I'm a mighty pirate!

[AndriaD]

Probably you're right,that point of view makes sense. All the cigalikeness without associated smoke taste may be making things harder. On the other hand,I may have not switched to vaping if my first try was something absolutely different from analogs. Also,it's still a wonder to me how people are "soft-switching" to vaping(I mean continuing to smoke a few analogs in the beginning) - I feel like if I smoke a cigarette now,vaping would taste too light...

It turned out to be just the opposite for me -- but then, I smoked ultra-lights, and sometime during my *first* "last week as a smoker" I realized that I got not only better taste from the vape, but better throat-hit too -- the cigarettes were pretty much nothing but a bad stink after I'd been vaping for about a month, I really couldn't taste them or even feel the smoke in my mouth/throat.

My question about vaping more than smoking(as well as fast food comparison) primarily was about nicotine overdose. It always feels like I'm not getting enough,and then,after quite long time of vaping,it feels like I had too much.
When I was smoking,I had "rituals" like smoking after meal,when taking a break at work,after a bath,etc. Now I'm doing the same things,but with vaping,PLUS I also vape when in my bedroom,at work,etc - hence the overdose thing.

Very common when one starts vaping, as vapor is so much more slowly absorbed than smoke; it's really just a matter of getting accustomed to the fact that one doesn't get that "rush" (which I haven't actually felt in about 40 yrs!), that the satisfaction from vaping takes longer; once you get accustomed to that, it's easier to relax and not go chainvaping-crazy, and once you can be more relaxed with it, you can raise the nic level yet not get "nic sick." I had to start at 6mg, I chainvaped so constantly and continually, but now I'm good with 10mg.

Thanks for reply,Andria!
When did you start making DIY's? Where do you get your flavor extracts and how do you store them? I guess it's cheaper and gives more freedom of customization to make your own liquids,but do flavor extracts store well for longer periods of time?...
I can perfectly understand vaping non-tobacco juices,I started with a cola one and thought it's great to vape it instead of smoking cigs and drinking cola...2in1...Actually, I'm even using a Zeus' strawberry milkshake as a non-tobacco alternative right now,great so far. Seems I'm starting to follow your and CES' advice,after all.

I don't know anything about dripping atomizers,most google links send me to stores that sell them,- is it an atomizer where you drip liquid on it just to test it?.. Or can it be used like normal one?

About kayfuns - yeah,I heard they're great,but can't find any original ones available anyway; some sites that are currently out of stock still point that the price is around 250$... I also read on some forum a post where a chinese clone was compared with original one,and they are almost the same. I think I'll get a clone or two once I have a mod to attach it to. Or maybe a kanger Neal mentioned,if I don't find good quality kayfun clone around...btw,maybe theres anything good to say about joye's deltas?

I was semi-DIYing almost from the beginning, when I realized I needed at least 80% PG, if not 85%; most commercial ejuice isn't that high in PG. Then I went to an odd nic level (8 or 9 mg) and had to mix several juices to get that; later I added WTA, until finally I was mixing so much stuff I figured what the hell, I might as well DIY from scratch.

Flavors themselves will last virtually indefinitely. I just store them in a cupboard -- they're food flavors, after all. It's only the nicotine that can cause oxidation, degradation, etc. I keep my nicotine stored in the freezer; the small bottle I'm actually using out of, in the fridge, and everything else in the cupboard.

Yes, a dripping atomizer is for dripping the juice directly, and many have a small "well" which means you don't need to re-drip for every hit, but maybe only every half-hour or so -- that's the only kind I'll buy. They're great for tasting, because the flavor is very strong and true, which is why some love them for just "regular vaping." They're also good if you use a high-VG liquid, since they're just easier for thicker liquids.

I've never bought an "authentic" kayfun, and probably never will; I don't have disposable triple-digit funds. I prefer the Tobeco kayfun clones, a "Kayfun Lite Plus" a/k/a KFL+ -- nothing wrong with the EHPro KFL+ clones, but I prefer the Tobecos. The older models (KFL+ rather than kayfun v4) are around $15-$20 now.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

BTW, one question I forgot about -- I get my flavors generally from either bullcityvapor.com or ecigexpress.com -- there are a lot of others, and even some others that are probably just as good, if not better, I've just gotten accustomed to those two vendors and their prices, shipping speed, available brands, etc -- they have good prices, their shipping is adequate or better, and I can find the flavors I need between the two. also Wizard Labs has a good selection of flavors, but I think they only sell them in 8ml vials, so they're good for tasting, but not much else -- and for small bottles, bullcityvapor is actually better on price. However wiz labs has nicotine for reasonable prices; I usually get my nicotine from vaperstek.org; they have a "throat hit nicotine" for $10 for 120ml, which is by far the best price I've seen for small size bottles, and I love me some throat hit.

Andria

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

I put them in a baggie, and left them in the crisper drawer (didn't eat many fresh veggies then). If anything the liquid tastes better than when it went in there, but I believe that's because back in 2012 I was using cartridges, when I revisited the liquids I was using much better-performing equipment. Certainly still vapeable, but e-liquids have come a long way since then!

I can't guarantee that the more complex juices available today will act the same, but I would guess the risk of them going really bad is probably very low.

Thanks a lot for clarifying,I'm happy I know now my liquids will last long enough!

i think you just have to be careful about condensation if you're opening refrigerated liquids frequently. Extra water from condensation isn't going to help the flavor much.

Yes,I remember you said that in some previous post,I make sure I store only non-ADV liquid in the fridge now.

It turned out to be just the opposite for me -- but then, I smoked ultra-lights, and sometime during my *first* "last week as a smoker" I realized that I got not only better taste from the vape, but better throat-hit too -- the cigarettes were pretty much nothing but a bad stink after I'd been vaping for about a month, I really couldn't taste them or even feel the smoke in my mouth/throat.

Very common when one starts vaping, as vapor is so much more slowly absorbed than smoke; it's really just a matter of getting accustomed to the fact that one doesn't get that "rush" (which I haven't actually felt in about 40 yrs!), that the satisfaction from vaping takes longer; once you get accustomed to that, it's easier to relax and not go chainvaping-crazy, and once you can be more relaxed with it, you can raise the nic level yet not get "nic sick." I had to start at 6mg, I chainvaped so constantly and continually, but now I'm good with 10mg.

I was semi-DIYing almost from the beginning, when I realized I needed at least 80% PG, if not 85%; most commercial ejuice isn't that high in PG. Then I went to an odd nic level (8 or 9 mg) and had to mix several juices to get that; later I added WTA, until finally I was mixing so much stuff I figured what the hell, I might as well DIY from scratch.

Flavors themselves will last virtually indefinitely. I just store them in a cupboard -- they're food flavors, after all. It's only the nicotine that can cause oxidation, degradation, etc. I keep my nicotine stored in the freezer; the small bottle I'm actually using out of, in the fridge, and everything else in the cupboard.

Yes, a dripping atomizer is for dripping the juice directly, and many have a small "well" which means you don't need to re-drip for every hit, but maybe only every half-hour or so -- that's the only kind I'll buy. They're great for tasting, because the flavor is very strong and true, which is why some love them for just "regular vaping." They're also good if you use a high-VG liquid, since they're just easier for thicker liquids.

I've never bought an "authentic" kayfun, and probably never will; I don't have disposable triple-digit funds. I prefer the Tobeco kayfun clones, a "Kayfun Lite Plus" a/k/a KFL+ -- nothing wrong with the EHPro KFL+ clones, but I prefer the Tobecos. The older models (KFL+ rather than kayfun v4) are around $15-$20 now.

Andria

Big thanks for helping me out,Andria!

It's great you so precisely understood what I'm taking about - the time it takes to feel nic effects and the difference between its absorption methods. Today I took longer breaks between puff-sessions and felt the difference - I even think I may already try lower nic concentrations(lower nic means more time simply enjoying the flavor,yay). I guess after that I'll be able to fine-tune my new hobby..
AND,using DIY methods you're using,I won't have to reorder all the flavors I like at other nic levels!
BTW,do you still use WTA's? Do they really make difference?
Another huge thank you for telling about flavorings' storage,- when I run out of my currently bought bottles, I know I will follow DIY path - it's so much easier not to worry at all about liquid\flavor lifespan this way! Even though twgbonehead calmed down my worries a bit about premade-liquid storage,there's never a guarantee(as he himself mentioned it).

Dripping atomizers sound very useful,especially with all DIY tests - will have to buy some once I get money for all the other supplies(been a bit over-limit with e-liquid ordering frenzy); thanks a lot for thorough description,I still was a bit shy with that somewhat noobish question;hadn't CES told me my questions are good,I wouldn't dare to ask .

Since kayfun clones(can't say what brand that was that I mentioned,though) are pretty much the same,it'd be a waste of money to buy an original one,it seems.

BTW, one question I forgot about -- I get my flavors generally from either bullcityvapor.com or ecigexpress.com -- there are a lot of others, and even some others that are probably just as good, if not better, I've just gotten accustomed to those two vendors and their prices, shipping speed, available brands, etc -- they have good prices, their shipping is adequate or better, and I can find the flavors I need between the two. also Wizard Labs has a good selection of flavors, but I think they only sell them in 8ml vials, so they're good for tasting, but not much else -- and for small bottles, bullcityvapor is actually better on price. However wiz labs has nicotine for reasonable prices; I usually get my nicotine from vaperstek.org; they have a "throat hit nicotine" for $10 for 120ml, which is by far the best price I've seen for small size bottles, and I love me some throat hit.

Andria

Ecigexpress seems to offer international shipping,thats great news for me! Alas,the other two seem not.. BTW,I checked Wizard Labs' site,and they have a page with 30ml vials.
Seems I'll have to search for some more DIY supplies shops with international shipping ,especilly since I'm not sure nicotine can be brought from overseas,but I'm sure I'll find some local shop.
But maybe you can point some manufacturers who make great flavorings? For example,what brand would you recommend for making milkshake-type liquids,whose fruit flavorings taste better in your opinion,which one's cola flavor's better?(if you used cola flavor,of course)

I definitely learned a lot from you today,Andria,and thanks so much for your patience!

 

[AndriaD]

Big thanks for helping me out,Andria!

It's great you so precisely understood what I'm taking about - the time it takes to feel nic effects and the difference between its absorption methods. Today I took longer breaks between puff-sessions and felt the difference - I even think I may already try lower nic concentrations(lower nic means more time simply enjoying the flavor,yay). I guess after that I'll be able to fine-tune my new hobby..
AND,using DIY methods you're using,I won't have to reorder all the flavors I like at other nic levels!
BTW,do you still use WTA's? Do they really make difference?

For me, WTA made a HUGE difference -- when I first started, giving up cigs after about 3-4 wks of vaping was very easy, because of what I mentioned about no longer really getting anything but a bad stink from cigarettes. However I had an emergency appendectomy after I'd been smoke-free about 3.5 months, and in the aftermath I was so godawful sick, I couldn't eat or vape for 4 days, and between lack of nicotine and all the goings-on in my colon, cravings set in so badly, I went back to smoking for a month -- though still vaping, trying to vape more and smoke less until I finally retired the cigarettes again -- but 10 days later, though I was delighted to be smoke-free again, the cravings came back even more viciously -- so I started using WTA, which completely eliminated those cravings.

For about 5 months I stayed at the same 10% level (WTA was 10% of my total vape), but since January have been reducing by one percentage point a month -- I'm at 5% now; should be done with WTA as a regular part of my vape by the end of September -- but I plan to keep some onhand, because if any cravings hit me, I'd far rather vape WTA than EVER smoke another cigarette -- I saw how fast they got their hooks back in, and how hard it was to lay them down a 2nd time, and I never want to do that again. But WTA won't do anything at all for psychological cravings, only for physical cravings -- after 20+ yrs of ultra-lights, my nic dependence is not terribly great, but my dependence on all the other alkaloids was apparently very high, so I'm reducing it VERY slowly, to let my brain get accustomed at a pace that won't freak it out. People with some particular disorders -- IBS, ulcerative colitis, various inflammatory conditions, and a wide assortment of mental/emotional disorders -- seem to have the most need of WTA, and get the most benefit from it, but anyone who has serious cravings that are NOT psychological can benefit from it.

Dripping atomizers sound very useful,especially with all DIY tests - will have to buy some once I get money for all the other supplies(been a bit over-limit with e-liquid ordering frenzy); thanks a lot for thorough description,I still was a bit shy with that somewhat noobish question;hadn't CES told me my questions are good,I wouldn't dare to ask .

Since kayfun clones(can't say what brand that was that I mentioned,though) are pretty much the same,it'd be a waste of money to buy an original one,it seems.

Don't be afraid to ask anything around here -- we were all newbies once, and can surely help with most questions/problems that new newbies run into. This stuff isn't really hard to learn, but it's hard to know where to start, and lord knows vapers have their own jargon which can be utterly impenetrable to those "not in the know." Ask away!!

And actually I wouldn't say that all Kayfun clones are the same; I got one, early on, that completely sucked -- I don't know who made it, but it wasn't Tobeco or EHPro. It had so little airflow that every wick I ever put in it just burned. So now I will ONLY buy Tobeco (preferred) or EHPro clones. I have some other EHpro items; one of my mechs is by them, so I know they make good stuff; I just find the Tobecos better, with Kayfuns; slightly better airflow, slightly smoother threads, and when you unscrew the base in order to get at the coil, with a Tobeco it's a very smooth and easy operation; with an EHpro, it often unscrews the top of the chimney, it's so securely caught in the top o-ring. Also, the Tobecos allow you to loosen/extend the 510 screw, if you need it to be a bit longer to reach the battery post; if you do that to an EHpro -- or an authentic kayfun -- it will also loosen the coil-mounting block, so that the coil wiggles around and plays hell with the resistance.

Andria

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

For me, WTA made a HUGE difference -- when I first started, giving up cigs after about 3-4 wks of vaping was very easy, because of what I mentioned about no longer really getting anything but a bad stink from cigarettes. However I had an emergency appendectomy after I'd been smoke-free about 3.5 months, and in the aftermath I was so godawful sick, I couldn't eat or vape for 4 days, and between lack of nicotine and all the goings-on in my colon, cravings set in so badly, I went back to smoking for a month -- though still vaping, trying to vape more and smoke less until I finally retired the cigarettes again -- but 10 days later, though I was delighted to be smoke-free again, the cravings came back even more viciously -- so I started using WTA, which completely eliminated those cravings.

For about 5 months I stayed at the same 10% level (WTA was 10% of my total vape), but since January have been reducing by one percentage point a month -- I'm at 5% now; should be done with WTA as a regular part of my vape by the end of September -- but I plan to keep some onhand, because if any cravings hit me, I'd far rather vape WTA than EVER smoke another cigarette -- I saw how fast they got their hooks back in, and how hard it was to lay them down a 2nd time, and I never want to do that again. But WTA won't do anything at all for psychological cravings, only for physical cravings -- after 20+ yrs of ultra-lights, my nic dependence is not terribly great, but my dependence on all the other alkaloids was apparently very high, so I'm reducing it VERY slowly, to let my brain get accustomed at a pace that won't freak it out. People with some particular disorders -- IBS, ulcerative colitis, various inflammatory conditions, and a wide assortment of mental/emotional disorders -- seem to have the most need of WTA, and get the most benefit from it, but anyone who has serious cravings that are NOT psychological can benefit from it.

Don't be afraid to ask anything around here -- we were all newbies once, and can surely help with most questions/problems that new newbies run into. This stuff isn't really hard to learn, but it's hard to know where to start, and lord knows vapers have their own jargon which can be utterly impenetrable to those "not in the know." Ask away!!

And actually I wouldn't say that all Kayfun clones are the same; I got one, early on, that completely sucked -- I don't know who made it, but it wasn't Tobeco or EHPro. It had so little airflow that every wick I ever put in it just burned. So now I will ONLY buy Tobeco (preferred) or EHPro clones. I have some other EHpro items; one of my mechs is by them, so I know they make good stuff; I just find the Tobecos better, with Kayfuns; slightly better airflow, slightly smoother threads, and when you unscrew the base in order to get at the coil, with a Tobeco it's a very smooth and easy operation; with an EHpro, it often unscrews the top of the chimney, it's so securely caught in the top o-ring. Also, the Tobecos allow you to loosen/extend the 510 screw, if you need it to be a bit longer to reach the battery post; if you do that to an EHpro -- or an authentic kayfun -- it will also loosen the coil-mounting block, so that the coil wiggles around and plays hell with the resistance.

Andria

I think I understand your pain - my first quitting attempt(did cold turkey w/o vaping that time,though) was as well "interrupted" by surgery(it was eyes one though). It's quite ironic that to start smoking again one has to spend some time with doctors,heh.
I've already assembled a list of to-buys,put WTA's in it as well,just in case. As you mentioned,it's better than going back to analogs.
I can't stop saying thanks for all the knowledge and support I get. With all the recent global message board "google it yoursef" trends I'm sure I'm not the only one feeling grateful for thorough answers I get.
Answers like yours save people tons of time and money,once I have the money I'll surely try a Tobeco kayfun clone,so,big thanks again! And stay healthy!

Oh,and I think I lost my question somewhere in my wall of text - can you recommend flavor extracts manufacturers you use in your milkshake-type liquids,fruit flavors and cola ones,if you use such? I will search the forums,I saw such threads somewhere,but I'm curious what brands do you personally use?

 

[AndriaD]

I think I understand your pain - my first quitting attempt(did cold turkey w/o vaping that time,though) was as well "interrupted" by surgery(it was eyes one though). It's quite ironic that to start smoking again one has to spend some time with doctors,heh.
I've already assembled a list of to-buys,put WTA's in it as well,just in case. As you mentioned,it's better than going back to analogs.
I can't stop saying thanks for all the knowledge and support I get. With all the recent global message board "google it yoursef" trends I'm sure I'm not the only one feeling grateful for thorough answers I get.
Answers like yours save people tons of time and money,once I have the money I'll surely try a Tobeco kayfun clone,so,big thanks again! And stay healthy!

Oh,and I think I lost my question somewhere in my wall of text - can you recommend flavor extracts manufacturers you use in your milkshake-type liquids,fruit flavors and cola ones,if you use such? I will search the forums,I saw such threads somewhere,but I'm curious what brands do you personally use?

For creams and vanillas, I'm really picky, because of my desire to avoid diketones (diacetyl, et al); I've found that The Flavor Apprentice has some good ones, but you have be careful which ones you pick, to avoid diketones. I use Vanilla Swirl (custard minus diketones), DX Bavarian Cream (the "DX" line is their version of their previous flavors, with diketones removed); also, TFA's Sweetener is much better than other sucralose sweeteners; I tried another brand and it had a very artificial taste to it, but TFA's is just sweet, no artificial taste.

Sweet Cream is also a necessary flavor in a lot of recipes, but TFA's has diketones; I use Capella's Sweet Cream which I believe is diketone-free, and it has a very true, authentic flavor -- 2 drops in a glass of 2% milk makes it taste just like whole milk. I'm less impressed with some of Capella's other flavors, though they do have a loyal following.

TFA's "Blueberry Extra" is also a very good, authentic flavor. For strawberry, I prefer Inawera's Shisha Strawberry; bullcityvapor.com describes it as "sweet strawberries dipped in sugar" and that's exactly how it tastes.

Those are really the only flavors I've had experience with, so far; Inawera also has some good coffee and tobacco flavors.

For more info about the diketone situation, search for "diketones" here at ECF; you'll find a ton of threads. Some think it's hype that isn't to be worried about; others think it ought to be banned everywhere in everything. I fall somewhere in the middle; if others want to use it in their vapes, I don't care; it's their lungs, not mine. I prefer to avoid it, as I have asthma, and don't need anything further that could *potentially* damage my lungs -- one of the other reasons I started doing from-scratch DIY; it gives me just a bit more control of what is going into my ejuice.

For lots more info about DIY, I'd highly recommend the flavor apprentice thread; it's mostly about TFA flavors, but there is some info that is more general, and also some info about other brands' flavors. The most important info I picked up in that thread is about using creams/vanillas/sweetener as the "base" notes, to make the primary flavors really pop; and also about "high flavor mixing", using 25%-30% total flavoring to avoid or drastically lessen the "steep" (aging) time till it tastes really good.

Andria

 

[blivey]

Dripping atomizers sound very useful,especially with all DIY tests - will have to buy some once I get money for all the other supplies(been a bit over-limit with e-liquid ordering frenzy); thanks a lot for thorough description,I still was a bit shy with that somewhat noobish question;hadn't CES told me my questions are good,I wouldn't dare to ask .

I got a cheap mini rda to test my juices and now I actually using for vaping everything that doesn't go into my subtank. They run a little less than $3 on fasttech or you can get them for around $8 on ebay
Fasttech-
$2.83 RDA Mini Rebuildable Dripping Atomizer (1.0mL) - 2.4Ω / silver / 1*airhole at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
ebay-
Mini RDA Rebuildable Dripping Atomizer USA Seller E Liq | eBay