I'd like a definitive answer once and for all: do amps matter?

[Tangaroav]

3 people including myself told him this before that post.

I agree with the other two also.

 

[Weizenheimer]

If amps could kill


Oh wait, they can

 

[Ryedan]

I honestly don't understand what you're asking, it saids right there what the amp draw is: 4.6618 amps
...?

The amp draw from the mod is not the same as the amp draw from the battery. This is confusing, I admit.

Lithium ion batteries can only put out 4.2V maximum. And as the battery charge goes down, the voltage decreases. How is it that we can have mods like the Provari that make 6 volts no matter what the battery charge is?

 

[skoony]

The amp draw from the mod is not the same as the amp draw from the battery. This is confusing, I admit.

Lithium ion batteries can only put out 4.2V maximum. And as the battery charge goes down, the voltage decreases. How is it that we can have mods like the Provari that make 6 volts no matter what the battery charge is?

using voltage regulation circuitry one can boost up or down the voltage and maintain a desired voltage.

this is within reason though. one has to make sure there is enough power to preform the desired task.
an example being theoretically boost a voltage from 9 volts to 50,000 volts as in a taser,which is a high voltage low current device.
on the other hand one could lower the voltage to 2 volts for a low voltage higher current device.
regards
mike

 

[rusirius]

The amp draw from the mod is not the same as the amp draw from the battery. This is confusing, I admit.

Lithium ion batteries can only put out 4.2V maximum. And as the battery charge goes down, the voltage decreases. How is it that we can have mods like the Provari that make 6 volts no matter what the battery charge is?

It's called a regulated switching supply. It's a bit too complex to explain, but in general capacitors are used in a switching circuit to multiply the voltage... That voltage can then be regulated back down to a particular level. Again what changes is the current draw on the battery... As it's voltage decreases, the drain increases to keep the voltage at the same level. Which is why on a regulated mod if vaping at a fixed voltage/wattage the battery lasts a long time at the beginning, but as voltage sags the battery drains faster and faster.

 

[dr g]

Folks, ryedan's question was rhetorical to sahsah.

 

[sahsah]

You literally said "the only difference is the draw on the battery" so that means the same battery, or your thinking is hopelessly muddled. When you are trying to figure something out you can't have too many variables, especially irrelevant ones. The point is the draw is just about the same between both, given a similar battery chemistry and configuration (1S lithium-ion, the standard).

Saying two seperate batteries are being employed is a much smaller difference than saying one is a mech mod and one is a regulated device...
Also, as is clearly stated in the quote above I referred to the power cells in the plural, not that this makes any real difference, I just find it amusing when someone is so self assured that they believe they know what other people are saying even better than the person themselves

 

[sahsah]

sahsah,
Power and Amps are intricately related... Let me try to simplify it... You're kinda masking a bit of the equation from yourself... Yes, your calculations are correct in that both setups are 64 watts... and that 3 ohms with 13 volts is going to draw 4 amps...

BUT...

Here's the part you aren't thinking about... You don't HAVE a 13 volts battery... You have a 4 volt battery... So you have to perform so "magic" to get that 13 volts... You do that via a "Transformer"... You can use other "switching" methods, but a transformer is the easiest way to think of it...

Voltage and Current (amps) are interchangeable... Meaning you can trade one for the other... You can ramp up the voltage at the expense of drawing more current... You can ramp up the current at the expense of losing voltage... But you can't create voltage or current from somewhere it doesn't exist.

In other words, you don't have a 13 volt battery to draw from for your 3 ohm coil... Instead the voltage from your 4 volt battery has to be stepped up to 13 volts... In doing so that means that the current is going to be ramped up too...

Your battery is only supplying 4 volts... rather you're stepping it up to 13 volts or keeping it the same... Do you see what I mean? If we "step up" the voltage to 8 volts, the only way we can do so from our 4 volt battery is to "draw more" current... So even though that 8 volts into a certain load may calculate out to say 5 amps, since we are feeding it from a 4 volt battery we're actually drawing 10 amps....

Is that making more sense now? When you are looking at your scenario, you are "stopping" at the mod... In other words, you're only seeing the 13volts at 4 amps... That's the drain on the circuit in the mod... But that mod has to be fed by something... In this case our 4 volt battery... And if you look at the drain on that battery which has to FEED the mod, you'll see that it's much higher than the 4 amps... In fact, it'll match the mech mod... Actually a bit higher because of efficiency losses...

So forget about that part of your question... Because "amps" will always be dependent on the power... Since we're always using the same source... a 4 volt battery... (i'm excluding other battery configs)

Now as for the other part... What the question really comes down to is... Is there a difference in vaping with different builds even if their power remains constant? And yes... There is.... Different wire gauge, different lag times in heating, different surface area, different wicking, different air flow, etc... It all changes it...

Why can't I have a power source that puts out 13 volts? I think that we are getting caught up in the minutia. Those figures were just random, chosen to give a concrete example. The question is if there's a low-ohm/standard voltage build (ie 4 volts) and then there's a high-ohm/high voltage build. The data works out so that both builds result in identical wattage being pushed through the coils. So the difference between them is the amperage and the amount of kanthal used to make each coil. Will these vapes be different. I say yes. The reason I asked this was to settle a debate.

 

[skoony]

Why can't I have a power source that puts out 13 volts? I think that we are getting caught up in the minutia. Those figures were just random, chosen to give a concrete example. The question is if there's a low-ohm/standard voltage build (ie 4 volts) and then there's a high-ohm/high voltage build. The data works out so that both builds result in identical wattage being pushed through the coils. So the difference between them is the amperage and the amount of kanthal used to make each coil. Will these vapes be different. I say yes. The reason I asked this was to settle a debate.

and you are correct sir.
regards
mike

 

[rusirius]

Why can't I have a power source that puts out 13 volts? I think that we are getting caught up in the minutia. Those figures were just random, chosen to give a concrete example. The question is if there's a low-ohm/standard voltage build (ie 4 volts) and then there's a high-ohm/high voltage build. The data works out so that both builds result in identical wattage being pushed through the coils. So the difference between them is the amperage and the amount of kanthal used to make each coil. Will these vapes be different. I say yes. The reason I asked this was to settle a debate.

Absolutely... not to get cliche with the analogies... but... To me, that question boils down to something along the lines of this...

If I ride my bike 5 miles at 15mph using ONLY 12th gear, and then I ride my bike 5 miles using ONLY 1st gear... If my caloric energy burnt remains the same, since I'm doing the same amount of work (lower gear means more revs, but much easier to do so versus higher gear means much harder to push pedals but have to do it a fraction of the time) will my bike ride be exactly the same? And the answer is... absolutely not... The rides will be very different.

 

[HauntedMyst]

I'd like a definitive answer once and for all: do amps matter?

A good way to find out is to pee on the third rail. That will tell you everything you need to know.

 

[dr g]

Saying two seperate batteries are being employed is a much smaller difference than saying one is a mech mod and one is a regulated device...
Also, as is clearly stated in the quote above I referred to the power cells in the plural, not that this makes any real difference, I just find it amusing when someone is so self assured that they believe they know what other people are saying even better than the person themselves

Actually there's not much difference, both are irrelevant. That's why I can be assured I am giving a correct answer regardless. Regarding the battery, note I also gave the alternative, that your thinking is badly muddled, and that turned out to be the case. You are doing a very poor job of isolating variables and organizing your analysis.

Why can't I have a power source that puts out 13 volts? I think that we are getting caught up in the minutia. Those figures were just random, chosen to give a concrete example. The question is if there's a low-ohm/standard voltage build (ie 4 volts) and then there's a high-ohm/high voltage build. The data works out so that both builds result in identical wattage being pushed through the coils. So the difference between them is the amperage and the amount of kanthal used to make each coil. Will these vapes be different. I say yes. The reason I asked this was to settle a debate.

I specified in my answer to you that you CAN have a power source putting out 13 volts and the answer would still be the same. It ALL depends on the build, not the power, which will be similar regardless of the amperage. So no, amps do not matter by themselves, it's all about the build.

 

[Alien Traveler]

if your using the same diameter coil in both builds the .25 ohm coil will be 12 times smaller than the three ohm coil.
putting roughly 3 and a half times more amperage through a coil one 1/12 the size results in a significant increase in heat resulting in OMG sized clouds as
opposed to woe thats cool looking clouds.

regards
mike

Nope. If we have the same watts we have the same heat production. Simple.
Heating elements are characterized by wattage, not by coil length.
As for vapor production – it could be a bit different story, it can depend on configuration of coil, but which setup is more effective I have no idea. Short coil – more concentrated heat, long coil – it is a bit more distributed.

 

[skoony]

Actually there's not much difference, both are irrelevant. That's why I can be assured I am giving a correct answer regardless. Regarding the battery, note I also gave the alternative, that your thinking is badly muddled, and that turned out to be the case. You are doing a very poor job of isolating variables and organizing your analysis.



I specified in my answer to you that you CAN have a power source putting out 13 volts and the answer would still be the same. It ALL depends on the build, not the power, which will be similar regardless of the amperage. So no, amps do not matter by themselves, it's all about the build.

what are you saying? 65 watts of power going through a coil 1/12 the size of a reference coil is going to be hotter.
more current more heat using the same gauge coil.
regards
mike

 

[VapoJoe86]

Think about it like this: If you are pushing 12 watts through a 1 ohm coil, you will have less surface area to disperse that 12 watts than if you had used a 2 ohm coil. Therefore, the 1 ohm coil will produce a noticeably different vape. Disclaimer: I might be wrong about this.

 

[dr g]

what are you saying? 65 watts of power going through a coil 1/12 the size of a reference coil is going to be hotter.
more current more heat using the same gauge coil.
regards
mike

The coil design is not a constant. Coils can be made in many ways to achieve the same resistance.

Think about it like that: If you are pushing 12 watts through a 1 ohm coil, you will have less surface area to disperse that 12 watts than if you had used a 2 ohm coil. Therefore, the 1 ohm coil will produce a noticeably different vape. Disclaimer: I might be wrong about this.

You are right that you might be wrong about this. To increase resistance you can increase the length of a given wire gauge, so more surface area, or go to a thinner gauge of wire, so less surface area.

Build is everything.

 

[Alien Traveler]

Longer – shorter…
Suppose we have huge (and safe, I should add) battery. Suppose we want to test two coils at different wattage. I believe in the beginning shorter (low ohm) coil will be winning – thanks to more concentrated heat it will be more effective in evaporating liquid. Soon short coil will reach its limit – it will start to burn juice, but long coil still could be heated more. At some point its vapor production will exceed that of short coil. So, long coil and good source of energy sure better than short coil and small battery. Just take a look at electric stove.

In vaping gear we are limited by voltage (do you want to put in your mouth a 110 V device?) and safety of batteries. Hence – subohming.

 

[WattWick]

You can have two different coils with the same resistance. What you cannot have is two identical coils with different resistance. Different coils -> different vape.

I aware this has been stated several times already. Just trying to chop it down to bite sized chunks.

 

[readeuler]

I think the issue is that the title, and question, is misleading. Do amps matter (to vapor production)? No. Do all the other factors that go into vaping, which leads to different coils with identical amp draw? Yes.

 

[UncleChuck]

It appears things are getting way more complex than the OP was looking for....

If I understood the question correctly, the OP is wondering what type of difference there will be in the vape, if you compare a low resistance/low voltage build (Mech) to a high resistance/high voltage build (APV) at the same power level.

Simply put, there are too many variables to isolate the answer you are looking for.

To achieve the same power levels, the wire used and/or size of coil will be different between the LR/LV and HR/HV. This introduces tons of variance in performance, so it's just not possible to answer definitively. The only way to directly compare a HV/HR setup to a LR/LV setup is to match the coil exactly, but if you match the coil exactly it's impossible to change the resistance of the coil, and the comparison cannot take place.

Ignore amperage for anything other than checking the safety of your setup. It has no use to vapers other than that.