juice so expensive in the uk...

[Heed]

When I said large retailer I meant someone with more capacity than a few people getting together on a forum to order. Not some massive mega retailer "piling it high".

And when I hear numbers of orders of over £300,000 in value being shipped, I have to think that's going to result in better pricing than a few people on a forum ordering a few litres.

I know of one site that claims over 100,000 kits sold on its own -- and it's not one of the big names or listed here on the forum.

Are there some better prices than £17-£18 per 30ml? Yeah, some retailers have more reasonable pricing. But some are simply raking it in. Funny thing is, the better deal is usually to be had from the smaller retailer -- the one who is likely paying more for product than those who can afford larger shipments. Look a freddo's site, for example.

 

[sadtranz]

If you want cheap Ecopure Krystal £10 for 40ml @ 18mg but need to flavour

Liberty Flights or Icis both good and free postage @ £8 ish for 20ml

Icis is uk outlet of Y&C Tech Ltd is affiliated to Dekang Biotechnology Co., Ltd, the world’s dominant eliquid manufacturer and its subsidy - Boge Technology Co., Ltd

 

[hifistud]

When I said large retailer I meant someone with more capacity than a few people getting together on a forum to order. Not some massive mega retailer "piling it high".

And when I hear numbers of orders of over £300,000 in value being shipped, I have to think that's going to result in better pricing than a few people on a forum ordering a few litres.

You'd think - but the price breaks tend to stop at 1,000 units

I know of one site that claims over 100,000 kits sold on its own -- and it's not one of the big names or listed here on the forum.

Yeah, so do I (I suspect it's the same one) - and the wording is such that you might think that they had sold all 100,000 kits, but, in fact refers to a quote in a news item that said 100,000 kits had been sold in the UK as a total. Beautifully crafted piece of prose that, if read properly, doesn't actually say that they've sold that many, but implies that they have.

Are there some better prices than £17-£18 per 30ml? Yeah, some retailers have more reasonable pricing. But some are simply raking it in. Funny thing is, the better deal is usually to be had from the smaller retailer -- the one who is likely paying more for product than those who can afford larger shipments. Look a freddo's site, for example.

Since I don't know which one is Freddo's I'll have to take your word for it - but my take is that the average price for a 30ml bottle is in the £14 region, and that the higher profile vendors seem to be clustered around this mark.

As I say, this is a very new market, and it has a long way to go before it settles down. I'm sure we'll see the whole gamut come out - premium brands, budget brands, the full spectrum. There'll be speciality juices that have that extra something that people like, and will command a higher price, and there'll be budget juice that serves the purpose without being anything special that sells for 2/6d a gallon.

And then HMG will get wind, step in, and tax it to hell and back - it's inevitable if the market reaches critical mass. If some retailers are raking it in at present, and are predicting HMGs involvement (or are using their increased profits to get the NRT approvals ball rolling), it's hard to lambast them for it.

Just ask yourself how the Dragons would view a business that was solely selling PVs and juice...

 

[Lisaf01]

Hifi,
I've been reading your replies in this thread with great interest. As the market grows, no doubt prices will decrease, however I really think many people are completely in the dark about the costs of running a business here, particularly one such as this. They seem to think that the difference between the cost price and the retail price is all completely pocketed by the retailer and this is simply not the case - the costs are huge as you say.

I predict that prices will come down a litle, as more retailers enter the mix but then as they fail to meet UK CHIP and TS regulations, those retailers will close and prices may then rise again, particularly if regulations or taxing changes.

 

[Heed]

You'd think - but the price breaks tend to stop at 1,000 units

Which still means there are breaks up to that point beyond what a few people on a forum could be expected to receive.

Not to mention when you're buying product in the range of value of 10's of thousands to 100's of thousands of pounds you'd be a poor businessperson if you weren't getting a better than "usual" price from your supplier. You're moving a pretty good load of product for that supplier -- if you can't negotiate a pretty significant discount you're doing something wrong.

Yeah, so do I (I suspect it's the same one) - and the wording is such that you might think that they had sold all 100,000 kits, but, in fact refers to a quote in a news item that said 100,000 kits had been sold in the UK as a total. Beautifully crafted piece of prose that, if read properly, doesn't actually say that they've sold that many, but implies that they have.

Don't see a reference anywhere to a news item, but you could be correct. Regardless, when retailers are talking of 100's of thousands of pounds worth of orders we're not talking about a miniscule market.

Since I don't know which one is Freddo's I'll have to take your word for it - but my take is that the average price for a 30ml bottle is in the £14 region, and that the higher profile vendors seem to be clustered around this mark.

Well, there's three vendors who I would say are the most prominent in the UK market and they are all at the £17-£18 mark for 30ml -- I just checked.

It think freddo is mistliquid or something like that. Jefflan posted a link.

And then HMG will get wind, step in, and tax it to hell and back - it's inevitable if the market reaches critical mass. If some retailers are raking it in at present, and are predicting HMGs involvement (or are using their increased profits to get the NRT approvals ball rolling), it's hard to lambast them for it.

Hehe, okay then. The prices are what they are "just in case" -- that's not far from saying "it's what the market will bear". Which is my argument -- less to do with costs of business and more to do with what people pay to smoke cigarettes (or quit smoking cigarettes).

LisaF:

Please read what I've written before accusing me of simply thinking, "that the difference between the cost price and the retail price is all completely pocketed by the retailer".

That's why I've talked about markup and not profit.

And show me a retailer who isn't complaining about how high his costs are -- it's retail mantra number one.

Anyway, I think I'm done with this topic now. We'll just end up going around in circles, methinks.

Here's a good quote to end on from the thread a couple down:

I also think the retailers are probably maximizing their profits by working out their prices based on trying to make it only a little bit cheaper than what it would cost a smoker to buy analogues at uk prices. Instead of basing their prices on just a straightforward profit margin on what they can get the goods for. It should really be incredibly cheap to vape but it isn't.

 

[Lisaf01]

LisaF:

Please read what I've written before accusing me of simply thinking, "that the difference between the cost price and the retail price is all completely pocketed by the retailer".

That's why I've talked about markup and not profit.

Sorry mate, no offense intended to you in particular at all. You know your stuff but many people don't......

And show me a retailer who isn't complaining about how high his costs are -- it's retail mantra number one.

Very true

Anyway, I think I'm done with this topic now. We'll just end up going around in circles, methinks.

Always good to have a nice open debate though.......
Hope you didn't take offense at anything I said.

 

[hifistud]

Well, just to chime back in one more time... I've been spreadsheeting out our first order from suppliers, and thought 'd got everything pared down to the bone in terms of markup etc... then I showed it to my accountant, and he asked...

1. Carriage?
2. Duty? (Which I simply can't calculate at this point - won't know til the first proper order comes in)
3. How much does the web site cost to run for taking orders?
4. How much will it cost to actually process each order?
5. How much allowance have I made for payment method charges (CC, Paypal etc etc etc)
6. Advertising costs - google adwords? Local advertising? National?
7. TS Compliance - CHIP/Labelling? EH Compliance - Storage/purity testing? Costs?
8. Money transfer costs - use bank, WU, WP, T/T - what's best?
9. Exchange rate timing

AAAARRRGGGHHHHHH!

It all looks so simple until you have to factor all of this stuff in, and then what looked like a reasonable mark-up suddenly doesn't actually make any profit.

Anyway, I've been using around 30ml a month (this from a 60 a day habit), so even £20 is amazingly cheap - and atties?? I've killed roughly one every two months. It's not a bad price to pay, even if it is based on what the market will bear - cos I think I'd bear a much higher price than any of the current big three charge.

 

[surbitonPete]

Well, just to chime back in one more time... I've been spreadsheeting out our first order from suppliers, and thought 'd got everything pared down to the bone in terms of markup etc... then I showed it to my accountant, and he asked...

1. Carriage?
2. Duty? (Which I simply can't calculate at this point - won't know til the first proper order comes in)
3. How much does the web site cost to run for taking orders?
4. How much will it cost to actually process each order?
5. How much allowance have I made for payment method charges (CC, Paypal etc etc etc)
6. Advertising costs - google adwords? Local advertising? National?
7. TS Compliance - CHIP/Labelling? EH Compliance - Storage/purity testing? Costs?
8. Money transfer costs - use bank, WU, WP, T/T - what's best?
9. Exchange rate timing

AAAARRRGGGHHHHHH!

It all looks so simple until you have to factor all of this stuff in, and then what looked like a reasonable mark-up suddenly doesn't actually make any profit.

Anyway, I've been using around 30ml a month (this from a 60 a day habit), so even £20 is amazingly cheap - and atties?? I've killed roughly one every two months. It's not a bad price to pay, even if it is based on what the market will bear - cos I think I'd bear a much higher price than any of the current big three charge.

The average person on here vapes at least 3 to 4 ml per day so that's something more like £70 worth of juice a month and there are very few people who get anything like 2 months out of an atty....... and when it comes down to it, vaping is still as much a waste of money as tobacco is.

 

[sadtranz]

Surbitonpete
The average person on here vapes at least 3 to 4 ml per day so that's something more like £70 worth of juice a month and there are very few people who get anything like 2 months out of an atty....... and when it comes down to it, vaping is still as much a waste of money as tobacco is.

But at least you can enjoy a smoke without killing yourself how much is that worth?
£32 for 80ml + 2 atty's £7ish £40mnth cheap if you ask me

 

[Amberleaf]

What gets me is that zero-nic (0mg) from most suppliers costs the same as 34mg juice.. All you're getting is PG and flavouring.. I can't see it as being any less than 90% pure profit..

 

[Tim Robbins]

This one is real simple, guys you need to open up your own e-liquid shops!

I know mark up on the clothes you buy in the high street (brands names) tend to be 2.5 times the cost to buy. If you factor in how many people are giving free shipping, I don't know how suppliers can do this really, the maths make interesting reading.

That rubbsih site that says they have sold 100k? No way, I would be very surprised if the total UK kit sales have been that many as well. Just look at the communities available for e-smokers, there's not many at all. This forum and it hardly ever works, haha. I think we would all be surprised how small the community is, maybe that's a good thing (government etc).

All liquid costs the same from the supplier, regardless of the nic content. Yeap, 0 nic costs the same. Blame the manufacturers....

E-smoking is expensive because, lets face it, how manybits of liquid do we have lying around, unused or hardly used at all? It's part hobby. I don't recall every having 1000's of cigs lying around that I wouldn't use

 

[Tim Robbins]

300k orders? Who's bring those in? LOL. I bet most liquid shops start from very little capital and deal in orders of, oooh, 10k? USD!

 

[hifistud]

A $10k order would be about the max for most suppliers. IF there's been a £300k order, there's only one place it'll have come from, and it'll have gone to JOYE... and it won't all have been for juice. Not even close.

 

[googled]

I'm not sure where the 300k number came from but TW are doing $300k/month and are you sure it wasn't dollars rather than pounds? Maybe you're referring to this :

trutest..Ok if you say so.

You any idea how to store another 120 items, while unpacking a 5000 bottle 30ml order, a $100k titan order, Platinum ice coming and carrying $400k plus of stock, training 4 new members of staff and dealing with growth from $2000 of sales in december 2008 to $300k plus a month now.

We are doing well, all things considered but if you know better try doing it yourself.

By the way, we all have the option to buy direct from China, £6 for 30ml or even less in bulk and £1.50 shipping, the only difference is wait time. Heavens Gifts bottles are all child proof capped and with warning labels.

 

[fcuk112]

as well as importing directly from china, you always have the option to mix your own juice. it works out at about the same price i think...

 

[BarryK]

Just received this today from Eastmall (David Yang)

" Dear Customer,

First we thank you for your continuous support . Now we just write to kindly remind you that right now, Eastmall is doing a great sale during the holiday for liquid.

only $6 for each 20ml. cheapeast in the whole market.

all our price for the other hardware will beat other chinese supplier

please feel free to visit our web www.eastmall.net - Eastmall International Co.,Ltd

Thanks again

Kind regards
East Mall "

I've been buying juice (personal use only) from David for nearly a year now, with no complaints.

Barry

 

[Lisaf01]

Another vote for Eastmall from me, their prices are pretty keen and the service is always excellent!

 

[Bjorn Toulouse]

The reason most people (I belive) in the UK buy from TW and intellicig is trust. They trust that the liquid is what it states on the lable.
Don't get me wrong I have purchaced liquid from Heavens Gifts on a good few occasions and personaly dont mind the 16 day wait, like wise if I'm in a hurry I get some from liberty flights. Also I have bought liquid from TW and intellicig.
The mrs prefers me to buy from intellicig because she trusts UK produced liquid.
Alas there flavours are a smidge bland for me and its only made with VG as a base.

I for one hope the UK big 3 continue to grow. I don't mind paying £15 for 30ml but I won't pay £20, glass bottle or no glass bottle.

 

[Yick]

Another vote for Eastmall from me, their prices are pretty keen and the service is always excellent!

Yes i agree i just ordered 200ml for less than £50 delivered.
Now that is a good deal i think

 

[Lisaf01]

I for one hope the UK big 3 continue to grow. I don't mind paying £15 for 30ml but I won't pay £20, glass bottle or no glass bottle.

I actually prefer a plastic dropper bottle. I mean if you have the glass ones, then you risk spilling the whole lot, every time you drip........