Just got invited to my first cloud chasing competition

[Kaosanddoom]

Any pros out there with some good advice? Running a congestus mod and a Cerberus atty. Running dual 26650 mnke batteries so my amp limit is 40. (each battery can handle 20, so 40 combined, right?) so i will limit myself to about 35 amp draw to be safe. By my calculations, running at 7.4 volts for the two batteries, with a total resistance of .21 ohms, i should come in at 35 amps. My plan to achieve this in my cerburus is to run 6 vertical coils, each with a resistance of 1.25 ohms. using 24 gauge kanthal, and a coil ID of 4mm, that takes 10 wraps per coil. and then a simple vertical wick in each coil.

does anyone see any flaws with my math or logic? or have a better idea?

 

[Susan~S]

Does the competition have any rules you have to follow?

 

[AzPlumber]

The max amperage does not increase when batteries are in series, only voltage does

eta: and two fully charged batteries in series will be 8.4 volts

 

[nyiddle]

does anyone see any flaws with my math or logic? or have a better idea?

First, stacked batteries. Do NOT do that. Extremely dangerous. As someone using a mech mod, you should know this.

Amp limit doesn't "add up" and running .2 ohms at 20a (4.7v, voltage doesn't add up either, at least i thought), you'll be over your amp limit of 20a by 3a. While this may not cause a catastrophic failure (in all likelihood it won't), it will mean you're outside of the amp limit for your batteries. This can be an EXTREMELY dangerous game.

 

[Wraith504]

The max amperage does not increase when batteries are in series, only voltage does

eta: and two fully charged batteries in series will be 8.4 volts

On point!

 

[Kaosanddoom]

ok, good to know. so amp limit is 20 amps with these batteries even stacked. so i will be upgrading to the 50 amp sony batteries for more safety. My next question is why no stacked batteries. can someone give me the logic there, because i use my congestus in stacked mode every day, not saying thats right, but it is my daily vaporizer, so i should be aware of any safety issues, which i apparently am not.

as for rules, its just a local shop contest, so as far as i know, anything is game. i wasn't told about anything special. they invited me after they saw the setup i am planning on using, so i think its game atleast.

 

[rusirius]

As pointed out, stacked batteries does not double the current capacity... it does double voltage.. and freshly charged that's 8.4 volts... meaning on a .21 setup you'd be pushing 40A through your 20A batteries.... Do the rules state that you can "add" to the cloud via venting from your batteries?

Seriously, I'm not trying to be a .... here... but.... If you don't know these things you really shouldn't be entering a cloud chasing comp...

 

[Kaezziel]

Look up the batteries that are in my blog post... that is a 30A continuous draw 26650 battery.... do NOT run 50A on it. That is the Pulse or Burst Limit...
The 50A Sony batteries that you are referring to are the same... 30A Continuous/50A Burst...
Stacking is a bad idea, because with increased voltage and low resistance you are pulling more amps at a time... putting you deeper into the danger zone of venting a battery...
I would also ask where your battery vent holes are in your mod... a battery will swell before it vents... if this swelling blocks or cuts off access to your vent holes...... well, we all know what happens when you try to encase pressure inside of a small confined space....

 

[rusirius]

ok, good to know. so amp limit is 20 amps with these batteries even stacked. so i will be upgrading to the 50 amp sony batteries for more safety. My next question is why no stacked batteries. can someone give me the logic there, because i use my congestus in stacked mode every day, not saying thats right, but it is my daily vaporizer, so i should be aware of any safety issues, which i apparently am not.

as for rules, its just a local shop contest, so as far as i know, anything is game. i wasn't told about anything special. they invited me after they saw the setup i am planning on using, so i think its game atleast.

There are no 50amp Sony batteries... See my refer to my previous post referencing the section where i'm not trying to be a ......

As for stacked batteries... They must be matched when in series, and there are some concerns.... especially when pushing them to the edge... which is why it's not recommended for mech mods... If one battery has a slightly higher voltage than the other, then there is an imbalance causing one to do more work than the other... That doesn't just mean they are charged together... it means their discharge curves are matched almost perfectly... Let's say you decide to run your stacked batteries on a build that pushing 18 amps... if one battery's voltage is higher because the other one discharged faster, then that means it might be hitting 21amps while the other is only doing 15 amps... See the problem? Now one battery has exceeded it's limits...

 

[nyiddle]

Before the storm of people telling you why stacking batteries is a bad idea get into a whole separate argument about the subtle intricacies of Olympic dressage..

One of your batteries could potentially be discharging quicker than your other battery. As a result, this can lead to you either over-taxing the less-charged battery, or one battery trying to "loan" it's buddy some spare power, since it's lower than the bigger brother. The result, in either case, is bad.

The fact that you've been using this as your all-day setup without issue means that you've probably been using more-or-less normal coils.. If you were to go down to .2 ohms and try to fire your mod at 8.4 volts with your current batteries, you would GUARANTEE catastrophic failure. And there is no such thing as 50a Sony batteries. 50 amps is like, a metric ....LOAD of power.

 

[Warpigs]

Cool. I would like to go see one of these compititions, but would not be a participate as I don't sub ohm.

 

[Wraith504]

Cool. I would like to go see one of these compititions, but would not be a participate as I don't sub ohm.

If people like this are competing I would want to see it but far enough away that i dont get hit by shrapnel

 

[Kaezziel]

If people like this are competing I would want to see it but far enough away that i dont get hit by shrapnel

It is truly frightening at what some people are doing with mods.... even more frightening when you ask them about it and they shrug, grin, and then answer "I dunno... it makes KLAUWDS, tho!"

 

[Kaosanddoom]

answering a few questions here, so bear with me on the length. The competition is not for three months, thats why i am researching now. The congestus mod only has battery venting holes are on the bottom of the mod only. So i will need to do some research as to where to ad more vent holes. As far as the stacked batteries, i have a rc grade battery load tester available to me, so i will be checking the discharge rates of my batteries to ensure they will safely work together. Still researching on the batteries, so until then i have set my amp limit at 15 amps. That should make sure that i don't get anywhere near a possible battery overload situation. (right now i am running 8.4 volts with a .64 ohm resistance, with a total amp draw of 13.12. so even if one battery is only putting out 10 amps, the other would only be putting out 16 to make up for it.) I really like the higher voltage setup, as it allows me to run very large coils, which gives me really good vapor flavor. and the vape gets really warm like i like.

 

[tj99959]

Well at least you have the right user name for it.

Let me ask you a question, did you also play with matches as a kid?

 

[eratikmind]

Cool. I would like to go see one of these compititions, but would not be a participate as I don't sub ohm.

I'd probably watch through my Leupold spotting scope.

 

[skoony]

There are no 50amp Sony batteries... See my refer to my previous post referencing the section where i'm not trying to be a ......

As for stacked batteries... They must be matched when in series, and there are some concerns.... especially when pushing them to the edge... which is why it's not recommended for mech mods... If one battery has a slightly higher voltage than the other, then there is an imbalance causing one to do more work than the other... That doesn't just mean they are charged together... it means their discharge curves are matched almost perfectly... Let's say you decide to run your stacked batteries on a build that pushing 18 amps... if one battery's voltage is higher because the other one discharged faster, then that means it might be hitting 21amps while the other is only doing 15 amps... See the problem? Now one battery has exceeded it's limits...

if the batteries are in series the same amperage runs through both.
in the case of mismatched batteries you might have the possibility of stressing one while over heating the other.

 

[Dristwaz]

I'd highly recommend you read up on batteries and especially pay attention to what C rating is and how it relates to different battery chemistries.

A huge misconception I've noticed is that many think that a 2500 mAh 18650 battery has the same discharge rating as a 4000 mAh 18650 battery of the very same chemistry. This simply is not the case. The true amerage rating is based off of 3 things primarily. It's chemistry make-up, it's C rating (which is determined from chemistry and construction) and it's capacity. What this really means is that 10C 2500 maH battery can have a continuous load of 25A safely and the 4000 mAh one will have a 40A conitinous load rating. You can't just go off of it's an 18650 of the same chemistry make-up because the discharge rates are different!

Best thing you can do is to educate yourself fully on the battery you're using. Take a look at battery university's website on C-rating, battery discharge methods and lithium-based batteries information. I'd post the links but I'm not allowed to just yet.

 

[BeerGolfClouds]

From what I know, and I may be wrong here, there isn't a 26650 battery available that can match an 18650 vtc5 for safety purposes and amp limits.

I don't compete in cloud comps, but low sub-ohm vaping is what I need to stay off cigs. My current build could probably win one of your comps...dual 22ga micros on a Plume Veil at .18 ohms, with a brass Nemesis clone, pulling ~23 amps and 98 watts at full charge, not accounting for voltage drop. Accurately tested and re-tested often, I must add. Here's my point: Build only matters up to a certain point. Technique is what you need to really fog up a room. Make a safe build, and practice your vaping technique. Some uneducated person running triple-stacked batteries with a .0002 build will always lose to the dude running a simple .3 that has inhale and exhale mastered.

Stop stacking, build safely, and practice technique. My $.02, take it or leave it.

 

[Kaezziel]

From what I know, and I may be wrong here, there isn't a 26650 battery available that can match an 18650 vtc5 for safety purposes and amp limits.

I don't compete in cloud comps, but low sub-ohm vaping is what I need to stay off cigs. My current build could probably win one of your comps...dual 22ga micros on a Plume Veil at .18 ohms, with a brass Nemesis clone, pulling ~23 amps and 98 watts at full charge, not accounting for voltage drop. Accurately tested and re-tested often, I must add. Here's my point: Build only matters up to a certain point. Technique is what you need to really fog up a room. Make a safe build, and practice your vaping technique. Some uneducated person running triple-stacked batteries with a .0002 build will always lose to the dude running a simple .3 that has inhale and exhale mastered.

Stop stacking, build safely, and practice technique. My $.02, take it or leave it.

There is... the KeepPower 50A (stats in my blog post) it's pretty much the same as the VTCs 30A continuous/50A pulse...

Everything else you said is spot on... technique on building/wicking and inhale/exhale makes ALL the real difference