Is taste really subjective?

[jebey29]

These words get thrown around quite a bit. Is taste really subjective? It think yes and no. Lets take an easy one....The grape cartomizer.

If you have one person say i taste grape and the other person says i taste watermelon and yet another person says i taste kiwi then HOUSTON we have a problem. While taste is subjective when your using a flavor like grape,then everybody should taste grape...just some in more or less degrees than others.

I have been reading quite a few reviews on flavors and for the most part they do me no good because everyone seems to be afraid to say this or that cart is awful. They always fall back on the line that well taste is subjective.

Now that everyone is getting the new flavors and trying them at the same time i believe i am noticing something. I think there might be a manufacturing flaw with some of the cartomizers. Lets take the cinammon roll for example. Some say it tastes just like cinammon and some are saying it tastes just like the roll. Nobody has said it tastes like a cinammon roll. I have this cart to and to me it tastes like nothing. It has no taste to me. "I take that back...it sort of tastes like the RY4 to me. Almost tasteless but a hint of something there. And i have tried it on all my batteries and its still pretty tasteless. What im getting at is im not quite sure the juices are getting Mixed properly when being put into the cartomizers hence why some people get just cinnamon and some people get the roll taste.

Am i wrong here?

 

[Belletrist]

no... i think it really is subjective. there are certain flavors i def don't like, and certain flavors that more will like than others. but for example, i cannot taste the 'creamy' candy flavors at-all. any of them. not in juice, not as carts. period. i just don't taste them. i'm pretty sure that's me.

 

[doots]

When you read enough posts here about liquids and one person says they love it and the next person says they hate it, you too will conclude, I think, that taste is truly subjective. For what it's worth.

 

[Paranoyed]

I understand Jebey29's point. He is saying the flavor is usually close now whether or not you like that flavor that is the subjective part. For instance Belle you probably have a hard time with creme because the nature of the flavor is to be smooth but you want extra TH. Others probably love creme flavors but dislike cinnamon because they are like Leaford and prefer little TH. The reaction to the flavor is subjective but I do not think the flavors themself are. Take Lager for example; If you drink Sam Adams BL exclusivley you will probably be disappointed with and not like V4L Lager cartos as they are modeled after a Chinese Lager( I forget which one Leaford said it was) But if you are a beer connesiuer like myself you would probably be more open to it because you have do not have a pre-set image of what Lager should be. I have had over 130 different beers from around the world so I know there really is no generic beer taste.

 

[Epheon]

These words get thrown around quite a bit. Is taste really subjective? It think yes and no. Lets take an easy one....The grape cartomizer.

If you have one person say i taste grape and the other person says i taste watermelon and yet another person says i taste kiwi then HOUSTON we have a problem. While taste is subjective when your using a flavor like grape,then everybody should taste grape...just some in more or less degrees than others.

I have been reading quite a few reviews on flavors and for the most part they do me no good because everyone seems to be afraid to say this or that cart is awful. They always fall back on the line that well taste is subjective.

Now that everyone is getting the new flavors and trying them at the same time i believe i am noticing something. I think there might be a manufacturing flaw with some of the cartomizers. Lets take the cinammon roll for example. Some say it tastes just like cinammon and some are saying it tastes just like the roll. Nobody has said it tastes like a cinammon roll. I have this cart to and to me it tastes like nothing. It has no taste to me. "I take that back...it sort of tastes like the RY4 to me. Almost tasteless but a hint of something there. And i have tried it on all my batteries and its still pretty tasteless. What im getting at is im not quite sure the juices are getting Mixed properly when being put into the cartomizers hence why some people get just cinnamon and some people get the roll taste.

Am i wrong here?

Yes it is sadly, its very subjective. But also you have to remember that the nic level also plays a role.....oddly not for all flavors though. The general rule of thumb is the higher the nic level the less flavor.

However on my first order I had some French Pipe carts that tasted the same at 24 and 36mg. Odd that atleast to me this flavor didnt seem to change dependiong on the nic level. But now I only use 18mg carts and get a strong flavor from any flavor at that nic level. But flavor preference is a different thing.

Some folks really like the tobacco flavor while some cant stand them, even though they are former smokers. Ive seen former Marlboro red smokers here say they love the menthol flavors. Some love the fruit flavors while others say they are too perfumy (spelling correct?). We are all weird this way.

And ofcourse as our tastebuds recover after years of analog abuse our tastes will change. I recommend with every cart order you make add in a 5ml bottle or two, find a good flavor for you. For me its Banana at 18mg and I highly recommend the Pomegranite carts. Keep trying them you'll find yours soon.

J-

 

[Lightgeoduck]

Yes and No... taste is subjective if different people think it tastes more one way than another....or if they like the taste or not.... but sometimes where it isn't subjective is where someone says it tastes like perfume unless you get the rose flavor... most likely it is either a mixing issue or a really high nic issue..... meaning that there is more of a chance for a real high nic to have a "weird" taste than a lower.
sometimes a bad batch sneaks out.... either mixed badly or flavors marked wrong... I know no matter how your tastes buds are if you have a grapefruit liquid tasting like peanut butter I would venture to say that isn't subjective..... unless of course someone else says that same bottle tastes more peanut than butter hehe

different lots would also explain if one time you taste a flavor you like it and the next time you order it it tastes slightly different.....mixology is an advanced study hehe

hopefully I made sense

 

[macscac]

Lets take the cinammon roll for example. Some say it tastes just like cinammon and some are saying it tastes just like the roll. Nobody has said it tastes like a cinammon roll. I have this cart to and to me it tastes like nothing. It has no taste to me. "I take that back...it sort of tastes like the RY4 to me. Almost tasteless but a hint of something there. And i have tried it on all my batteries and its still pretty tasteless. What im getting at is im not quite sure the juices are getting Mixed properly when being put into the cartomizers hence why some people get just cinnamon and some people get the roll taste.

Am i wrong here?

that is a perfect reason why taste IS subjective..
i love the 'big red' cinnamon taste that cart gives..
but last nite... my wife says it tastes like nothing. she cant taste any flavor at all.

how could taste not be subjective?

 

[Paranoyed]

Yes and No... taste is subjective if different people think it tastes more one way than another....or if they like the taste or not.... but sometimes where it isn't subjective is where someone says it tastes like perfume unless you get the rose flavor... most likely it is either a mixing issue or a really high nic issue..... meaning that there is more of a chance for a real high nic to have a "weird" taste than a lower.
sometimes a bad batch sneaks out.... either mixed badly or flavors marked wrong... I know no matter how your tastes buds are if you have a grapefruit liquid tasting like peanut butter I would venture to say that isn't subjective..... unless of course someone else says that same bottle tastes more peanut than butter hehe

different lots would also explain if one time you taste a flavor you like it and the next time you order it it tastes slightly different.....mixology is an advanced study hehe

hopefully I made sense

(Scratches head) What?

 

[CatMommy]

What im getting at is im not quite sure the juices are getting Mixed properly when being put into the cartomizers.

Am i wrong here?

Well, I think you're wrong to a degree and this is why:
I spend the majority of my free time with Rockerella, and we trade A LOT of carts. I recently became the proud owner of a bunch of the CM Frapp carts because in her opinion "They taste like ...!"
Now I'm vaping her carts and they taste the same to me as my carts; that I LOVE btw!

While your batch mixing theory may be a problem in some isolated incidents, I can honestly say, I spent too much time trading/vaping flavors ordered from the same company (from the same box as a matter of fact) with a friend who loves the ones I can't taste (or just dislike) and vice versa.

For this reason, I think taste IS truly subjective and this is why I don't buy carts or juice based on other members flavor reviews. I buy what I want to try and if I don't like it, I trade it away...God Bless the "Carto Swap Thread"!

 

[m1273c]

If you have one person say i taste grape and the other person says i taste watermelon and yet another person says i taste kiwi then HOUSTON we have a problem. While taste is subjective when your using a flavor like grape,then everybody should taste grape...just some in more or less degrees than others.

I have been reading quite a few reviews on flavors and for the most part they do me no good because everyone seems to be afraid to say this or that cart is awful. They always fall back on the line that well taste is subjective.

Now that everyone is getting the new flavors and trying them at the same time i believe i am noticing something. I think there might be a manufacturing flaw with some of the cartomizers. Lets take the cinammon roll for example.

Am i wrong here?

Response to 1st section: grape -> I completely agree with your assessment regarding the single flavor problem. If you are vaping a single flavor such as grape it should taste like grape, not watermelon or some other flavor - regardless of nic level. Changes in the intensity of the flavor, not the actual flavor, come about with differing nic levels apparently. I have gotten grape flavored cartos(8mg). All have tasted like grape Popsicles. This flavor is more intense than a real grape - with an astringent tang to them.

Response to 2nd section: reviews -> There are some reviews that actually state what the reviewer tasted (flavor) and whether or not they liked it. I have tasted some flavors (probably mixed and NOT single flavor) that I did not like.

Response to 3rd section: cinnamon roll -> I believe that cinnamon roll is a MIXED flavor, and therefore might have problems due to the fact that more than 1 flavor is being "mixed" to create an overall flavor. Just as the nic and PG/VG can dilute/change flavoring, so too can separate flavors not combine correctly. Also, this might be happening. There may be flavor testing being done, in China, but due to shipping/time the flavors may "unmix," or the stronger flavor may "take over" the carto. I'm not a chemist - therefore, this is a laywoman's suggestion.

Overall, I completely understand the confusion - I've experienced it also when reading reviews to try to decide if I wanted to try a flavor. My only advice is to try a flavor - hopefully in a sample pack or maybe a freebie will come your way. Or...you may want to stick to single flavor cartos. That way if you get a grape that tastes like watermelon you would probably be able to talk to V4L about it or trade the remaining cartos to someone else.

Hopefully happy vaping!

 

[Adrenalynn]

Interesting studies have been done time and time again. The brain plays a gihugic role in the process. If you blindfold someone and give them grapes with a plum thrown in, insisting it's all grapes, some very high percentage won't be able to pick that plum out - or will give the wrong item as the plum. Tastebuds are very simple receptors. Tastes are made up of four or five basic types of receptors: sour, sweet, salty, bitter, and the arguable "Humami" (I believe is the Japanese word) - or "savoriness"

There are sub components, but those are the receptors. Everything is just some compilation of those. If the vapor rolls across one part of the tongue first instead of the other - that exact same vapor may have a different apparent taste from one to the next. That's why you swish wine around in your mouth at tastings, for example, so you roll it across all the receptors and try to pick out the subtle "notes" or impressions that are left on each.

Tastes change for a person from day to day and through their cycle - and that's entirely a brain component at play ("desire"). Texture also plays a substantial roll in that process.

Oh - sorry, getting off again: Summary - taste is well established as very subjective, or more properly, perceptive.

 

[VapingRulz]

Nicotine level makes a big difference in flavor. Some flavors shine at higher nic levels; some taste best at lower nic levels. I started at 36mg and I still use them about 50% of the time, but I do so at the expense of flavor. Banana has a stronger, more peppery taste at 36mg than it does at 24mg. Ditto for Grape and Orange Juice. I bought some 8mg Grape cartos and they are weak in both flavor and TH. Luckily I also bought extra grape e-juice at 24mg, so I add a few drops to the carto and it's like I'm vaping a different flavor.

Espresso at 36mg is brutal, but I like it anyway. I'm going to order 24mg next so I can get a less peppery vape. I fully expect the flavor to be less harsh and that it will taste a bit different even though it's the same flavor.

I think that smell also plays a role in how a particular flavor is perceived. When you vape you're not just tasting the flavor, you're smelling it too.

 

[critterbug]

yah, what adrenalynn said.

You would agree that you have to interpret a taste, right? A lot happens neurologically before you ever taste anything. At least so says the science of the brain.

So absolutely. Taste is as open to interpretation (and hence, subjective) as language or music, etc. Not just whether it tastes good but even what something tastes like.

So seriously... are you posing a philosophical question about subjectivity or one about the consistency of flavors in the cartomizers?

If its consistency, I can say of the three repeats I received, they all taste very much the same to me.

 

[jebey29]

Sorry folks. I think some of these answers are just to technical and are missing the initial point that i made.

Let me try a different example. Ok, so i go to the bakery and i buy a cinnamon roll. I then share this cinnamon roll with 10 people. Without a doubt every one of those 10 people will think it is a cinnamon roll simply by tasting it. Sure some will say that its more cinnamony, some will say its to sweet, some will say its just right, and some will say its horrible......but nobody is going to say its a banana? Get it.

With the Cinnamon roll cartomizer there are 3 camps. Some say it tastes like cinnamon and might actually be to hot for them. some are saying that it tastes more like the roll than anything else...havent figured this one out yet, do they mean "bread" tasting, and the third camp says they cant taste anything at all. I fall into the camp that cant taste anything but do have a hint of the "roll" taste....just a slight hint.

Not one person has said this tastes just like a cinnamon roll.....and this is my point. Taste is subjective only to a certain degree.

And to round all that out its my feeling that all the ingredients that go into making the Cinnamon roll cartomizer are not being mixed completely before they are put into the carts.....resulting in some tasting cinnamon, others tasting the roll and others like me tasting almost nothing.

 

[Taryn]

I have been in a situation where I tasted one thing from a carto and my boyfriend thought the exact same carto on the exact same battery tasted different from what I described. I LOVE the idea of white chocolate strawberry but the couple samples that I've tried both tasted like perfume I couldn't pick up any other taste but when I passed the VK I was using over to him, he thought they were delicious and could taste both the chocolate and the strawberry.

It also makes a difference what I've been eating or drinking, last time I brushed my teeth, even how I'm feeling. Things I've disliked I've tried again later (same carto just stashed away) and enjoyed them.

 

[Adrenalynn]

>> are not being mixed completely before they are put into the carts

you're assuming they're shipping hundred of bazillions of cartomizers. They're not. The differing opinions are coming from exactly the same batch...

>> some of these answers are just to technical and are missing the initial point

See - that's where religion and science have to part company...

 

[jebey29]

I have been in a situation where I tasted one thing from a carto and my boyfriend thought the exact same carto on the exact same battery tasted different from what I described. I LOVE the idea of white chocolate strawberry but the couple samples that I've tried both tasted like perfume I couldn't pick up any other taste but when I passed the VK I was using over to him, he thought they were delicious and could taste both the chocolate and the strawberry.

It also makes a difference what I've been eating or drinking, last time I brushed my teeth, even how I'm feeling. Things I've disliked I've tried again later (same carto just stashed away) and enjoyed them.

I think our taste buds are alot alike then taryn because the white chocolate strawberry carts taste like perfume to me also. And I really thought i would love that one. But i dont give up on carts. i finish them to the end before making judgements about them.

 

[Taryn]

I don't give up on them either but some I do put away and try later. I wasn't thrilled with my first try of the blueberry, I thought it tasted a bit like blueberries but with a huge dash of what I can only describe as "food coloring taste". I put it away for a week and when I tried it again (same carto, both times on my PT) I rather enjoyed it. It will probably never be on my top ten list but it wasn't as disgusting as I first felt it was.

 

[edbaar49]

To a very high degree, yes... flavor and tastes are subjective and there's probably not a lot any two people at random will agree on. I know that I like "x" and my buddy does not; I know that "y" tastes like something else but my buddy thinks the flavor is accurate; we both agree that "z" tastes like ..., but another person absolutely looooves it. I think the best thing one can gather from flavor reports is a general sense. I'm vaping quite a few more flavors than I would ever care to smoke! Some really like the sweet, dessert flavors and I didn't think that I would; some taste the sweetness, to me they taste more earthy and complex and not at all sweet. We're complicated and contrary animals. Don't be discouraged with the great selection. Try each over a passage of time and you will find one or more that really please you.

 

[jebey29]

Interesting studies have been done time and time again. The brain plays a gihugic role in the process. If you blindfold someone and give them grapes with a plum thrown in, insisting it's all grapes, some very high percentage won't be able to pick that plum out - or will give the wrong item as the plum. Tastebuds are very simple receptors. Tastes are made up of four or five basic types of receptors: sour, sweet, salty, bitter, and the arguable "Humami" (I believe is the Japanese word) - or "savoriness"

There are sub components, but those are the receptors. Everything is just some compilation of those. If the vapor rolls across one part of the tongue first instead of the other - that exact same vapor may have a different apparent taste from one to the next. That's why you swish wine around in your mouth at tastings, for example, so you roll it across all the receptors and try to pick out the subtle "notes" or impressions that are left on each.

Tastes change for a person from day to day and through their cycle - and that's entirely a brain component at play ("desire"). Texture also plays a substantial roll in that process.

Oh - sorry, getting off again: Summary - taste is well established as very subjective, or more properly, perceptive.

Gihugic, subjective and perceptive? As a business owner i break things down to the most simplest to fix things. That is how i approach problems. This cinnamon roll cart is a problem to me.

What your saying sounds good in a text book but doesnt really make sense to me. If i cook a steak and only put salt and pepper on it as seasoning and give it to 4 of my friends nobody is going to say this tastes just like salt and this tastes just like pepper. Everyone will taste the steak and then decide if its to salty or to peppery.

As of me writing this 137 people have viewed this thread and nobody has said this tastes just like a cinnamon roll. Everybody is getting a taste of one part of this cart and this is all im trying to get at....i believe there is a problem with the mixing of liquids during manufacturing...either that or the guy that invented this cinnamon roll is basing it off of a Chinese cinnamon roll.