is dual coil overrated?

Status
Not open for further replies.

paulw2014

Unregistered Supplier
ECF Veteran
Aug 13, 2012
931
2,309
43
Batavia, IL
I tried a dual coil Iclear16 and I really didn't notice much increase in vapor or TH over my vivi nova. Moreover, I think it's more of a hassel (swirling, tilting, etc) to try to keep both coils wet when juice gets low, otherwise, one might produce dry hits. Not to mention a more complicated cleaning process.

So is dual coil really worth it?

BTW, does dual coil really double the output or does it merely split the output in two?

thanks
 

Amnesia1187

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Sep 3, 2012
149
86
Bellevue, WA
It all depends on the device, its wicking ability, and the power of whatever battery it's plugged in to.

Something like a Iclear16, no, it probably isn't all that beneficial, I just can't see those things wicking fast enough, and most batteries you would use them on can't power a decent dual coil anyway.

As for how the output is split. The load on the battery is split in half, but that doesn't really mean much on it's own. If you have 2 1ohm coils, then the total resistance is .5ohm, but then you need a device that can handle enough current/voltage to drive that device to a reasonable wattage. On top of that you need something that can actually wick fast enough to supply both coils with juice.

Take a look at the design of the GG Ithaka. I uses 2 full 2 or 3mm wicks, 1 for each coil, that both wick independently. With a device like this, if you actually have a decent mod or mech that can drive both coils appropriately wattage, then yes, the device has the potential to double the output from a single coil (though it's likely it would be something closer to like 1.5x since their are other factors such as air intake and capillary action that would probably reduce the total vapor either wick is generating a bit.)
 

State O' Flux

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 17, 2013
4,844
4,993
Seattle
I tried a dual coil Iclear16 and I really didn't notice much increase in vapor or TH over my vivi nova. Moreover, I think it's more of a hassel (swirling, tilting, etc) to try to keep both coils wet when juice gets low, otherwise, one might produce dry hits. Not to mention a more complicated cleaning process.

So is dual coil really worth it?

BTW, does dual coil really double the output or does it merely split the output in two?

thanks
If you're using it on a eGo, then no, you're not going to notice much of an improvement. If you read the information on using an iClear (with a 2.1Ω standard coil head) successfully... they tell you that you need to run between 4.4-5.0 volts or around 9-11 watts... in other words, a VV or VV-VW or regulated mech.
The most common misconception about iClears is that they are just like any other clearo, but you are, like the previous poster said, running two coils... not one.

If you continue to use the iClear, at least get some 1.5Ω coil heads... Innokin suggests using those for eGo type devices.
 

SissySpike

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Apr 1, 2012
6,926
12,310
San Diego CA
With something like a Iclear you are bumping up the heat with more coils but not the air or wicking ability. You need all 3 to increase the vapor and flavor of any delivery system.

RBAs and Genys are fairly easy to modify so souping up the performance can be done successfully with out to much trouble. I think the good old 510 dual coil atts have a nice vape and I drag them out from time to time.
 

AttyPops

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 8, 2010
8,708
134,344
Hc Svnt Dracones - USA EST
... BTW, does dual coil really double the output or does it merely split the output in two?

thanks

Like everyone above said...depends on the device. On an ideal device, it's double vaping output using about double the amps at the proper voltage. However, that means the device has to approximately double the electrical output. Some can't. So it is "starved" and ends up splitting the max output, which may be less than the ideal.

The other question I have for you is...what voltage did you run it at? lol. You may have faked yourself out. Let's use a 1.5 ohm DCC as an example. If you run a normal 1.5 ohm coil at, say, 3.5 volts and you try to run a 1.5 ohm dual coil at 3.5 volts it won't work well. That's because the 1.5 ohm dual coil is really two 3.0 ohm coils. So you'd want to run them at 4.8 to 5.0 volts, because that's what you'd run a 3.0 ohm coil at. See?
 
Last edited:

Amnesia1187

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Sep 3, 2012
149
86
Bellevue, WA
Like everyone above said...depends on the device. On an ideal device, it's double vaping output using about double the amps at the proper voltage. However, that means the device has to approximately double the electrical output. Some can't. So it is "starved" and ends up splitting the max output, which may be less than the ideal.

The other question I have for you is...what voltage did you run it at? lol. You may have faked yourself out. Let's use a 1.5 ohm DCC as an example. If you run a normal 1.5 ohm coil at, say, 3.5 volts and you try to run a 1.5 ohm dual coil at 3.5 volts it won't work well. That's because the 1.5 ohm dual coil is really two 3.0 ohm coils. So you'd want to run them at 4.8 to 5.0 volts, because that's what you'd run a 3.0 ohm coil at. See?

I'm not sure that this is really accurate, voltage is voltage, but what varies is amperage and wattage. So if you have 2 coils, and are doing 10 watts, each coil (I believe) is only pushing 5 watts.

Where this gets complicated is that a single coil at 5 watts will produce a cooler and thinner vapor and you will likely get a less total vapor between 2 coils at 5 watts than one at 10watts as I believe 5 watts is a less than ideal output for optimal vapor production (this is when you would actually start getting into efficency regarding specific vapor points of your eliquid of choice, optimal temperatures, heating surface area, etc).

To compensate you increase the voltage to increase the wattage (which results in higher current draw which is where you might find some batteries, especially ego types to be lacking)

If my understanding is correct (and it may not be):

If you have a 2 ohm single coil and you want 8 watts of power, you would need 4v which would draw 2 amps.

If you wanted to double your vapor production, you would want 8 watts on each coil, which means 16 watts total, to get this with a 2ohm dual coil you would need 5.66v and would draw 2.83 amps.

I believe something like the ego twist has a current limit of 2.5 amps which would peak out at 12.5 watts or 5 volts. But, since a twist peaks at 4.8v, with a 2ohm dual coil your would peak out at 11.52 watts and 2.4amp draw. This would only be 5.76w per coil.

Now with a device like a vision, while you might have 2 coils that are fairly standard size, I would suspect that the wicking and am certain the airflow would be reduced from a single coil device, so while you could conceivably do 16 watts on the dual coil, you would likely end up with dry wicks and a burnt taste.

The other thing to keep in mind is that if you double vapor production at the same wattage (2 coils both at 8 watts), on an ideal device with adequate airflow and wicking, you are also doubling the total heat being output. And while this heat is displaced in twice as much vapor that also means twice as much surface area for thermal transfer, which I would suspect would give the impression of hotter vapor. To counteract, you would likely either take smaller and faster draws (which I suspect is the bigger benefit to most people), or lower the heat output by dropping the wattage, or you can do a combination of both until you find a balance.

So at the end of the day dual coils primary benefit is not so much the doubling of vapor production so much as being able to produce an equivalent volume and temperature of vapor faster. The end result is not so much a better experience as a different one.
 
Last edited:

Oomee

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 6, 2013
534
1,830
UK
Two coils in parrallel
Both of the same resistance .
Two of the same wicks
Variable or a"compensated to suit" (drilled out) airhole .

Should be equal to or thereabouts , twice the vape .
There are a lot of small variables that can change things (large if comparing dissimilar attys), but that's about the gist of it .
One thing to note that the energy does not all "go into the vape" a shedload of it is sunk into the body of the atty . This greatly contributes to the warmth IMHO .
 

AttyPops

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 8, 2010
8,708
134,344
Hc Svnt Dracones - USA EST
I'm not sure that this is really accurate, voltage is voltage, but what varies is amperage and wattage. So if you have 2 coils, and are doing 10 watts, each coil (I believe) is only pushing 5 watts.

@Amnesia1187...That's what I said (without getting all "complicated" on him/her). Electrical output = amps. ;) So two coils at 5 watts (your example) means that the battery needs to supply 10 watts. If it can't voltage drops when it's amp starved.

The rest of your post, my eyes glazed over. I'll have to read it again later. Remember ohm's law and also remember that dual coils are rated by net ohms (not the ohms of each coil). So IDK what you're getting at yet. Will re-read.
 
Last edited:

Amnesia1187

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Sep 3, 2012
149
86
Bellevue, WA
@Amnesia1187...That's what I said (without getting all "complicated" on him/her). Electrical output = amps. ;)

The rest of your post, my eyes glazed over. I'll have to read it again later. Remember ohm's law and also remember that dual coils are rated by net ohms (not the ohms of each coil). So IDK what you're getting at yet. Will re-read.

The gist was basically that the primary benefit of dual coils is not that they produce twice as much vapor, it's that they can produce vapor faster. I don't think MOST people would actually want double the vapor as doing so would be doubling the heat going into your lungs. So the net gain is that you can get a similar sized hit from a shorter draw, or a bigger (though not double) hit from an equivalent draw.
 

Oomee

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 6, 2013
534
1,830
UK
The gist was basically that the primary benefit of dual coils is not that they produce twice as much vapor, it's that they can produce vapor faster. I don't think MOST people would actually want double the vapor as doing so would be doubling the heat going into your lungs. So the net gain is that you can get a similar sized hit from a shorter draw, or a bigger (though not double) hit from an equivalent draw.

Can see the "faster vape" as in molecules per a second , and agree with that .
The rest , kinda meh ..
The way I see it is a denser vape , more molecules in the mouth and lungs , so a fuller richer sensation .
 

tj99959

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
  • Aug 13, 2011
    15,116
    39,600
    utah
    It's all in the details, dual coil doesn't mean much without the details.
    The OP referred to the I-16, which is just a CE-4 in reality. Also the I-30 is just a vivi nova in reality. While they were cutting edge a year and a half ago, they are pretty much just aging technology these days. So really shouldn't expect much regardless of how many coils they put in them. There are still people that like them, and might find dual coils an improvement tho. Personally I don't see how you could get the air flow necessary to realy take advantage of dual coils from a CE-4 type device.
     

    jp_cfc09

    Super Member
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Aug 5, 2013
    302
    191
    lost
    I can 100% say I like them better, ive had every iclear clearomizer released and would stand by the ce5+ duel coil one everytime. if you had the ce4 single coil, ce8 bottom mesh coil and ce5+ all at hand to test you would notice the differance big time like I have. as stated a lower ohm coil is needed such as 1.5 or even 1.8 to get good vapes on ego or lower voltage. in all honestly they clean as easy as any other clearomizer I have be it bottom, single or duel coiled as its the same ways of cleaning really. for the wicks getting wet I always refill once down below half and never under a 1/4 as even protanks ive had can be troublesome once running low. also its a easy habbit to get into to give the e cig a wee swirl every now and again which I like as I used to play with my analogs alot lol. :):):):)

    ps:it makes a warmer vape which some like, like me lol but it does produce more vapour compared to the single ce4 or bottom coil ce8.
     
    Last edited:

    AttyPops

    Vaping Master
    ECF Veteran
    Jul 8, 2010
    8,708
    134,344
    Hc Svnt Dracones - USA EST
    The gist was basically that the primary benefit of dual coils is not that they produce twice as much vapor, it's that they can produce vapor faster. I don't think MOST people would actually want double the vapor as doing so would be doubling the heat going into your lungs. So the net gain is that you can get a similar sized hit from a shorter draw, or a bigger (though not double) hit from an equivalent draw.

    You point is valid in that people often use dual-coil stuff at a lower voltage than single...and get a cooler vape. But that's preference and I was after his "do they split it or double it" question.

    There's air flow and wicking too. So it's a YMMV thing. However, electrically, it's a parallel circuit and behaves as double the single coil. Assuming the amps are supplied.
     

    Oomee

    Super Member
    ECF Veteran
    Aug 6, 2013
    534
    1,830
    UK
    You point is valid in that people often use dual-coil stuff at a lower voltage than single...and get a cooler vape. But that's preference and I was after his "do they split it or double it" question.

    There's air flow and wicking too. So it's a YMMV thing. However, electrically, it's a parallel circuit and behaves as double the single coil. Assuming the amps are supplied.

    Yep , that's right .
    I responded to the thread title "is dual coil overrated?" , and tried to tie some of the technical loose ends .
    So not about the details , more about the principles .
     
    Status
    Not open for further replies.

    Users who are viewing this thread