Is it PG Sensitivity?

[NoizMaker]

Hey again guys, this time I am once again asking for advice from you guys.

I hate the timing of this one personally, but I have a real novel to write this time. With good reason too...

Since I Started vaping

I had been on dekang juice (it was all that was really available for a good price back then imho) previously to trying DIY as well as after using up all my DIY supplies a few times I went back to Dekang Tobacco juices in PG out of laziness. The flavors were good enough at the time and uvapeit (Not recommended btw) was selling me my months supply of juice for 60 bucks if I bought whatever was on sale for quite a long time.

So anyway, I noticed the odd time after I vaped I was getting headaches. So I figured I was just chain vaping or using too much since I tend to blast through 3-5 ml's per day on average at 18 or 24 mg. I had the little twinge of a headache right after the occasional vape and mostly just thought it was my other various health problems causing it.

After Switched had mentioned his PG sensitivity and I took his advice to look around a bit and check out the associated information to said sensitivity... I was a little worried.

I'm no hypochondriac but I have a family history of chemical sensitivity and allergies. I decided to try the bottle of 100% VG Maple juice from electronic-cigz I received with my Omega order to see if that juice caused the same problem.

I tried it and no headache and no need to stop vaping early for any reason. So I decided I would use the VG on my old 901 atty at 6 volts (those Green Tenergy's from before) and vape on some new canadian VG/PG designed juices for my low res. Besides, I was bored of the flavors I was rotating anyway. I noticed little to no discomfort after using the VG for a day or so and switching back and forth between PG and VG caused no problems.

A few months have gone by now and I have tried NFN and VaporsKitchen juices in a variety of flavors and things have been ok with the occasional dry throat, but as time has passed I find I have to clear my throat a lot.


I now also have a persistent cough that I will compare to a light smokers cough (I almost wanted to call it vapers cough but I don't think it is as black and white as that) and I really don't want to say it... but;

I think I might possibly be developing a PG sensitivity....

Why?

The cough has been around for almost a week, and the headaches are still off and on but a little more frequent.

After vaping a little of my remaining "MapleBoro" juice that is 80% PG 20% VG from being at a 60% VG and 40% PG mix, I had a wave of muscle pain and immediately had pain in my lower back on both sides. It went away within moments and I didn't notice this problem when vaping the new VG/PG mixes like this at all. Took me by total surprise... And this just happened about 2 hours ago.

So guys, am I right? Is it possible that this is a PG sensitivity coming on?

 

[Mr.Self_Destruct]

I would say yes.

I have been vaping since April 2010 and only in Dec 2010 did I realize I was allergic to PG. I started getting sore throats and really really sensitive teeth.

Now I use 100% VG and I'm much better. The only thing is I'm a little phlegmy from the VG.

I always liked 70PG 30VG, and didn't want to give it up, so I was stubborn about the transition, but I had to in order to keep vaping and not smoke.

 

[NoizMaker]

I would say yes.

I have been vaping since April 2010 and only in Dec 2010 did I realize I was allergic to PG. I started getting sore throats and really really sensitive teeth.

Now I use 100% VG and I'm much better. The only thing is I'm a little phlegmy from the VG.

I always liked 70PG 30VG, and didn't want to give it up, so I was stubborn about the transition, but I had to in order to keep vaping and not smoke.

Well thanks for your honesty for sure.

I was perfectly fine with PG for the past year + I have been vaping but it's just now (over these last few months) starting to show any negative symptoms like this. I was totally taken off guard by it tonight, to say the very least.

 

[kanadiankat]

PG sensitivity - perhaps....

PG is in so many products and air filtration systems - it's really more a part of our daily lives than most people are aware of. Developing sensitivity or allergy to PG can have very far reaching effects. Having read quite a bit of research on PG - it seems that sensitivity is rare (except in cats - and you're probably not a cat...), but with human beings - no sensitivity is impossible.

There hasn't been a lot of studies done on vaping with PG - and that's probably where medical knowledge is a bit lax - but you can always ask your doctor to do an allergic reaction test for PG and get a better idea of what's going on.

If you do have a sensitivity to PG - I would strongly recommend avoiding any PG bases.

You will get some PG with any liquid because it is the base carrier for flavorants and nicotine. You'll also get it in most foods, air you breath on a plane or in an airport or hospital - and many IV solutions. Avoiding something you're potentially sensitive to could help prevent a full allergic reaction. (this is advice I got from my doctor as I'm very sensitive to cleaning chemicals - ...lol... really!).

It might also be a good idea to move away from DeKang liquids for awhile. Each company has it's own unique base and you could be reacting to some other part of the base.

Hope this helps - good luck...

 

[AlbertaClipper]

Having read quite a bit of research on PG - it seems that sensitivity is rare (except in cats - and you're probably not a cat...),

Can you please tell me what you know about PV's and cats?

Thanks...

 

[hotone]

Can you please tell me what you know about PV's and cats?

Thanks...

Whew, my cat cannot reach to press the button on my ego and inhale at the same time. Thanks goodness I don't have an auto battery, or did you mean PG?

 

[VAPOINSANO]

well, whatever the hell it is noiz

hope you stay on top of this

and get well soon !

 

[kanadiankat]

Can you please tell me what you know about PV's and cats?

Thanks...

hmmm... well cats purr, pv's don't.... the rest is just biological.... (lol)

I think you're asking about PG and cats - it's the one chemical they don't tolerate. Cat foods do not contain PG because cats don't metabolize it - it's kinda dangerous for them.

Many dog foods, on the other hand, do contain PG.

So it's best not to feed your dogs to your cat - especially after they've eaten.

 

[BlondieLocs]

hmmm... Well cats purr, pv's don't.... The rest is just biological.... (lol)

i think you're asking about pg and cats - it's the one chemical they don't tolerate. Cat foods do not contain pg because cats don't metabolize it - it's kinda dangerous for them.

Many dog foods, on the other hand, do contain pg.

So it's best not to feed your dogs to your cat - especially after they've eaten.

 

[AlbertaClipper]

I think you're asking about PG and cats - it's the one chemical they don't tolerate.

Yeah, that's what I meant...I should have remembered that I can EDIT on this board.

I guess what I was wondering is how tolerant are my cats of being around me when I vape...provided I don't blow it in their little faces. So far, I haven't killed them in my ignorance, thank goodness.

 

[BlondieLocs]

Yeah, that's what I meant...I should have remembered that I can EDIT on this board.

I guess what I was wondering is how tolerant are my cats of being around me when I vape...provided I don't blow it in their little faces. So far, I haven't killed them in my ignorance, thank goodness.

Mine is sitting on my lap right now. She keeps sticking her nose in my Bellini vapour... I think if it bothered her, I would have noticed by now. That being said, I don't go out of my way to blow it on her.

 

[Switched]

Hey again guys, this time I am once again asking for advice from you guys.

I hate the timing of this one personally, but I have a real novel to write this time. With good reason too...

Since I Started Vaping

I had been on dekang juice (it was all that was really available for a good price back then imho) previously to trying DIY as well as after using up all my DIY supplies a few times I went back to Dekang Tobacco juices in PG out of laziness. The flavors were good enough at the time and uvapeit (Not recommended btw) was selling me my months supply of juice for 60 bucks if I bought whatever was on sale for quite a long time.

So anyway, I noticed the odd time after I vaped I was getting headaches. So I figured I was just chain vaping or using too much since I tend to blast through 3-5 ml's per day on average at 18 or 24 mg. I had the little twinge of a headache right after the occasional vape and mostly just thought it was my other various health problems causing it.

After Switched had mentioned his PG sensitivity and I took his advice to look around a bit and check out the associated information to said sensitivity... I was a little worried.

I'm no hypochondriac but I have a family history of chemical sensitivity and allergies. I decided to try the bottle of 100% VG Maple juice from electronic-cigz I received with my Omega order to see if that juice caused the same problem.

I tried it and no headache and no need to stop vaping early for any reason. So I decided I would use the VG on my old 901 atty at 6 volts (those Green Tenergy's from before) and vape on some new canadian VG/PG designed juices for my low res. Besides, I was bored of the flavors I was rotating anyway. I noticed little to no discomfort after using the VG for a day or so and switching back and forth between PG and VG caused no problems.

A few months have gone by now and I have tried NFN and VaporsKitchen juices in a variety of flavors and things have been ok with the occasional dry throat, but as time has passed I find I have to clear my throat a lot.

I now also have a persistent cough that I will compare to a light smokers cough (I almost wanted to call it vapers cough but I don't think it is as black and white as that) and I really don't want to say it... but;

I think I might possibly be developing a PG sensitivity....

Why?

The cough has been around for almost a week, and the headaches are still off and on but a little more frequent.

After vaping a little of my remaining "MapleBoro" juice that is 80% PG 20% VG from being at a 60% VG and 40% PG mix, I had a wave of muscle pain and immediately had pain in my lower back on both sides. It went away within moments and I didn't notice this problem when vaping the new VG/PG mixes like this at all. Took me by total surprise... And this just happened about 2 hours ago.

So guys, am I right? Is it possible that this is a PG sensitivity coming on?

It is hard to say for sure but I would lean that way. As you know I was a Dekang vaper myself, now it is strictly DIY with the exception of Caramel Tobacco from Bluemist. Since they sell the flavouring, I will DIY that too.

I would say yes.

I have been vaping since April 2010 and only in Dec 2010 did I realize I was allergic to PG. I started getting sore throats and really really sensitive teeth.

Now I use 100% VG and I'm much better. The only thing is I'm a little phlegmy from the VG.

I always liked 70PG 30VG, and didn't want to give it up, so I was stubborn about the transition, but I had to in order to keep vaping and not smoke.

Wrt VG the only side effect besides clouds of vapour (hard to stealth vape) is the slight phlegm build up in the back of my throat.

PG sensitivity - perhaps....

PG is in so many products and air filtration systems - it's really more a part of our daily lives than most people are aware of. Developing sensitivity or allergy to PG can have very far reaching effects. Having read quite a bit of research on PG - it seems that sensitivity is rare (except in cats - and you're probably not a cat...), but with human beings - no sensitivity is impossible.

There hasn't been a lot of studies done on vaping with PG - and that's probably where medical knowledge is a bit lax - but you can always ask your doctor to do an allergic reaction test for PG and get a better idea of what's going on.

If you do have a sensitivity to PG - I would strongly recommend avoiding any PG bases.

You will get some PG with any liquid because it is the base carrier for flavorants and nicotine. You'll also get it in most foods, air you breath on a plane or in an airport or hospital - and many IV solutions. Avoiding something you're potentially sensitive to could help prevent a full allergic reaction. (this is advice I got from my doctor as I'm very sensitive to cleaning chemicals - ...lol... really!).

It might also be a good idea to move away from DeKang liquids for awhile. Each company has it's own unique base and you could be reacting to some other part of the base.

Hope this helps - good luck...

That is why I haven't openly discussed my case because many do not want to see their "bobo" taken away.

The research I did was not about PG safety, but about sensitivity. There is enough supporting data out there wrt this, and that is why PG is only rated as GRAS. Doctors are dumbfounded when it comes to why humans have displayed sensitivities towards PG even at what is considered safe amounts/concentrations etc...

WRT air filtration systems etc... what are the concentrations and exposure times, you are not vaping it 14-16hrs a day 7 days a week? That is the study folks keep pushing

Dekang is but one culprit, even my DIY affected me and I buy my supplies from clean reputable sources. No it was the PG.

Since going strictly VG I have not had any symptoms resurface and the chalky feeling the wife was experiencing (she doesn't vape) nor the odd asthma attack have not occurred since.

After de-sensitizing (hope that is the right word) myself from PG, I tried some of my liquids. 2 toots and I would get a weird feeling. I do not need medical proof of my experiences.

Some display symptoms immediately and some build up a sensitivity towards it over time, and that is why PG will never see a rating other than GRAS. I am lucky that the concentrations in the flavouring seem to not affect me.

 

[Switched]

Noize...

I would desensitize myself 6-8 weeks, then re-introduce PG. If it is PG it won't take long to notice it, IME anyway.

 

[lelly]

I have been having some problems also and my next batch of juice will be 100% VG to see if this helps any. I would like to continue using cartomizers and my eGo-T though, and I was just wondering what you would recommend mixing with and in what proportion, to make this possible. How does using distilled water or alcohol affect your juice? It worries me that you say VG causes excess phlegm because I am already prone to get pneumonia every time I get a cold.

 

[Switched]

Phlegm more than with PG which was really non existent unless I vaped allot. Mind you I no longer have a dry throat as when using PG liquids.

Because of my peculiarities and vaping style I DIY. I cut all VG by 20% with distilled water, including the VG nic but that one at 10% because it is already diluted by the nic (100mg). This renders a liquid that produces clouds of vapour yet wicks like a charm in carts and cartos.

 

[rachelcoffe]

Hey Noizmaker.

Just wanted to let you know, if you want flavourings that don't have any PG in them (so that way your base liquid + flavour, the whole thing, is PG-free)...Perfumer's Apprentice has some where instead of PG or alcohol, they use triacetin as the base carrier.

Perfumers Apprentice - Flavors - Non PG

Triacetin is food-safe, GRAS, and inhalation tests have shown no outstanding issues. It's also closely related to PG & VG (they're all members of the glycerin family). It's not as thick as VG, either...so it makes a better alternative. Personally, I find that using a triacetin-based flavouring seems to make the juice vape better. Me likes.

Anyway, hope that helps! Chances are good too that if there's a flavour of hers you want that's not listed in that section, that Linda would agree to make it up for you as a tri version.

 

[lelly]

OK, dumb question: Is Culligan/Corpells water the same as distilled water?

Because we live on a farm and have well water, we buy those big 5 gallon jugs of water from the grocery store for drinking/cooking with. Would it be pure enough to use in DIY juice?

 

[NoizMaker]

Thanks guys, I truly appreciate the advice from everyone. I think I am just going to make a transition to 100% VG over the next few months, as suggested and see my doctor about going to an allergist.

Switched, after reading your posts, I am editing my OP so that no one is scared off of PG for my sake, there is honestly nothing wrong with PG. I loved PG and even though it sucks that I will have to give it up, I will survive.

So sorry if this thread kind of freaked you guys out here. I just wanted to be thorough about my symptoms so that there could be no doubt if it was.

 

[Switched]

Thanks guys, I truly appreciate the advice from everyone. I think I am just going to make a transition to 100% VG over the next few months, as suggested.

Switched, after reading your posts, I am editing my OP so that no one is scared off of PG for my sake, there is honestly nothing wrong with PG. I loved PG and even though it sucks that I will have to give it up, I will survive.

So sorry if this thread kind of freaked you guys out here. I just wanted to be thorough about my symptoms so that there could be no doubt if it was.

Let the post stand as is IMO. This stuff needs to be in the open, so others don't feel the need to suffer in silence.

 

[Switched]

OK, dumb question: Is Culligan/Corpells water the same as distilled water?

Because we live on a farm and have well water, we buy those big 5 gallon jugs of water from the grocery store for drinking/cooking with. Would it be pure enough to use in DIY juice?

No, distilled water is distilled water, available in 1gal jugs from both the pharmacy and grocery stores.