Induction into the world of VV. Need tips.

[Nedus Mustafus]

Hi there, ECF.

As you can see by my shameless plugs, I am a Reo user. For the past year and a half, I have been happily vaping my brains out using my Reo Grand. However, just like the girlfriend that you spend way too much time with, I have grown tired of my standby. The Grand still hits like a charm with it's Cisco LR 306's, but the bottom-feeding is frankly beginning to wear on me. It's handy, but I apparently like to "squonk" a bit too much and more juice ends up on me than in my lungs, and I am not a fan of this.

I've noticed that VV seems to have come a long way since I've last posted on the forums. Even eGo is in on the act now, to my surprise. Back in the day, it seemed one had to stack batteries to attain VV... not anymore.

So, I am having thoughts of cheating on my beloved, the Reo Grand. I know Reo is coming out with a VV soon... not really interested in that. I'm interested to see what you fine folks have to say about recommendations for a beginner VV device. The Provari is quite shiny and pretty, but it's sort of large and my wallet really doesn't have the hole burning in it to warrant one of those (new homeowner... been in it less than 2 months... mortgage's SUCK!) I really like the looks of the eGo-C Twist. I have a co-worker who has one and he seems to be quite enthralled with it. I like the price of the Twists and the ability to recharge via USB. I work around a computer, so that's a big drawing point for me. I would also enjoy the smaller size a Twist would offer over the Reo Grand. I use the Grand with a 306 and a short drip tip, so it fits in my shirt pocket nicely.

I've read things about Lavatubes, Provari's, Darwin's, and all sorts of other things, which honestly confuse me, but, alas. I'd like some recommendations and tips for a newbie to the world of VV. What is your go-to? Was your first purchase the one that you still use?

If I do decide to pull the trigger on a VV PV, then I suppose we're gonna have to talk about cartomizers. Back in the day before I bought the Reo, I recall using what I think were Boge 510 LR cartos. I wasn't really a fan of those, as the filler material overpowered almost every juice I put in it. A lot of my co-workers have recently adopted an e-cig, and all of them use an eGo with a clearomizer. I have tried out several of their rigs, and I think they are much improved over the cartos I remember using a couple of years ago. I watch PBusardo's reviews a lot, and he seems to really enjoy the Boge cartos... are they different now than they were before? Was I just doing something wrong? I must admit that it is possible that I overfilled the cartos when I was using them, but, other than that, I'm not sure if anything I was doing was causing them to taste gross.

Any and all comments/responses/recommendations/flames are welcome and appreciated.

 

[six]

It's not going to be easy to move from a feeder to a non-feeder. I would personally consider it a big step down... And moving from an atty to clearos or cartos won't be all that much fun either for someone who has gotten used to a 306 over 18 months of use.

That said: Inexpensive VV mods are abundant these days. I have a pair of ego twists. Both of them suffer a little from misaligned buttons that tend to stick, but otherwise operate as expected. The madvapes VV box mod is very capable and in the same price range. The little sister VV from kens box mods is probably the smallest VV device out there right now. It's considerably more expensive, but does have a vericool chip in it for decent battery life and it's really tiny. The VV Box from smoke tech is also a capable VV box and offers better battery life than the madvapes vv box.

I can't help myself even though you indicate some budget constraints: If you're tired of squonking, pushing a pump button might be an alternative. I'm incredibly fond of my notcigs VVPV. It is on the high side of the price range for PVs these days, but there sure is a lot to be said for what a good feeder offers (namely not having to carry supplies around with you and not having to fill cartos or clearos).

 

[SnowDragon]

Why not try and work out a deal with one of your co-workers? Make a trade for a day and see if you like the Twist. That's the funny thing about e-cigs, you'll never know if something is right for you until you try it. Most times we just have to read reviews then lay down our money and take a gamble. Bottom feeders were always the alternative to dripping or filling cartos throughout the day. Since Tanks of all kinds have hit scene the bottom feeder crowd now have many viable alternatives.

Being a long time Reonaut I would think the biggest issue would simply be the form factor or using a Tube style or even a Box style mod.

I can say that I got a 650 mAh Twist a couple of weeks ago and was so impressed I just bought a 1000 mAh today from a local vendor. When paired up with a collar cone and a tank the unit looks pretty slick. The only setback with the Twist is the famous "Ego Button" and the fact that it uses a proprietary battery.

I have a ProVari, Infinity Pro, Vmax V2, and am a former Buzz owner.

Best of luck....

 

[Nedus Mustafus]

Thank you both very much for your responses.

six: It is true that it would be different not using a bottom-feeder any longer, but it isn't something that I couldn't adapt to. I purchased an eGo-C kit in the latest failed attempt to convert my father to vaping, and I "borrowed" one of his batteries for a few days to try it out. It was like a new, shiny toy to me, even though it is inferior in every way to my Reo. I didn't have an issue using the eGo, surprisingly. I expected to catch myself attempting to squonk it. LOL. It is true that I am used to 306's, and I think that might be part of my problem. The 306 is an amazing little thing, but I think I've gotten bored with it. Thank you for your recommendations and input. I will look into these different mods you mention. Size obviously isn't a tremendous issue with me, seeing as how I've been lugging around a Reo Grand for a while now. I essentially refuse to use any mod that doesn't use 18650's... too paranoid, plus I already have all of the stuff I need. It's been a couple of years since I've used a box mod that wasn't made of aluminum... I still have fond memories of my little Bartleby. I overemphasize the "budget constraint" a bit... it isn't that I don't have money, I'm just "tight" with it. LOL. I'm trying to explore a little and decide if I should go ahead and buy a Provari... I've come close several times already, with it in the cart on the site and everything. Those toys definitely catch my eye. I'm not sure if a pump button would alleviate my squonking boredom or not. I think I'm just tired of bottom-feeding, period. I have to carry supplies with me non-stop regardless, as I sometimes get into situations where I have to pull doubles at work. One 18650 is lucky to last me an 8-hour shift.

SnowDragon: I like your idea of borrowing a co-workers Twist. I'm sure I can convince one of them to do that. Tanks have certainly diminished the importance of bottom-feeding, for sure, but I'm not sure if I'd ever be one to use a tank. My job is a bit on the active side, and any e-cig I use gets a lot of pocketing action. I would be way too paranoid of leaking issues with a tank and a pocket. Though this Grand has practically grown to my hand in our time together, like I said above, I don't think I'd have a great issue with using a different PV. I've used a box mod in the past (Bartleby), but never a tube mod. I have taken a drag here and there of the co-worker's eGo's, and I've been thoroughly impressed with them. The gap between my Grand/306 setup and the eGo/CE2 setup isn't as wide as I expected it to be. I'm glad to see that you like your Twist's, but you reminded me of something that was troubling me. I did some research online and found that the 650 mAh Twist battery is roughly the same height as my Reo Grand without an atty/carto attached. It seems the 1000 mAh is about an inch longer than the 650 mAh. Does this size difference feel as dramatic as it sounds? I often wonder if the 1000 mAh Twist is even longer than a Provari... you have both, so you could tell me, if you would feel so inclined. The things you are saying about "collar cones" and whatnot are Greek to me. I'm eGo-stupid. I've only used an eGo-C very briefly, and that was with the horrible default atomizer attached. I've always thought the "eGo button" was a strong point for the device? I know it's nice and clicky, but that's as far as my knowledge goes. The proprietary battery is surely a bummer, but it wouldn't be such an issue for me as I could charge it at work. Really sucks when the battery eventually dies, though. I can see that you are a proud owner of many VV devices, but it sort of troubles me that you are buying Twists when you already have a Provari, which I have gathered to be the "holy grail" of VV. Were the Twists bought out of spontaneity/curiosity, or do you dislike the Provari?

Thanks again to the both of you for your input!

 

[SnowDragon]

There is no difference in length of the ProVari with the extension cap and the Twist 1,000 mAh. They are both approx 4 3/4" in length. The 650 mAh and the ProVari without the extension cap actually seem a lot more odd in my hand because they are smaller.

It's true, I do have quite a few VVs which I listed on another thread and quite a few mechanical mods on top of that. When I run around town I take my Keychain, Egos or KR batts, if I lose one or break one it's not a great monetary loss. I have a Pvari, but my IPro has always been a good VV back-up and alternative since the ProVari is a bit on the heavy side. The Vmax is a replacement for the IPro which I plan on giving to a friend and the Twists were just curiosity. I also sell some of my mods after I play with them for awhile. I just sold my Empire Mod the other day in the classies.

During the summer I wear a lot of nylon short pants, so a heavy mod like a ProVari can be a real drag. I like Tube mods that feel natural when I make a fist so-to-speak wrapping my fingers around the housing and having the button in direct alignment with my thumb. Smaller Mods feel a little weird because of the way my pinky actually goes under the base of the Mod in order to line up my thumb...if that makes any sense.

It's difficult at best to keep up with Ego ___ whatever models that's for sure. Sounds like you tried the Ovale Elips/Ego C/Aurora/???? with that unique atomizer and leaky tank...not a bad vape when it works...but not a PV I would ever own since it is incompatible with a 510/808 fitting. As well it seems like the atomizers cost about as much as the PV itself. I don't want to say it's crap...ah nevermind...truth is...it's crap.

Hopefully you can try out a friends twist and see if it's for you. I do think there is a world of difference between unregulated or regulated 3.7v PVs and VVs, more so for regulated, but even unregulated due to battery fade. I can't remember if the Reos are regulated or not, if so they operate at a steady 3.5v +/- under load for regulated and probably (guessing) 4.1v draining down to 3.4v for unregulated under load before needing to be recharged.

Grimm had a good review of the Twist...he'll show you the collars which cover the ego threads.

THE EGO TWIST IS A GAME CHANGER - YouTube

 

[Nedus Mustafus]

Hi again, SnowDragon! That's very interesting that the 100 mAh and the Provari are the same length. I see you've mentioned that the Provari is a bit on the heavy side. Is it made of metal or plastic? I've held smaller eGo's before, and they didn't seem to be tremendously heavy, although they seemed to be made solid. I tend to agree with your opinion about "smaller" PV's. I think that's one of the many reasons I very rarely use my Reo Mini. Not only does the 18650 of the Grand last much longer, the Grand also just feels better in my hand.

There's nothing wrong with a little exploration in the PV world, I suppose. I have only owned a mini 510, Bartleby, Reo Grand and Reo Mini. I came close to buying an xHaler in the days before the Reo, but I was much too afraid of battery stacking, as I still am. From what I've seen, the Reo Grand VV is apparently going to be two smaller batteries stacked... that's not good, IMHO. Too much room for error.

I'm very accustomed to holding the Reo Grand, which is quite different from most things, seeing as though the button is directly beside the atty connector. I use my index finger to fire the mod, so going back to using my thumb would take a little adjustment. I can recall also using my index finger to fire my Bartleby, though, so perhaps I'm just an index finger sort of guy?

I wear a lot of cargo pants/shorts, and the Reo feels like lugging a brick around when it's in there. I usually keep it in my pants pocket due to this.

It was definitely an eGo-C that I bought for my Dad... that's what it was labeled as, anyway. It has the little syringe-like atomizer and the clear carts that slide down over it. I got way too many dry hits off the thing, but it did pretty well if I dripped on it. I need to figure out a good carto to put on it so my Dad will actually use it and stop smoking. You've confused me about the eGo-C not being compatible with 510/808. Do you have to get an adapter to use 510 fittings? I was under the impression that 510's would fit on it, but, again, I'm not very familiar with the device.

As far as unregulated/regulated go, I'm a little bit in the dark on what you're talking about. The Reo is all-mechanical, so it's very likely unregulated, I suppose. It does fire much better on a fresh battery, and it diminishes noticeably when the battery begins dying. I usually switch batts long before they are completely drained due to this. The LR 306 really does a number, even on AW IMR 18650's.

Thanks for the link to GrimmGreen's Twist review. I remember watching him years ago when he first began doing videos. He seems to be a big fan... I think I could be, too. I'll definitely bum a Twist battery off a co-worker this evening and see what I think. My biggest issue at the moment is whether I want 650 mAh or 1000 mAh.

Thanks again for all of your recommendations and tips. It sounds like I might be a Twist owner soon, and perhaps a Provari owner sometime in the future. Christmas present?

 

[Kevin King]

snow dragon: if the provari is the same size as the 1000mah twist, is the the provari mini the same size as the 650 twist? i sold my LT for the sole fact that it was too big for carrying arounf at work. i dont want the LT mini because of the button placement, so tomorrow i am ordering a provari but i dont know which size would accomodate me the best.

 

[SnowDragon]

snow dragon: if the provari is the same size as the 1000mah twist, is the the provari mini the same size as the 650 twist? i sold my LT for the sole fact that it was too big for carrying arounf at work. i dont want the LT mini because of the button placement, so tomorrow i am ordering a provari but i dont know which size would accomodate me the best.

I don't own a ProVari Mini, however I do know that it utilizes an 18350 battery and a 18490 battery with the extension cap. While the standard uses the 18490 and a 18650 with the extension cap.

Using that as a scale when I take the extension cap off my PVari, then subtract what would be the 18490 extension cap of the mini, the 650 twist would be about the same size.

That being said, the 650 mAh Twist with a collar and a 3.5 Tank is very pocket friendly. I vape about 4-5 mls a day and the 650 last about 10 hours, so if your vaping volume is similar to mine you should be able to get through the work day. I guess you could always stash a 5ml bottle of juice somewhere in case you come up short on juice.

As for buying a ProVari, just keep one thing in mind the Mini uses the 18350/18490 batteries as mentioned above. Neither of these batteries will ever receive upgrades by AW. While the Standard PVari can use the 18650 battery which does receive upgrades for longer performance. 5 months ago the 18650 was a 1600 mAh, then AW released an upgraded 2000 mAh.

I've used the 18350 battery in my old Empire Mod and honestly it only last about 2.5 hours with DCT, the 18490 about 3.5 hours. I exclusively use my PVari with the extension cap and the 18650 2000 mAh batteries.

So..for the same price the Standard imho is the one to get. I'm sure it will just be a matter of time before AW release a 18650 2500 mAh. If you can afford it, get a 650 Twist for work and a Standard PVari for everything else.

 

[Nedus Mustafus]

That was a good question, Kevin, and a good answer by SnowDragon.

SnowDragon, I'm glad to see you refer to the Twist as "pocket friendly." What is this collar you speak of, though? Is it the thing GrimmGreen was talking about in his video that you screw onto the threads to make the eGo look "clean?" Where could I obtain one of those, and what type of tank and carto do you prefer to use on your Twist? I do have a limited familiarity with Boge LR cartos, but a tank is something I have never been exposed to. I've watched a few videos on them, but I'm assuming you have to manually create holes in your carto unless you buy one pre-punched, correct?

 

[SnowDragon]

Nedus, indeed the collar or tank cone is what Grimm was showing in his video. I purchased a straight cone to be used with a 3.5 ml tank from Vapoligy, a local vendor here in town.

There are actually 2 types of collar/cones available, the one I just mentioned for a 3.5 ml tank and the other has a wider flare at the top for a 6 ml tank.

Rob at Smoketek carries the latter...

http://www.smoktek.com/eGo-DCT-Cone-for-6ml-SmokTank--Type-C-_p_195.html

I bought the straight cone since it works well with both Tanks and I plan on using the 3.5 ml Smoketech which shares the same diameter as the Twist. It give the unit a very uniformed look..I can post a pic if you like.

The Smoketech Tanks use a Pre-Punched (I prefer the 2 or 3 hole cartos) XL 510 Carto and for roughly $10.00 work great.

Cartomizers

I have a YT Channel with How-To Videos I do for a company here on the ECF, here is one for filling Tanks.

DVCT Dual Coil Vertical Tank How To Fill - A Quick Tutorial - YouTube

I do advise folks to stay away from the Tanks with the Delrin (Black Plastic) End Caps. These caps as opposed to the metal caps can be affected by juices which leaves me wondering if they are leaching ??? into the juice.

 

[Nedus Mustafus]

There are actually 2 types of collar/cones available, the one I just mentioned for a 3.5 ml tank and the other has a wider flare at the top for a 6 ml tank.

I bought the straight cone since it works well with both Tanks and I plan on using the 3.5 ml Smoketech which shares the same diameter as the Twist. It give the unit a very uniformed look..I can post a pic if you like.

So, the straight cone will work well with BOTH tanks (3.5 AND 6 ml)?

I would certainly think the 3.5 ml would work better for me with a Twist if they are the same diameter. Less room for error with a tank catching on things, i.e. pocket.

The Twist's Grimm were showing in his video with the collar looked rather nice. I might actually give a tank a whirl if it can be uniform and not sticking out from the side of the PV.

Thanks for the links and the recommendations. I will give those a look.

EDIT: Also, I've seen some things about the Delrin end caps affecting juice, but I've also seen the same things about plastic tanks. Seems some are going for the glass tanks due to this. I, of course, have no experience to speak of either way, but it's something to think about.

 

[billherbst]

Nedus,

I won't presume to tell anyone what he should or shouldn't be concerned about. Glass vs. polycarbonate, rubber vs. silicone or delrin---all those are issues for some people. Personally, I haven't noticed any difference in flavor among all the various tanks I own (more than 30 retail or homemade syringe tanks, plus heaven knows how many more I've discarded along the way for one reason or another). As for plastic molecules leeching into the juice and how or to what extent that might be potentially damaging to a vaper's health, I don't know.

What I like about tanks (using filler-type cartos---Boges, SmokTechs, whatever) is that---when they work properly---the vaping experience is terrific. Keeping the filler so saturated does seem to provide a fuller vape than using the carto by itself. Less frequent refilling is another plus for many people. Big difference in capacity between a 5-6ml tank and a 1-1.6ml carto.

What I don't like about tanks is two problems: flooding and spilling. Leaking is not a problem, but flooding is. Something to do with the end caps not sealing correctly, resulting in changes in air pressure inside the tank as the juice is used up. Every tank I own from 3ml on up is liable to flooding, especially as the juice reaches the halfway point. Sure, I can blow out through the excess juice through the connector into a kleenex until there's no more gurgling, but that's wasteful (1/2ml of juice per flooding episode), and even doing that clears the carto for only two or three draws before it floods again. And then I've got a lousy vape with juice in my mouth.

Spills are caused by accidents (read: user error) during refilling. For instance, in a J-tank or SmokTech DCT, the carto down is pulled down past the top seal and liquid is dripped from a bottle around the carto down the inside wall of the tank to refill. On rare occasions, the tank's bottom end cap might come off, and all the juice in the tank will suddenly spill out onto my hands and the table (infrequent, but it does happen). Or I'm fumbling with a tank and a syringe, and I inadvertently knock over the open bottle of juice (more common than one might think).

Between flooding and juice spills, I've wasted a huge amount of juice over the past year. For me, putting up with the waste and occasional mess has gotten very tiresome, so I'm now phasing out most of my carto-tanks. I'll go back to using filler cartos by themselves, along with Ultimate CE2 XL Clearomizers (which never leak or flood). Right now, of the 50 PVs/mods I keep loaded with different juices, half at my desk and the other half on my bedside table (I'm a juice bumblebee and flit from one flavor to another all day long), only eight of them have tanks.

Tanks can be wonderful, but---like everything else---they have their downsides as well.

YMMV, of course.

 

[SnowDragon]

The straight cone will work for both, it covers the ego threads for a cleaner more uniformed look.

In the world of polycarbonate tanks, there are Clear and Frosted Tubes, the frosted tanks tubes have a different composition and are not affected by certain juices like the standard clear polycarbonate tanks. Anyone who has ever vaped strong cinnamon flavors like TV's AC can attest to breakdown on the clear tank tubes, delrin caps, and even the clear DTs that come with Smoketech tanks.

Here is a list flavors that affect standard polycarbonate tanks:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...e-juices-crack-polycarb-tanks-so-why-buy.html

This all has to do with Esters and Carboxylic acids...(google for more info)

Below we have 3 3.5 ml Tanks: Left (Frosted Clear) Center (Standard Clear) Right (Standard Clear w/Delrin Caps)

You can see the yellowing that taken place on the Standard Clear w/Delrin Caps (used with TV's Atomic Cinnacide). When new the tank on the right was as clear as the center tank and the Delrin Caps were rock solid. Now I can take my fingernail and indent the Delrin caps like a warm crayon.

 

[Nedus Mustafus]

Tanks can be wonderful, but---like everything else---they have their downsides as well.

YMMV, of course.

Bill, I appreciate your insight and knowledge regarding tanks. I've never personally seen one being used, but I suspected the issues you mentioned were most likely a possibility. I suffer the flooding problem with my Reo Grand very often... I'm a super-squonker, I guess. This is one of the reasons I'm thinking of getting a VV to use instead of the Reo for a while. Your comments make me not want to get a tank, and that might not be a bad thing. LOL. Sounds like any tank I buy will end up broken after I throw it against the floor for spilling all over me.

I have a co-worker who swears by CE2's. Sounds like he likely has the same thing you mention, because he told me it NEVER leaks. I've tried his carto/eGo setup before, and it hits like a champ. The gap between pre-fab ecigs and the Reo isn't as large as it was a couple of years ago. Could you recommend a supplier for CE2's?

 

[Nedus Mustafus]

The straight cone will work for both, it covers the ego threads for a cleaner more uniformed look.

In the world of polycarbonate tanks, there are Clear and Frosted Tubes, the frosted tanks tubes have a different composition and are not affected by certain juices like the standard clear polycarbonate tanks. Anyone who has ever vaped strong cinnamon flavors like TV's AC can attest to breakdown on the clear tank tubes, delrin caps, and even the clear DTs that come with Smoketech tanks.

Here is a list flavors that affect standard polycarbonate tanks:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...e-juices-crack-polycarb-tanks-so-why-buy.html

This all has to do with Esters and Carboxylic acids...(google for more info)

Below we have 3 3.5 ml Tanks: Left (Frosted Clear) Center (Standard Clear) Right (Standard Clear w/Delrin Caps)

You can see the yellowing that taken place on the Standard Clear w/Delrin Caps (used with TV's Atomic Cinnacide). When new the tank on the right was as clear as the center tank and the Delrin Caps were rock solid. Now I can take my fingernail and indent the Delrin caps like a warm crayon.

Thanks for the info about the cones. The way it sounds to me, one should certainly look at glass or stainless tanks. They just sound more durable, all-around. Less likelihood to break when dropped, AND they won't melt!

I can't see your pic, for some reason.

 

[nanovapr]

Nedus, one thing I haven't seen mentioned? If you go to VV, you won't need LR atty/cartos any more. They are mostly intended to give a warmer vape on fixed-voltage devices. This uses more amps/current, and it hits your battery harder. With a VV device, you just turn it up/down as desired. I like Boge cartos, they work very well, and are consistent. As someone else mentioned, you will have to get used to topping them up. YMMV but if you keep them wet, they can easily last a couple of weeks. It depends on the juice, some discard them after 5 or 6 days because the flavor can go down.

 

[SnowDragon]

Nedus....have no fear of the polycarb tanks, just use the frosted ones with the metal caps. Filling tanks is much easier than filling cartos...1,000s of vapors have watched my How-to video and I have yet to hear of issues with flooding or spilling. Glass and Stainless Tanks are $40.00, frosted Smoketech tanks are $10.00.

 

[Nedus Mustafus]

Nedus, one thing I haven't seen mentioned? If you go to VV, you won't need LR atty/cartos any more. They are mostly intended to give a warmer vape on fixed-voltage devices. This uses more amps/current, and it hits your battery harder. With a VV device, you just turn it up/down as desired. I like Boge cartos, they work very well, and are consistent. As someone else mentioned, you will have to get used to topping them up. YMMV but if you keep them wet, they can easily last a couple of weeks. It depends on the juice, some discard them after 5 or 6 days because the flavor can go down.

Yes, your point is very valid. I've heard much love for Boge's, and I have actually used those in the past with no issue.

 

[Nedus Mustafus]

Nedus....have no fear of the polycarb tanks, just use the frosted ones with the metal caps. Filling tanks is much easier than filling cartos...1,000s of vapors have watched my How-to video and I have yet to hear of issues with flooding or spilling. Glass and Stainless Tanks are $40.00, frosted Smoketech tanks are $10.00.

Quite a price difference, isn't it? Will Smoketech tanks work with any carto?

Also, what is the benefit of a tank versus a clearomizer?

P.S. I like your video. Nice choice of music.

 

[Nedus Mustafus]

I answered my second question by watching PBusardo's review. He says you can only use them with XL cartos.