that anyone there would want to help start up a potential competitor, but perhaps a partner could be found there... If you look at the title of any of those people, you'll find 'Registered Supplier' or some such title under their name. ECF is fairly strict about such things. If you get to that point, you'll need to deal with that or possibly be banned.

I generally only post when I think I have something of some value to share, or a question to ask that I was not able to find the answer to myself. I did not see any evidence of due diligence in your posts, and I don't wish to 'help' make someone else money by doing the research for them for free, so my previous paragraph is as far as I will go to help with your enterprise. I would hope that you didn't hold that against me.

I would advise doing some research on your own, learning the proper terminology, and accurately directing any further questions toward people who actually specialize in what you want. Good luck.

 

[mikepointfive]

newest development.. I met with the Most Angry Pirate. Creator of the MAP tanks, and inventor of the carto tank.. he also made the tesla. hopefully things go well with him. were talking about making a hybrid dripper. I tried to wrap my head around Autodesk Inventor, but it'd take me a while to get really good at it.. thats why I'm glad to have met a skilled and reputable engineer with experience in the industry. I have also gotten some pointers from Rick Wechsler of Metal Madness and Greg Melito of Ninja Mods. I've gotten alot of good feedback and have made some good connections.. i guess its just a matter of time till we have a software 3d model now. Wish me luck..

 

[Bringo]

Designing machined parts, How to design machined parts, CAD design

Study this page.