Let’s discuss freezing or refrigerating flavor concentrates

[dannyv45]

I’ve herd all the discussions on how bad it is to freezing or refrigerate flavor concentrates. I’m more convinced about not freezing concentrates but still on the fence about refrigerating. If the flavors are artificial molecules and not natural extracts then I’m not really even convinced that freezing would harm them.

We all know that freezing produce is a bad thing and the same I would imagine would be true for essence and natural extracts but refrigeration is good and prolongs produce so why does the same theory not apply to flavorings?

Artificial flavoring usually start out as solid crystal molecules that get desolved in a PG, VG or alcohol base. I would imagine freezing these solids in a dry environment away from moisture would not harm these solids. Further if these solids are desolved in a freezable base that is seal this would also not be harmed by freezing. It has been said that freezing would change the molecular structure of the molecule but again I'm not quite convinced. I am no scientist and maybe there are a few knowledge professionals out there that work in a similar scientific field that would like to comment. But comments by all are welcomed and encouraged

So let’s here your opinion…..GO!

 

[DetraMental]

My first reaction to the heading was, "No" I would not freeze my flavorings. I could foresee a separation of ingredients and not see a smooth transition of getting them mixed well enough for reuse. Some things aren't meant to be frozen. I'd be afraid of ice crystal formation and it's disastrous effects. Freezer burn. If the flavor has been opened for tasting then the seal has been broken. So freezing those would open them to moisture. I still don't think a sealed unopened bottle is any safer from the same fate. Never tried it and have no scientific reference.

 

[spaceballsrules]

I think the better question would be is there any real benefit to refrigerating or freezing them. The whole point of refrigeration is to slow down the growth of bacteria, but do flavorings, which are already suspended in a preservative, even promote bacterial growth?

 

[Kurt]

There is no bacterial growth in PG or ethanol.

Freezing or cooling may or may not cause some flavor compounds to separate or precipitate as solids from solution. A bad thing? Not really if you bring it back to room temperature and shake the contents back into solution.

Over time more volatile components will evaporate from an open container. In glass and well sealed I have not had any loss of flavor or significant changes to any of my flavors at room temp. I do not store mine in the fridge or freezer, and I don't see a reason too.

tobacco flavors that use natural tobacco extract can change over time (probably oxidation), and cooling might slow that change, if that is desired...unless you want the change, which is often the case with tobaccos. Artificial tobaccos don't tend to change at room temp in glass in my experience.

But keep in mind that when you open a flavor, the main note you smell is that which is evaporating the fastest.

If someone has had concentrated flavors go bad or just less at room temperature, please let us know. I have not had this happen, and some of my flavors are years old. I have a lot of flavors, but not all that are available, by any stretch.

 

[cookiebun]

I still haven't got an answer whether or not LIGHT is bad for flavorings, let alone refrigeration or freezing.

I keep my flavors double bagged an inside a large plastic storage bin. Each bottle goes in its own small ziplock and then I put them in to bigger ziplocks sorted by brand. 1 big bag for tfa, 1 big bag for fa etc.

Is a root cellar warmer than a fridge? If I had a root cellar I'd consider storing them there.

 

[DetraMental]

Cookiebun I wouldn't put my flavorings where they would encounter direct sunlight, if this is your question. I think they would be perfectly fine if they were in a spice rack somewhere in one's kitchen or on a desk, in a drawer, or in a container.

 

[glasseye]

There was a thread quite some time ago and it was recommended by a flavor house to rebottle any flavorings in plastic to glass for long term storage. Long term may have been 2 or 3 years, I can't remember. I did buy some small bottles but there's no way I'd do all of them. I have regular kitchen flavorings that have been OK for years.

 

[dannyv45]

Thanks everyone for your input. Love the information, comments and opinions it all makes a lot sense keep it coming. This is an important issue and a constant topic here on the forums.

 

[cookiebun]

Cookiebun I wouldn't put my flavorings where they would encounter direct sunlight, if this is your question. I think they would be perfectly fine if they were in a spice rack somewhere in one's kitchen or on a desk, in a drawer, or in a container.

My apartment is a cave. The flavorings are well away from the sun. I'm worried about artificial light as well.

There was a thread quite some time ago and it was recommended by a flavor house to rebottle any flavorings in plastic to glass for long term storage. Long term may have been 2 or 3 years, I can't remember. I did buy some small bottles but there's no way I'd do all of them. I have regular kitchen flavorings that have been OK for years.

I've been considering this. I have enough glass bottles.

 

[Train2]

I don't recall where, but someone had suggested a pretty short shelf life for flavorings. I think it was 6 months to a year. I was surprised at the time, and I'm happy to be hearing people say their flavorings don't fade quickly.
I keep mine (so far) in the darkness of a tacklebox. And much of what I've purchased comes in glass. But I WOULD like to know what kind of shelf life they have - as I might well buy stuff without knowing when I'd use it. Or buy something I DO use in a larger volume - if it'll last a couple years.

I can see how it's possible that refrigeration might slow the degradation of a flavor, if it's unstable and will lose potency over time. I just don't know whether that's the case or not!

Sooo - more input from people who HAVE stored flavors for a while would be valuable!

 

[SupplyDaddy]

Personally, Most flavorings I've seen are either in alcohol or PG. Neither of those really "freeze" in our home refrigerators. If there is a high enough amount of water in the mix, then we will have freezing.
Believe me, if you knew how long the military MRE's are stored Frozen before they get to our troops, you wouldn't worry about the effects of freezing or refrigerating e-liquids very much!

 

[Jayvaps]

I use an old wine fridge set at 60degrees to store my bulk PG and VG and the nic(my ready stash...the long term is in the freezer.)

The main reason I do this is I had the fridge and it wasnt getting any use, it keeps the items all in one place and I figure the slightly cooler than room temperature yet not as cold as a fridge temp is just about right. I mean, if it is good for wines, why not this stuff?

I have been wondering if storing the flavorings in there would be a problem or a benefit. I do store EM in solution(as well as some other items like my acids suspended in PG) in the wine fridge and it doesnt seem to be a problem. I guess I could test it out and see. hmmm.

 

[Danoman]

I have some ideas on this... if water is involved, it's everything, if not, it shouldn't hurt it at all. I'm talking the fridge, not the freezer. *looking also at a 4 states of matter* (remembering my chemistry days back in school) I'll post when I get more time to share...

 

[dannyv45]

But I WOULD like to know what kind of shelf life they have

I second that there really hasn't been much discussion on shelf life of flavoring. Most of mine are under 9 months.

So what's the oldest flavor that you all have and have you sampled it lately and know if it's still good?

 

[Blitzdonlife]

My oldest flavor is a green apple flavoring I ordered from madvapes back in 2010. It is stored in the original plastic bottle it came in. It now tastes like apple tobacco, much better than when new. Most of my other flavors (WL) are 6 months or newer and have been stored in glass vials the whole time. No noticable change in taste/smell/potency. I think the green apple (madvapes) must have been organic at least in part, i think that is why that one changed.

 

[Danoman]

Okay, water has unusual properties between a frozen state all the way to a plasma state... the molecules react differently at each state. (they DO change)

Question is... VG/PG and Nic isn't harmed in the normal states that we put them in, whether frozen or liquid. (other than possibly in the vaporizing state that we vape, wouldn't this be putting our liquids into a plasma type state that we vape and inhale...?)
But, the thing i'm looking at here is that if you warm the molecules to just under a boil, the excited molecules are able to interact with the other molecules in the 'mix' more readily, also it thins down the VG and PG to a lighter viscosity and would 'blend' better. When we have a warm liquid in this state then place it in the fridge to cool fairly rapidly from a heated stage to a cold stage, it 'should bond those molecules to each other more rapidly, i'd think. (the reason for the experiment i'm doing this week)
When oxygen is allowed to get into the chemistry... it TOO would be bonding to the chemistry of our mixes as well. I vigorously shake my bottles before I refill my tanks, just as habit I guess. LOL
So, with all this chemistry going on within' that bottle of mix, I can clearly see why some flavors 'change' or become more or less prominent than others over time. in my personal opinion... from what I've seen and read, the only thing changing the color of our mixes is the oxygen that we are moving around in the bottles as we open and close them and it also blends in them as we shake them. But, too... the oxygen/nitrogen in the air may be playing a part in this as well too. I'll post results and pics after the experiment... I too am interested in this.

 

[glasseye]

I don't recall where, but someone had suggested a pretty short shelf life for flavorings. I think it was 6 months to a year. I was surprised at the time, and I'm happy to be hearing people say their flavorings don't fade quickly.
I keep mine (so far) in the darkness of a tacklebox. And much of what I've purchased comes in glass. But I WOULD like to know what kind of shelf life they have - as I might well buy stuff without knowing when I'd use it. Or buy something I DO use in a larger volume - if it'll last a couple years.

I can see how it's possible that refrigeration might slow the degradation of a flavor, if it's unstable and will lose potency over time. I just don't know whether that's the case or not!

Sooo - more input from people who HAVE stored flavors for a while would be valuable!

That may have been a Capella thread, specifically some of the flavors we bought during a big sale they had a few months ago going bad quickly.

The thing is...we don't know how old they are when we get them. Was the Capella thing a fluke? Were they just getting old stock out? We probably won't ever know and it's not going to stop me from buying certain flavors from them. Some of the flavors come by slow boat and they've had a month of travel time that we know of. Where were they before that?

I'm not really concerned about it. Out of all the flavorings I have only one was suspect. That's pretty darn good.

 

[FinallyQuit]

I got a bunch of flavors {including creams} from 2011 that I'm still using. They aren't any nastier today than they were then. . .smell fine, not separated, not discolored. If I ever run across one that's rancid I'll toss it, but so far so good. I keep them in their original packages whether glass vials or plastic dripper bottles, in a tackle box inside a rubbermaid storage tote. Temp changes in my house are pretty extreme, stays pretty warm in summer and pretty cool in winter.

 

[dannyv45]

Okay, water has unusual properties between a frozen state all the way to a plasma state... the molecules react differently at each state. (they DO change)

Question is... VG/PG and Nic isn't harmed in the normal states that we put them in, whether frozen or liquid. (other than possibly in the vaporizing state that we vape, wouldn't this be putting our liquids into a plasma type state that we vape and inhale...?)
But, the thing i'm looking at here is that if you warm the molecules to just under a boil, the excited molecules are able to interact with the other molecules in the 'mix' more readily, also it thins down the VG and PG to a lighter viscosity and would 'blend' better. When we have a warm liquid in this state then place it in the fridge to cool fairly rapidly from a heated stage to a cold stage, it 'should bond those molecules to each other more rapidly, i'd think. (the reason for the experiment i'm doing this week)
When oxygen is allowed to get into the chemistry... it TOO would be bonding to the chemistry of our mixes as well. I vigorously shake my bottles before I refill my tanks, just as habit I guess. LOL
So, with all this chemistry going on within' that bottle of mix, I can clearly see why some flavors 'change' or become more or less prominent than others over time. in my personal opinion... from what I've seen and read, the only thing changing the color of our mixes is the oxygen that we are moving around in the bottles as we open and close them and it also blends in them as we shake them. But, too... the oxygen/nitrogen in the air may be playing a part in this as well too. I'll post results and pics after the experiment... I too am interested in this.

Interesting therory please keep us posted

 

[dannyv45]

So to recap the issue of how long flavors stay good at room temperature. From what I've read here so far the oldest seems to be from 2010. and the average seems to be about 2 years. So far this is very encouraging.

Anyone else care to comment on how old there oldest flavor is and is it still good?