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Italy to open up to e-smoking?

Discussion in 'Law and the E-Cigarette' started by katink, Jun 30, 2008.

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  1. katink

    katink Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 24, 2008
    the Netherlands
    :D A post made elsewhere by Ludo (Janty) had my ears perking up:

    "Italy (=Jantyshop about to open there) is waiting for green light from government: they are ahead of european legislation there and will be allowing 6mg to be sold freely"

    So... perhaps not áll doom-and-gloom in the world of e-smoking after all then; this is one ray of sunlight like we have been wanting to see ;)
     
  2. TropicalBob

    TropicalBob Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2008
    Port Charlotte, FL USA
    We really need ONE country to say this is a good thing. Just one to get e-smoking started. I hope Italy is the one. It might spur others.

    But 6mg max? Oh my. Might as well smoke Bickford flavors.
     
  3. katink

    katink Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 24, 2008
    the Netherlands
    Agree: one is what we need. For starters. I hope myself it will be Malaysia first, setting the norm, because we know that our own Jim, who knows what we need, is behind it then :D

    Still: Italy alongside wouldn't be bad... also because it is in the group of 24 countries, none of the others having legislation on this, so with a good chance of having them follow the one that does... and guess thén we will need Jim's influence through Malaysia or who knows straight on even, to get them to take the next step and change it to what we need to let it really work as needed...

    Getting the devices in without trouble is one big step that will allready be taken then though, which will win a lot of time, so less for Jim to do after that :) (Poor Jim, being sent around the whole world allready ;) )

    And when a whole group of countries lets it in... small chance US will be able to keep it out thén, I would think. :)
     
  4. TropicalBob

    TropicalBob Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2008
    Port Charlotte, FL USA
    You read what happened to Dr. Loi, right? The government essentially turned against him. The One Good Man is on his own.
     
  5. katink

    katink Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 24, 2008
    the Netherlands
    I think I have some idea of what is happening to Dr. Loi. What a darn hard time he is having; and just how much courage he is needing... and showing. Courage ánd hope.
    Hope is a strong motor TB: and accompanied by courage and resourcefulness it can get people a long way. Lets see, and show some faith in... and/or hope for... what could happen. In Italy; in KL. :).
     
  6. edwink

    edwink New Member

    Jul 2, 2008
    Hi Katink, Can you post the URL of this piece of information please? I'd like to read the full story, if Italy is going to be the first country making e-cigarettes legal.

    Also is this being covered in any Italian news (hopefully there's an english version...)? Thanks heaps.

     
  7. Ludo

    Ludo Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Feb 27, 2008
    China
    We will get permission for sales in 20 days... the test results for the cartridges was ok, we'll have all certificates needed for Italy and therefore for Europe. Coz that's how it works, once a European member state gives the green light, the rest will follow :)
     
  8. katink

    katink Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 24, 2008
    the Netherlands
    I'm sorry I couldn't answer this before now Edwink (couldn't get into new forum).
    But I was refering to a post from another forum: no further background story along with that, but post was from someone who should be knowing what he was talking about... and that someone meanwhile answered you :)
     
  9. TropicalBob

    TropicalBob Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2008
    Port Charlotte, FL USA
    Ruyan, I view your company as the only one in the world with the finances and clout to get e-smoking accepted by governments. You probably stand alone with tests from Dr. Murray Laugesen to show purity of liquid. No other company assures us with lab tests that our practice is "safe."

    But the bottom line is that you are selling a drug delivery device that uses a poisonous liquid to sustain addicts. That's a tough sales pitch, and a slow ball pitch of "it's healthier than cigarettes" won't get far. I wish you all the luck in the world in making what you said above come true.

    I'm aboard, even if I have to buy a Janty. (And surely no one expects blanket approval of e-smoking devices and liquid; approvals will be model by model, company by company). Italy will approve only Ruyan products, if it approves anything at all.
     
  10. Mamba

    Mamba Full Member

    Jun 19, 2008
    U.S.A.
    I read the Health New Zealand study and I must say that this is definitely a move in the right direction. I quote from the summary: "Once on sale, its ongoing safety profile depends on 1)good manufacturing practice and pharmaceutical-grade purity of the nicotine and propylene glycol used in the cartridge liquid..." I must say I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. When Janty opens their U.S. site I wonder if they going to have a statement on their site to the effect that they are using good manufacturing practices and the cartridge liquid contents are pharmaceutical grade. Or do they already state this and I'm not aware of it?

    I would definitely choose a manufacturer who states this over one who doesn't. I would still like to see the actual vapor produced by the devices tested, but in the meantime I would be relatively happy with a statement that the cartridge contents are pharmaceutical grade. This is a statement of quality which I think any discerning e-smoker would appreciate. I will continue to e-smoke cautiously until manufacturers are readily willing to state the quality of the liquid we are inhaling.
     
  11. bishybob

    bishybob Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 9, 2008
    Arizona, USA
    I agree. At this point we may not know the long term effects of PG, or all of the side effects... But we should, at least, know that the companies are using good manufacturing practices and using pure ingredients.

    Mamba.. I love the Dr. Strangelove avatar!
     
  12. Mamba

    Mamba Full Member

    Jun 19, 2008
    U.S.A.
    Why thank you, Mein Führer!....uhhh....I mean, bishybob. ;)
     
  13. shogun

    shogun Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 11, 2008
    Iceland
    Can you tell me under what laws and regulations you work under in Europe? What do you have to do to import and sell e-cigs and cartridges in EU? Has EU indeed given a green light?

    Any information would be very helpful!
     
  14. Ludo

    Ludo Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Feb 27, 2008
    China
    I never said the EU has given green light. I said: we will have permission to import in Italy 0 mg and 6 mg cartridges. All cartridges are being tested by an Italian laboratory and will be approved by the Italian government for import.

    Please understand that we cannot give any information about how, what, where, when regarding e-cigarettes or cartridges, this is confidential corporate information.
     
  15. shogun

    shogun Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 11, 2008
    Iceland
    Ruyan: Thanks for your reply. I am not trying to find out any "corporate information" :rolleyes: I am just curious under what pretext (if that is the right word) you can import and sell e-cigarettes in Europe.

    Where I live (Iceland) it seems to be necessary to register all nicotine as a (legal) drug to import it. If my interpretation of the local law is right then only registered pharmacists could sell e-cigs. I am just wondering if there are some similar laws within the EU...
     
  16. Ludo

    Ludo Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Feb 27, 2008
    China
    We don't use a pretext we tell them exactly what it is, an electronic cigarette with non and 6 mg nicotine cartridges. Of course we have the necessary official certificates needed for import in Italy.

    How come the tobacco lobby is so strong in Iceland? Any government using the argument "it's a medication because it contains nicotine" should be sued for selling normal cigarettes over the counter! And any government permitting the sales of normal cigarettes should permit the electronic CIGARETTE, since that's what it is it is a CIGARETTE. So, it should actually be treated as a normal cigarette! that's my thinking...
     
  17. TropicalBob

    TropicalBob Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2008
    Port Charlotte, FL USA
    I so agree with your logic, but you need to sue the United States of America. There is a very specific definition of "cigarette" here in the States: It must contain tobacco and it must burn. An e-cig isn't a cigarette. If it isn't, then what is it? If it's a "drug delivery device," then it must meet testing standards for safety and efficacy, the same as are imposed on Big Pharmaceutical's smoking cessation products. Ruyan is doing the pioneering in this field with Dr. Laugesen in New Zealand. Congratulations. But if other governments see these products as NOT being cigarettes, then the trouble can begin.

    Cigarettes are legal here because of history. Nothing more. They are for smoking pleasure, not for delivery of nicotine, based on past rulings. That cannot be said of the e-cigarette. It has one purpose -- to deliver a drug, nicotine, to an addict in order to sustain the addiction. I wish Ruyan all the luck in the world as you deal with this worldwide.
     
  18. Ludo

    Ludo Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Feb 27, 2008
    China
    I consider the paper and the filter of a normal cigarette as the device, the tobacco and nicotine as the content. so to me it is a delivery device :p

    Anyway: Killer cigarettes are legal and can be sold and bought anywhere, at least in europe, the e-cigarette not.

    I'm just trying to understand the logic behind it :p
     
  19. DeviLFisH

    DeviLFisH Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 5, 2008

    :mad:I happen to find out today ...in singapore got someone is tending to bring in to sell locally but singapore health authority disapprove...it even this guy got ruyan cert and explaination and cert about this product.

    but singapore health authority said , it look like cigarette next , minor will treat it smoking is fun...

    I feel singapore scared more smokers will go into e cigarette instead the real ones so that they cannot earn from cigarette taxes.

    in singapore cigarette is expensive....and in future will keep increasing the price.
     
  20. shogun

    shogun Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 11, 2008
    Iceland
    Laws are not always based on logic and laws are certainly not always ethical. To assume this would be a mistake.

    Although many men and women at congress have the common good in mind when creating law, few are versed in ethical or logical (philosophical) thinking. This fact plus influences of lobbyist has the effect that laws often do more to hinder personal freedom and happiness than to increase it.
     
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