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SABOTEUR

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A Congressional vaper.

Very encouraging.

I was thinking about what we might be able to do to build awareness and support for electronic cigarettes when the idea of an online petition of some kind could be started. Then I decided to see whether an e-cigarette petition has already been started and found one.

Their goal is to accumulate 10,000 signatures.

To date, it has a grand total of 35.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm adding my signature once I finish this post.

Here's the URL: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/keep-life-saving-electronic-cigarettes-available
 

SABOTEUR

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I almost added my name to that petition (even though I'm from the UK),
but then I thought 'what do I know about care2' ?
Is this an effective mechanism, or just something that the FDA would laugh at?

There will be nothing to laugh at if there's no demonstrative support.

Don't like that petition? Generate one of your own.

Whatever we do, we don't want to find ourselves sucking analogs again, chanting would'a, could'a, should'a...didn't.
 

SABOTEUR

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That's actually what I mean, not the effectiveness of petitions as such,
but the fact that it's a 'petition generator site',
& so would anything from it be it be taken seriously?

Your point is well taken, exogenesis. The only thing I ask is can we come up with something better?

Create the type of petition you think is most effective. I'll support that too. See...I'm not here to debate about this thing, I just want to throw my support behind anyone or anything that will increase the likelihood I won't have to go back to smoking cigarettes.

I'm sure any constructive idea or proposal you have will be greatly appreciated.
 

first2di3

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TropicalBob

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Imagine you're in a court. Because that's where we are, in essence. Just the name of the petition will draw a quick rebuttal and "inadmissible" rejection.

"Counselor, you call this 'life saving'. How has it been determined that the use of electronic cigarettes is 'life saving' in any way? What long-range studies can you site to sustain that allegation? You, sir, cannot. There is no merit to your claim."

Do not claim what cannot be proven; do not ask for faith as a basis for action.

Petitions worded this way will be rejected as not worthy of intelligent consideration.
 

LaceyUnderall

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Do not claim what cannot be proven; do not ask for faith as a basis for action.

Petitions worded this way will be rejected as not worthy of intelligent consideration.

Agreed the petition isn't exactly worded beautifully, however, faith is what drives many of the issues we see in the US. Would gays have to fight for their right to equality if it weren't for the Faith of others who think what they are doing is against their God's word? Passion and Faith are often confused.
 

LaceyUnderall

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Totally irrelevant. Faith has a place. But not as a basis for regulation.

I agree with you completely that faith has a place and is not a basis for regulation. However, in the US, faith is what drives regulation. Unfortunately, there is nothing that can be done because we simply do not have a separation of Church and State, even though it clearly states we should.
 

first2di3

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Imagine you're in a court. Because that's where we are, in essence. Just the name of the petition will draw a quick rebuttal and "inadmissible" rejection.

"Counselor, you call this 'life saving'. How has it been determined that the use of electronic cigarettes is 'life saving' in any way? What long-range studies can you site to sustain that allegation? You, sir, cannot. There is no merit to your claim."

Do not claim what cannot be proven; do not ask for faith as a basis for action.

Petitions worded this way will be rejected as not worthy of intelligent consideration.


I didn't make the petition... I just figured if someone else made it, and there's already almost 100 people signed up, why bother creating another one. Might as well do what I can to get people to sign it.

I completely agree with your statement. I have been lurking on the forum for almost 2 months now. Knowing that you have been at this for a while, and me, who just got what I would call my first electronic cigarette in the mail yesterday, haven't been in on this for a while, but all the same I want to try to help keep e-cigs from being another GREAT Idea that was squashed because the people in power didn't bother looking at facts or conducting tests to find out what the facts ARE.

The greatest crime against humanity is ignorance... :mad:
 

leaford

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It's not a matter of wording. An online petition will accomplish nothing. It doesn't even serve as a demonstration of support. Except to us, maybe. But it won't affect the FDA, or congress, one bit. Nor should it. Anyone can sign on online poll, it's unverifiable. Besides, online or not, public petitions just aren't part of the FDA approval process. So, it's pretty much pointless.
 

LaceyUnderall

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It's not a matter of wording. An online petition will accomplish nothing. It doesn't even serve as a demonstration of support. Except to us, maybe. But it won't affect the FDA, or congress, one bit. Nor should it. Anyone can sign on online poll, it's unverifiable. Besides, online or not, public petitions just aren't part of the FDA approval process. So, it's pretty much pointless.

But it makes people feel as if they are doing something and signing one petition might lead to a letter then to a phone call ;) Being active takes baby steps and while you may be totally right, it is a great motivational tool.

Around here, I read a lot of discussion and don't really see a lot of doing... so I am happy to see this.:)
 

Sun Vaporer

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Jan 2, 2009
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Imagine you're in a court. Because that's where we are, in essence. Just the name of the petition will draw a quick rebuttal and "inadmissible" rejection.

"Counselor, you call this 'life saving'. How has it been determined that the use of electronic cigarettes is 'life saving' in any way? What long-range studies can you site to sustain that allegation? You, sir, cannot. There is no merit to your claim."

Do not claim what cannot be proven; do not ask for faith as a basis for action.

Petitions worded this way will be rejected as not worthy of intelligent consideration.


Yes TB--but the case would be Summary Judgmented right out before it even got started. Agencies like the FDA are given the broadest of powers to function and the widest of due deference is given to them. No Court would ever intervene into an FDA saftey mandate if it was challanged without some unrefuted clear and convicing evidence that the FDA abused its power.

Where is this striking evidence? It does not exist. Unfortunalty I see nothing to fight the FDA with. A petition is really of very little value---but then again---why not. You never give up on any avenue so I do support a petition or any other measure that would help the cause------Sun
 

TropicalBob

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Leaford: Totally correct.

I'm going to post this here because the other thread is an out-of-control "sue the senator" etc mess of extreme views.

Let's assume Big Pharma contributes to a campaign (most campaigns, I would imagine). For that contribution, they do not expect direct action. But they do expect to get a senator's "ear" when a matter affecting their business arises. So what would they say to the senator about electronic cigarettes?

"Senator, we have numerous nicotine replacement products on the market today, for which we spent untold millions of research dollars in order to assure public safety and gain FDA approval of our drugs. These products are not to replace cigarettes, but to wean smokers away from that deadly addiction. We consider that a good thing.

"Now we are faced with a new Chinese-made toy cigarette that delivers an unapproved nicotine mixture as vapor to smokers. What studies have been done on this drug-delivery device? Has this new drug cocktail been approved? What studies assure the liquid used is safe as manufactured? What assurance do you have -- unlike the studies we paid so dearly for -- that these are suitable and safe? You have none. You are allowing competitors from China to siphon off money that should be used to quit smoking, not continue an addiction. And you are allowing this without any studied approval. That's unconscionable. These should be banned today."

Unreasonable? Nope. What's good for the goose, etc ..

Big tobacco has paid dearly, too, hasn't it. Bad as it is, it doesn't have its hands stuck out for Uncle Sam to bail it out with billions of taxpayer dollars. No, it has had to endure imposed smoking bans that have shrunk the number of smokers. It now faces yet another huge tax increase -- none of the new money to pay for smoking-related diseases -- that will drive still more smokers off tobacco. So it has a case:

"Senator, I know you don't like us. I know you've authored a number of no-smoking laws. But let's be fair. A cigarette, some have said, is a self-contained dose of nicotine for an addict. As such, it's taxed at far more than the cost of its marketing. It's taxed to such an extreme that some smokers can no longer afford to smoke, but must instead suffer. Now along comes a Chinese gizmo that looks like a cigarette and delivers a self-contained dose of nicotine. Yet it has no taxes beyond sales tax, if that. Is that fair? All we want is to level the field of play here. The only right thing to do is to remove this unfair player or tax it to high heaven, as you do our products."

Unreasonable position? Not at all.

And those campaign contributions assure the ears of the important will listen. Better word our arguments very, very carefully or they'll just be a whisper in a whirlwind.
 

The Wiz

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Wow....I'm a bit disapointed with some of the members here. I see nothing wrong with the petition at all.All the talk of the "launguage".....if someone had a better aproach to writing it..why didn't they do that themselves?At this point in time nothing can hurt the cause. I would much rather sign this petition,which gives me some relief form my worries,than thinking all day what my life will be like when I am smoking analogs again.I think this is good fight..as long as no one gets hurt! I signed the petition..and would encourage all to do so...My opinion! The Wiz!
 

Sun Vaporer

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Jan 2, 2009
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Wow....I'm a bit disapointed with some of the members here. I see nothing wrong with the petition at all.All the talk of the "launguage".....if someone had a better aproach to writing it..why didn't they do that themselves?At this point in time nothing can hurt the cause. I would much rather sign this petition,which gives me some relief form my worries,than thinking all day what my life will be like when I am smoking analogs again.I think this is good fight..as long as no one gets hurt! I signed the petition..and would encourage all to do so...My opinion! The Wiz!

Wiz--you are correct--just because it "may" not help--does not mean it should be dismissed!!!!!!!!! Does not take more then a few seconds to sign a petition--where is the harm????--Sun
 
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