Kava for anxiety???

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Are you allergic to ragweed, Katmar?

If you are, don't drink chamomile, or you will react to it, too. Same family.

If not, it works pretty well. (I also use it when I henna my hair:D--it's useful stuff!)

I am not sure if I would take any herbs/supplements with the Lunesta. THey *do* have an effect, and I would be afraid of what the combination might do. You might call a pharmacist and ask (not a medical doctor--they do not know much at all about medications. For that information you need a pharmacist.)

I don't think a cup or two of chamomile would hurt, though.
 

CatVTTV

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That was my worry too kcr... its always best to check with a Doctor.

I was lucky, I got one of those Tassimo coffee makers for Christmas, and thats how Im getting Camomile tea...lol. I also have a Summer Fruits infusion, which is fabulous...lol

I too have some strange reactions to certain foods these days, Tomatoes, give me a real hard time now, in fact any fresh fruit does too, so I rely on the drinks not causing me too much trouble.. (she says keeping fingers crossed)
 

Madame Psychosis

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For generalized anxiety that needs help without making you sleepy (don't know if that is an issue), try GABA with some inositol and niacinimide (probably cheaper to by it all together in one bottle rather than 3 separate bottles).
I've had depression that hasn't responded to many common prescription drugs, so I've been through phases of supplement experimentation and research. My sympathy goes out to you as well. Some kept me going, many didn't.

(X-posted elsewhere from a GABA discussion here in the forum)
The important thing to remember about supplements (aside from the all-important drug interactions) is that they or their metabolites need to cross the blood-brain barrier to be psychoactive. Oral GABA does nothing because it can't cross the BBB. You could mainline it and it wouldn't work. It is a placebo. (Study, abstract summary, basic answer.) Finding single-compound GABA analogs that can cross the BBB is a large field of study and patents, because GABA imbalances are inherent in so many conditions.

I have seen some evidence for inositol in large doses (500mg-3g) for anxiety, but can't find the link right now. (Scientific evidence is my guiding star, if you couldn't tell. ;))

On to Kava!

Kava extract, on the other hand, does have active ingredients than can apparently cross the BBB and have anti-anxiety and sedative effects by hitting GABA-A and H1 and some other receptors. (Cool, it's a reversible MAO-B inhibitor too! That would increase your brain levels of dopamine and phenylethylamine. I love researching this stuff!)

I drank Kava in its raw form in Fiji where they ground the roots fresh, during parties in the village where I was volunteering. Tasted like pondwater. That was a nice buzz. :D I danced and slept better. :p

Yet I've never gotten that buzz from Kava supplements in the States. The active Kava compounds, the kavalactones, probably start to degrade with air exposure as soon as Kava root is ground into powder (perhaps water or alcohol extracts maintain potency longer?). The Kava root powder I bagged and brought home from the village and used a week later was almost useless, for instance.

Some companies use parts of the plant other than the root, which not only degrades the quality, it might be responsible for the reports of liver damage. So, the leaf extracts apparently are stronger in the psychoactive department than the root extracts (same study as link #1), but they're also more hepatotoxic (liver damage).

I'd stick with the root extracts, as they do have effect as well...or I sure thought so. :)

(If I can find the full text of this article, I'd be happy to send it along to you if you'd like? It suggests that taking glutathione along with kava reduces the liver effects, but it's only an abstract.)

However, I've heard good things about quality, standardized kava extracts. One company I've been recommended by an herbalist is this place, where you can buy whole root, or standardized strong kavalactone paste (for use in small amounts of course). I'm sure there are others. I just wouldn't trust any place that (1) doesn't have a standardized kavalactone % labeled and (2) doesn't specify what part of the plant it's from.

(Edited to add: #1 is less important than #2...as there are surely quality providers of kava root that are not big enough businesses to test or standardize percentages even if they have quality control and consistent procedures in dealing with the whole root. That just means that from batch to batch, you might get some strength variations...Just my thought.)


Important cautionary note:
Kava has a strong (temporary) inhibitory action on many important liver enzymes for drug metabolism (also tested here). If you're taking other medications, I'd be extremely cautious because this means it will increase your blood levels of many other drugs. (St. John's Wort has similar risks in this way.) Taking kava with other drugs is probably also a cause of liver damage because of the combined strain it puts on the liver in a few ways. If you're drinking caffeine at the same time (CYP1A2 metabolized) it will probably feel a lot stronger.
It doesn't appear to affect the enzymes responsible for nicotine metabolism (2A6 and 2B6) so you can vape. :)

Hope this helps, and that you find the right solution for you! [/pharmacology nerdgasm]
 
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Katmar

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    I've had depression that hasn't responded to many common prescription drugs, so I've been through phases of supplement experimentation and research. My sympathy goes out to you as well. Some kept me going, many didn't.

    (X-posted elsewhere from a GABA discussion here in the forum)
    The important thing to remember about supplements (aside from the all-important drug interactions) is that they or their metabolites need to cross the blood-brain barrier to be psychoactive. Oral GABA does nothing because it can't cross the BBB. You could mainline it and it wouldn't work. It is a placebo. (Study, abstract summary, basic answer.) Finding single-compound GABA analogs that can cross the BBB is a large field of study and patents, because GABA imbalances are inherent in so many conditions.

    I have seen some evidence for inositol in large doses (500mg-3g) for anxiety, but can't find the link right now. (Scientific evidence is my guiding star, if you couldn't tell. ;))

    On to Kava!

    Kava extract, on the other hand, does have active ingredients than can apparently cross the BBB and have anti-anxiety and sedative effects by hitting GABA-A and H1 and some other receptors. (Cool, it's a reversible MAO-B inhibitor too! That would increase your brain levels of dopamine and phenylethylamine. I love researching this stuff!)

    I drank Kava in its raw form in Fiji where they ground the roots fresh, during parties in the village where I was volunteering. Tasted like pondwater. That was a nice buzz. :D I danced and slept better. :p

    Yet I've never gotten that buzz from Kava supplements in the States. The active Kava compounds, the kavalactones, probably start to degrade with air exposure as soon as Kava root is ground into powder (perhaps water or alcohol extracts maintain potency longer?). The Kava root powder I bagged and brought home from the village and used a week later was almost useless, for instance.

    Some companies use parts of the plant other than the root, which not only degrades the quality, it might be responsible for the reports of liver damage. So, the leaf extracts apparently are stronger in the psychoactive department than the root extracts (same study as link #1), but they're also more hepatotoxic (liver damage).

    I'd stick with the root extracts, as they do have effect as well...or I sure thought so. :)

    (If I can find the full text of this article, I'd be happy to send it along to you if you'd like? It suggests that taking glutathione along with kava reduces the liver effects, but it's only an abstract.)

    However, I've heard good things about quality, standardized kava extracts. One company I've been recommended by an herbalist is this place, where you can buy whole root, or standardized strong kavalactone paste (for use in small amounts of course). I'm sure there are others. I just wouldn't trust any place that (1) doesn't have a standardized kavalactone % labeled and (2) doesn't specify what part of the plant it's from.

    Important cautionary note:
    Kava has a strong (temporary) inhibitory action on many important liver enzymes for drug metabolism (also tested here). If you're taking other medications, I'd be extremely cautious because this means it will increase your blood levels of many other drugs. (St. John's Wort has similar risks in this way.) Taking kava with other drugs is probably also a cause of liver damage because of the combined strain it puts on the liver in a few ways. If you're drinking caffeine at the same time (CYP1A2 metabolized) it will probably feel a lot stronger.
    It doesn't appear to affect the enzymes responsible for nicotine metabolism (2A6 and 2B6) so you can vape. :)

    Hope this helps, and that you find the right solution for you! [/pharmacology nerdgasm]

    That's what I was looking for!!!nWhat took you so long, Madame?????:rolleyes:
    Thanks for the info!!!!!!
     

    catlvr

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    Thank you too Madame Psychosis. You saved me alot of time searching for info. So Kava affects the liver. My doctor is watching out for that since he said that the Buspar can cause liver damage. I guess I'll talk to him about it before I try it. Although I have suffered from anxiety issues since I was young, I have always been able to keep a grip on things until lately. Going through menopause and quitting smoking at the same time is really throwing me for a loop. My usual herbal remedy just isn't cutting it anymore that's why I gave the Buspar a chance. It's working I guess but I would rather be able to get things under control myself or with the help of something natural not man made. Thanks again. Jennifer
     

    Madame Psychosis

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    No problem!

    My usual herbal remedy just isn't cutting it anymore that's why I gave the Buspar a chance.
    Buspar (buspirone) acts on serotonin and a bit of dopamine, so you'd definitely be switching strategies by trying kava instead. Just don't take them at the same time -- Buspar is metabolized by CYP3A4 in the liver so kava could really increase your blood concentrations of Buspar (effectively it'd be like jumping up in your dose).
    (It's why you can't drink grapefruit juice when taking Buspar either -- the grapefruit has bergamottin which is a 3A4 inhibitor like kava, and it would have a similar effect. I don't know for sure how grapefruit compares with kava in the strength of this effect on 3A4.)
    Hope you also find what works!

    Oh also -- you can get tested for liver function at any time if you/your doctor need to know how you're doing. Some prescription drugs and herbs can cause changes in liver function in some susceptible people but it's a simple blood test to make sure you're OK.
     
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    VapingRulz

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    I read where the liver damage reports were debunked. They were some European studies that either were not done right, or the subjects had underlying things going on. I will try to find it. That is why I am looking for someone who can tell me where to get good Kava.

    I use Kava kava root for making an herbal tincture. You can find it online if you Google "bulk herbs kava." Rocky Mountain Herbs has it - as do many other good herb suppliers.
     

    TWalker

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    I order mine Kona Kava Farm or from my local herb shop. I'm experimenting with vaporizing glycerin based herbs, in fact I'm vaping my first kava mixture as I write.

    Kava is hands down the best herb for anxiety I have tried, a very pleasant plant to ingest. If done right it is very difficult to be angry or fearful while on it. A very slight possibility for addiction.

    Valerian, while effective has always been a sleepy time herb for me, while Kava has effects more like alcohol, making me more social, possibly even stimulated but very relaxed without any of the bad effects of alcohol.

    My favorite herb of all time is Kava.
     

    Madame Psychosis

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    I read where the liver damage reports were debunked. They were some European studies that either were not done right, or the subjects had underlying things going on. I will try to find it. That is why I am looking for someone who can tell me where to get good Kava.
    Thanks for adding that, I dug back through what I'd seen -- that was the upshot of this recent review and another one assessing a handful of cases. There were always other factors in play that were also straining the liver and causality wasn't clear.

    It'd be tempting fate to mix kava with drinking or an alcohol habit (for the liver and for the additive downer effects)...but at least for me, any more than one drink already makes anxiety, depression, and sleep quality worse.

    The drug interactions are still a big concern in any case for other reasons (the enzyme inhibition activity of kava) but the bans on kava in the EU look like a complete regulatory overreaction based on limited data.

    (Hmmm, where have we seen that before...? :rolleyes: I'm just waiting for the FDA to use phrases like "ad hoc causality assessment" when vapers who had smoked for decades have health problems from former tobacco use.)

    I'll ask my herbalist buddies for any other source recommendations when I can.
     

    Katmar

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    Melatonin for sleep. OTC and great. 3-6mg should do you just fine.

    For anxiety...I could recommend a BUNCH of prescription drugs/hard drugs but you will be worse off in the end once you've gone from high to sober.

    Melatonin doesn't work for everyone and can, in fact, cause harm. Long term safety has not been established. Should only be take if you are over 18, not pregnant, or breast feeding, not taking other drugs besides otc analgesics or oral contraceptives. May cause retina damage. Also, should not be taken if you have depression.

    The second paragraph is SO true.....lol
     

    AlexTM

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    Kava is great, and those liver damage stories have been dismissed long ago. However, you might not need it, and certainly not presciption drugs. Thse are great, but hardly a long-term solution.

    You may be one of those approximately 20% of all vapers who needed more from tobacco than just nicotine. Have a look at the smokeless forum, there are defintely better options than analogs or prescription drugs.
     

    acezzz

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    d4rk3

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    Melatonin doesn't work for everyone and can, in fact, cause harm. Long term safety has not been established. Should only be take if you are over 18, not pregnant, or breast feeding, not taking other drugs besides otc analgesics or oral contraceptives. May cause retina damage. Also, should not be taken if you have depression.

    The second paragraph is SO true.....lol

    I had no idea about the melatonin. I mean, nothings harmless, but yeah. I don't take it every night and try to take breaks as long as possible, when possible.

    And yeah, I had and still have mild anxiety issues. As I said, the drugs are great till they wear off! Opiates FTMFW....
     
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