Interesting article: Let's Not Wage War on Smokers

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sonicdsl

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"In fact, ten percent of lung cancer patients have never smoked, though they may have a hard time getting doctors to believe them: one patient the team interviewed said that doctors refused to believe he’d never smoked, in spite of his own promises and the testimony of his wife."

That's terrible! :(

That's just pathetic. Those doctors need to be stripped of their licenses!


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rico942

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I recall my Dad, who was born in 1902, talking about the Puritanical campaigns against drinking and smoking in the early part of the 20th century. Circus tent evangelists ranting about the moral decay of a nation, while demonizing anything perceived as pleasureable ...

Death and illness caused by tobacco and alcohol abuse is tragic. But the misery and unreasoning hatred brought on by prohibitionists and moral crusaders is truly criminal, and only the demand for truth can restore balance ...

Eventually, extreme zealots always go too far, and destroy their own credibility ...
 

rothenbj

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I recall my Dad, who was born in 1902, talking about the Puritanical campaigns against drinking and smoking in the early part of the 20th century. Circus tent evangelists ranting about the moral decay of a nation, while demonizing anything perceived as pleasureable ...

Death and illness caused by tobacco and alcohol abuse is tragic. But the misery and unreasoning hatred brought on by prohibitionists and moral crusaders is truly criminal, and only the demand for truth can restore balance ...

Eventually, extreme zealots always go too far, and destroy their own credibility ...

Read the comments. The propaganda machine has done its job. There is true hatred there. So much so that You could imagine smokers being gathered up, sent on trains and put in camps for the betterment of good society. All in the name of good science.
 

Coelli

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Read the comments. The propaganda machine has done its job. There is true hatred there. So much so that You could imagine smokers being gathered up, sent on trains and put in camps for the betterment of good society. All in the name of good science.

Yeah, you could imagine that... if you were crazy. :)
 

Bramble

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Read the comments. The propaganda machine has done its job. There is true hatred there. So much so that You could imagine smokers being gathered up, sent on trains and put in camps for the betterment of good society. All in the name of good science.

Yes the bully mentality is alive and well... though the author must be gratified in some way to see her statement proven with so much vigor.
 

Fulgurant

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Dynamite from the comments:

JohnDavidson2 said:
Simon Hills gives his reaction to the House of Commons voting, on the back of junk science, to ban smoking in cars when under 18s are present – suggesting it’s only a matter of time before our homes are next

So our politicians have finally crossed a rubicon in passing legislation banning adults from doing something in their own private space on the grounds that they don’t approve of it. Smoking is to be banned in cars if there are children in the vehicle. Writing an article for The Times about the proposal, the columnist Gaby Hinsliff wrote: “There’s little point arguing this one out with hardcore libertarians, although it beats me why anyone would fight for the right to give their children cancer.”

This was the headline for the piece: “Who would fight for the right to give kids cancer?” This is the same as writing, surely, “Who would fight for the right to give kids a paralysing spinal injury?” for those parents who might want to take their children horse riding. Or, “Who would fight for the right to let their children freeze to death?” for those who take them walking in the Cairngorms.

In fact, despite the demonic, despotic science on the effects of secondary smoking, there has been the most pitiful evidence that it has done any children any harm at all.

Look at the generation who secondary-smoked more than any other, the children of the Forties and Fifties. They snorted second-hand smoke on the tops of buses, at their aunty Joan’s, their friend Shona’s and in the hairdressers. They secondary smoked in the back of Jaguar Mark IIs with ashtrays the size of Hertfordshire, and secondary smoked in seafront cafés in rainy Blackpool. Secondary smoking was obligatory at sporting events, and oh my word, how did they ever survive the cinema?

This is the generation that has the longest life expectancy ever known in the history of the human race. Indeed, if the current scare-mongering is to be believed, the non second-hand-smoking generation with a diet of doughnuts, fizzy drinks, burgers and, as they get older, a whole cocktail of legal highs are on their way to reversing this extraordinary life expectancy.

This isn’t to say that second-hand smoking is a particularly to be recommended. But it surely doesn’t give some Stalinist jobsworth the right to poke his head into my car and tell me to stop smoking in front of my children. My children – not the government’s children. My car – not the government’s car.

In my case it’s unlikely that it will ever happen. But it might. If I’ve been stationary on the M25 for an hour and a half, I might wind the window down and try and relieve the stress with a calming Winston Light. The chance of this giving my children cancer is, I reckon, 0.00000001 per cent. But a busybody with a headcam can report me to the plod and I can expect a fine at best, and who knows, losing my children for such cruelty. So I won’t. And I shall be very, very, very cross instead. And my children will be unhappy.

This, though, is the priggish, self-righteous, self-deluding age we live in.

And what is so disturbing, is that it is based on wilfully erroneous science.

Science used to be about rigour. Before any hypothesis was accepted as scientifically sound, the obverse had to be proved incorrect. Fat chance now. Science is a politically-motivated, grant-seeking art that survives by expounding the most outrageous claims and cobbling together a few computer projections to ‘prove’ the point. (Projections on crime for example that would have us all in prison on 50 years time; if we’re not all dying from third-hand smoke trapped in the curtains of ancient hotels.)

Did you know that fizzy drinks and fruit squashes are linked to depression? Severe air pollution “can double the risk of having an autistic child”? Sitting down for up to seven hours a day puts women at greater risk from type two diabetes? Eating junk food reduces a man’s sperm count? And on, and on, and on. Meaningless random studies that are churned out daily that keep so many thousands of people in work.

This is the science of Stalin and Hitler. Science where ‘facts’ fit policy.

It shamefully undermines the work of Newton, Faraday and Fleming, and pretty much any scientific endeavour pre-1960; science that has bestowed upon us unprecedented freedoms because of its rigour and political impartiality. What chance of that now, in a world where science has largely been hijacked by political expediency, prejudice and self-interest? This is science that is designed to whip up hysteria in a never ending quest for headlines and concomitant funding.

Before the vote to ban smoking in cars, Luciana Berger, the Shadow Health Minister, asked MPs: “If we know beyond doubt that passive smoking in an enclosed space can do serious harm to a person’s health, and that hundreds of thousands of children are being subjected to this every week, should we act and do something or do we stand by and do nothing?”

Well, absolutely stand by and do nothing. It’s none of your business and, more importantly, you don’t know beyond doubt. Any sentient person would only have to look consider the number of healthy septagenuarians and all their contemporaries to conclude that these politically motivated studies are suspect in the extreme. If you don’t, and Luciana Berger and the other 375 MPs who voted for the ban obviously don’t, then the path is clear to banning smoking in the home, fizzy drinks, fatty meat, crisps, anyone driving anywhere above 20 miles an hour, drinking over the legal limit at any time, walking while drunk… oh, go on, pick anything you like. The Hobgoblin University of Catford will have knocked up a study to prove you right and have a ‘model’ that tells exactly how many lives will be saved.

This dreadful decision, in other words, is a charter for politicians to boss us into submitting further to their will, whether we like it or not. History tells us that they won’t be reluctant to do so.

And we should all be terrified at the thought.
 

rothenbj

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Yeah, you could imagine that... if you were crazy. :)

I wonder if that was the thought process in the 20s and 30s Germany as the propaganda machine started building hatred.

"Smokers are just being {MODERATED} when they try to smoke in public, because second hand smoking kills as effectively as first hand."

"smoking is disgusting. It personally gets me sick. Because of 2nd hand smoke, I can't talk the next day, my throat is soar, a small amount of blood comes out of my nose. I find the smell disguisting."

" I agree the smell can send me into bronchitis for a few weeks. And now you can't walk on the streets in warm weather because now they all smoke outside. The outdoors now stinks of it."

"Those of us that care enough to not allow smoke into our lungs have no safe refuge. When I run, nothing stops others from smoking a cigarette that clouds up the air. Air that is not just occupied by their lungs--- But mine.



Their right to force toxins into my lungs overrides any right I might have to not have those toxins in my lungs."

"So...I'll simply put this out there. Should parents who smoke be allowed to smoke in the house with a newborn infant."

"I hope smokers feel rejected from society; maybe it'll help them to quit. In 2014, anyone who still smokes is either stupid or completely self-centered and inconsiderate of others. Secondhand smoke kills. If you insist on hurting yourself, that's fine --- but please stay away. "

"Any way you slice it, they, and others like them, make my health decisions for me. And I do resent it. People who eat too much pizza do not pour cholesterol down my throat. People who drink too much do not pour alcohol down my throat. But a smoker puts smoke in my lungs with absolutely no regard."

"There is no myth. It is a truth known universally to everyone except idiots like you. Smoke up, chump. The sooner you're gone, the better."

"As long as people still smoke in public, where their tobacco effluent effects other, it's a sign we still need to get through some thick heads, so by all means let's get tougher. You cannot stigmatise this disgusting and dangerous activity enough."

"You're dreaming. If anything, lepers like you will feel society's boot in the seat of your pants even more often in the future. It's only a matter of time before tobacco abuse is outlawed completely. But you pretend otherwise in your fool's paradise."

"It will be tied to medical care. And subsidies.You will lose your subsidy if your urine tests positive for nicotine. So you will have to pay hundreds more each month for the same coverage.It's going to become even more an expensive habit than it already is.



The ...... addict isn't hurting me tho."

Take the type thought process expressed in these comments and tell me how far dehumanizing can go for the smoker? Very few were this brainwashed 30 years ago. What will another 30 years bring?
 
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rothenbj

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Wow! Those comments are awful. But not unprecedented... I've seen similar thoughts before around 1939, but they were coming from the Germans in reference to non-Arian races.

The disdain for smokers is ugly and growing. I volunteered at a thrift store awhile back. I had gone out for a smoke break and saw a woman struggling with a piece of furniture and went over and offered to help. She looked up saw the cigarette and gave me a disgusted look and pointed to the cigarette and went back to her struggle.

I put the cigarette out and again offered her help. She said no before she looked up and I told her I had put it out. She looked at me as if I was a leper and said, "I'll handle it". I said "Fine" and lit up another one.
 

AgentAnia

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From a UK blog this morning, but I think it applies everywhere: Not just smokers. | underdogs bite upwards

The tobacco template says it’s okay to attack those who are not like you, those you don’t like for whatever reason. It’s okay to abuse, denormalise, humiliate and attack them. Point and scream until their bodies can be snatched and they are made to be just like you. Difference is abhorrent, the English traditional love of eccentricity is an abberation, an anomaly to be corrected. You can be part of the hate-wave, you can Belong, you can be a Righteous drone and enjoy the witch-burnings and the hangings. If you’re very lucky, we’ll let you turn on the ovens.

[....]

The trouble is, once you let the drones out, there’s no stopping them. Smokers, drinkers, fat people, fast foods, even basics like sugar and salt. They find something to hate and form a group to attack it. There is never any science involved. No need. It’s all based on prejudice and spite.

And a bit off topic, but my favorite du jour:

Did you know that, honey-munching Puritans? When they collect the honey, they calm the bees by filling the hive with smoke. So your honey is full of third hand smoke. And sugar. Oh dear. Death is tapping your shoulder as I type. Tap tap tappity tap tap tap. Feel that bony finger yet?
 

AgentAnia

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Bramble

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KODIAK™;12294066 said:
I'm going to find a funeral director's forum for some cheering up. You guys are depressing. (So right but depressing).

I know it's really terrible. Sorry to depress you Mr. Bear(TM). The hate has become so pervasive against smokers that it has oozed out from just smokers to people who have actually quit smoking, as many vapers have.

This is the crux of the hate biscuit that we as vapers are chewing on, when it comes to all the legislation we are facing. These folks who hate vaping don't even know vaping is. I actually saw an article whose title was originally about a dog who died from drinking "E-Cigarette Lighter Fluid" ... I could not make this up.

Also. Hate Biscuit is the name of my next band.
 

squee

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Did you know that, honey-munching Puritans? When they collect the honey, they calm the bees by filling the hive with smoke. So your honey is full of third hand smoke. And sugar. Oh dear. Death is tapping your shoulder as I type. Tap tap tappity tap tap tap. Feel that bony finger yet?

That is hilarious! :laugh:

And I think Second-Hand Ginger will be the name of my new band. Even though I'm not ginger. But I am Irish! :toast:
 
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