Li ion and Li MN batteries

[Jcspirit]

I'm some what new to e-cigs, and I'm new to the forum. I have been looking at batteries. From what I have read, Li ion batteries are a typ to avoid, and Li MN are safer.
I'm looking for a 14500 size, 3.7 volt, 1800 2200 mah battery. I can only find it in a Li ion typ battery. It will be use with a PC Circuit board. Still, I don't what to use Li ion batteries. I can find a 18560 size, but that is bigger then what I'm looking for
Are there any Li MN 14500 size 3.7 volt batteries.

 

[Susan~S]

I use an AW IMR 14500 battery in my Reo mini Woodvil. RTD Vapor - AW IMR 14500 650mAh

 

[Baditude]

I'm some what new to e-cigs, and I'm new to the forum. I have been looking at batteries. From what I have read, Li ion batteries are a typ to avoid, and Li MN are safer.
I'm looking for a 14500 size, 3.7 volt, 1800 2200 mah battery. I can only find it in a Li ion typ battery. It will be use with a PC Circuit board. Still, I don't what to use Li ion batteries. I can find a 18560 size, but that is bigger then what I'm looking for
Are there any Li MN 14500 size 3.7 volt batteries?

The AW 14500 IMR 650 mah 9 amp (continuous) is the best 14500 IMR battery available by far

 

[Alien Traveler]

I'm some what new to e-cigs, and I'm new to the forum. I have been looking at batteries. From what I have read, Li ion batteries are a typ to avoid, and Li MN are safer.
I'm looking for a 14500 size, 3.7 volt, 1800 2200 mah battery. I can only find it in a Li ion typ battery. It will be use with a PC Circuit board. Still, I don't what to use Li ion batteries. I can find a 18560 size, but that is bigger then what I'm looking for
Are there any Li MN 14500 size 3.7 volt batteries.

Li-Mn battery is a Li-ion battery (subcategory). They usually marked as IMR batteries and Baditude showed you the best in the class (it is his opinion and I believe him).

 

[Jcspirit]

I use an AW IMR 14500 battery in my Reo mini Woodvil. RTD Vapor - AW IMR 14500 650mAh

Ok, thanks. Is there any high then 650 mah?

 

[LikeABoss]

Just an FYI, AW are rewraps of other cores.. 90% of the time they are Panasonic and sometimes Sanyo cells..then marked up..They just wear Andrews initials (AW)..I'm not saying they aren't good cells..they are..I just won't pay an extra 40% or more for a rewrapped cell.

Check here..these guys are a trusted vendor out of southern Cali. They are also one of the only places I know of that batch test each delivery to ensure they are authentic.
Batteries - Batteries, Chargers, and PowerPax Carriers

On a side note: I was speaking with Andrew a few months back and he suspected that around 70-80% of the AW cells out there are fakes.. one dead giveaway he said was the recycle symbol on the wrap.. they should always be solid black, not a black border with red inside. The one above for instance...likely a fake from what he told me..

 

[Baditude]

Ok, thanks. Is there any high then 650 mah?

Not for an IMR in 14500 size. This battery size has limitations simply because of its size. You can only pack so much battery material into such a small container.

BTW, despite what others say about AW rewrapping batteries, I believe their IMR batteries are not rewraps but made by AW in China. I base this upon the following:

AW admits to re-wrapping ICR batteries from Japanese manufacturers. On the shrinkwrap it says, "Made in China, Cell made in Japan". You pay more for AW because each individual battery has been tested for high quality. Batteries are not created equal when leaving the factory, even those made in Japan. AW will not sell a subpar battery.

AW IMR's were the FIRST high drain, safe chemistry batteries offered to the battery industry, before any of the Japanese manufacturers sold any. On the label it says only, "Made in China".

Japanese manufacturers do not make IMR batteries in 14500, 18350, and 18490 size, only AW does.​

 

[Jcspirit]

Just an FYI, AW are rewraps of other cores.. 90% of the time they are Panasonic and sometimes Sanyo cells..then marked up..They just wear Andrews initials (AW)..I'm not saying they aren't good cells..they are..I just won't pay an extra 40% or more for a rewrapped cell.

Check here..these guys are a trusted vendor out of southern Cali. They are also one of the only places I know of that batch test each delivery to ensure they are authentic.
Batteries - Batteries, Chargers, and PowerPax Carriers

On a side note: I was speaking with Andrew a few months back and he suspected that around 70-80% of the AW cells out there are fakes.. one dead giveaway he said was the recycle symbol on the wrap.. they should always be solid black, not a black border with red inside. The one above for instance...likely a fake from what he told me..

Thanks, I will check it out

 

[Jcspirit]

Not for an IMR in 14500 size. This battery size has limitations simply because of its size. You can only pack so much battery material into such a small container.

BTW, despite what others say about AW rewrapping batteries, I believe their IMR batteries are not rewraps but made by AW in China. I base this upon the following:

AW admits to re-wrapping ICR batteries from Japanese manufacturers. On the shrinkwrap it says, "Made in China, Cell made in Japan". You pay more for AW because each individual battery has been tested for high quality. Batteries are not created equal when leaving the factory, even those made in Japan. AW will not sell a subpar battery.

AW IMR's were the FIRST high drain, safe chemistry batteries offered to the battery industry, before any of the Japanese manufacturers sold any. On the label it says only, "Made in China".

Japanese manufacturers do not make IMR batteries in 14500, 18350, and 18490 size, only AW does.​

I have found 14500 size 2000 mah, but it was a Li ion (ICR). Reading reveiws on Li ion batteries. They sound unsafe and that when useing then, it always needs protection.

 

[Baditude]

I have found 14500 size 2000 mah, but it was a Li ion (ICR). Reading reveiws on Li ion batteries. They sound unsafe and that when useing then, it always needs protection.

You are absolutely correct. I had a Trustfire 14500 ICR battery vent/flame/explode in a mechanical mod about three years ago when the mod's fire switch forced it to autofire and overdischarge the battery into failure.

Issue with Battery

ICR batteries are now considered to be obsolete for use in vaporizers. Use only IMR or IMR/hybrid chemistry batteries.

Battery Basics for Mods: IMR or ICR?

Deeper Understanding of Mod Batteries

 

[LikeABoss]

There are no true 2000mah 14500's. The specs are exaggerated.. stay away from them at all costs.
You'll want to stick with a UL listed quality cell made by one of the big 5 manufacturers.. Panasonic/Sanyo/LG/Sony/Samsung etc..
Everything else you see is either a rewrapped cell Example; Keeppower's are Panasonic cores.. Efest are generally LG's or Sony's. AW's are generally Panasonic's..
The ones you see that are 2000Mah etc are generally salvaged cells that are cleaned up and given a fresha wrap and sold off under a brand name that has "fire" in the name.. you don't want those..

Illumn has some of the best prices and use only trusted brands..you don't have to buy from them but you can use them as a reference for finding quality cells and referencing for specs.

If you want them to last you years, and several hundred cycles then buy quality cells from trusted brands..if you don't mind them possibly venting, leaking lithium or burning up whatever your using them in, then by all means pennypinch and buy some GTL/Trustfires etc.. This is one area I personally refuse to skimp..I've worked with lithium cells daily for over a decade..I've pushed more cells to point of failure than most have ever owned, and i've seen what recycled budget cells do..as for vaping, batteries are one of the most likely points of failure..well that and chargers..i refuse to lose a finger or possibly my home and its contents over $1 in savings..just my $0.02 tho

 

[LikeABoss]

As for the AW batteries.. AW has never manufactured lithium batteries.. they only buy cores and rewrap them.. Not all lithium cells are made in Japan, Sony,Samsung,Sanyo,Panasonic and LG all have plants in China.

Illumn does performance testing on all their cells as well, without rewrapping them and tacking on a percentage. If you choose to buy AW's, just make sure your getting them from a licensed reseller/distributor, there are far too many fakes out there. The point I am trying to make is, you can get the same cells used by AW at half the price without sacrificing quality.

There are only 1 or 2 UL listed and approved manufacturers who make 14500 cells. Everything else is simply rewrapped, no need to pay more for that though.

 

[Baditude]

As for the AW batteries.. AW has never manufactured lithium batteries.. they only buy cores and rewrap them.. Not all lithium cells are made in Japan, Sony,Samsung,Sanyo,Panasonic and LG all have plants in China.

Then how was it that AW (Andrew Wan) was the first to offer IMR (high drain, safe chemistry) batteries on the market, before the Japanese manufacturers did?

Why does only AW offer IMR batteries in 14500, 18350, and 18490 size? (Not counting Efest)

LG, Panasonic, Sony, Sanyo, and Samsung don't offer these size batteries that I've ever seen. If AW doesn't make these then who does?

Just asking because I believe AW probably makes their own IMR batteries. I agree that, at least initially, AW re-wrapped Japanese ICR batteries. AW ICR's even say "Made in China, Cells made in Japan." AW IMR's only say "Made in China." Batteries are not all created equal when leaving the factory. AW took the time to test each one individually and only sold the top tier as AW brand. In my thinking, worth a couple of dollars for a product that will last a couple of years use.

 

[LikeABoss]

Panasonic and Sanyo both make 14500's and 18490/18500's
Panasonic makes 18350's

AW has never manufactured cells, never, not once.. His name is Andrew, he buys cores and rewraps them, puts his initials on them and sells them..

I don't bother with AW's for a number of reasons.. I know what cores he uses and flat out refuse to pay double or more for each one.. Andrew can't possibly test each cell..he couldn't remain profitable spending half a day testing each one..he'd only be able to sell a few batteries per day.. he tests one..it cuts the mustard, he gives them the stamp of approval and uses them from then on out..

He said that he though that somewhere around 75-85% of the AW cells out there were phony/fake..especially the ones on ebay..

I not saying by any means that AW cells aren't good..they are..im just saying they aren't special by any means.. There are other people that performance test cells to make sure they are what they say they are..they are very few places that do that though. I mentioned the other guys that do so in my previous posts.. most people simply buy batteries, then add their markup and resell them..they never test them, let alone take them out of the package...most places just assume what they had been sent was authentic and send them right back out the door..lately some of them put a sticker on them with the capacity, which drives me nuts, because in most cases they cover the markings on the wrap, then you can't even see what specific cell it is to reference its specs if you needed to...

 

[Jcspirit]

There are no true 2000mah 14500's. The specs are exaggerated.. stay away from them at all costs.
You'll want to stick with a UL listed quality cell made by one of the big 5 manufacturers.. Panasonic/Sanyo/LG/Sony/Samsung etc..
Everything else you see is either a rewrapped cell Example; Keeppower's are Panasonic cores.. Efest are generally LG's or Sony's. AW's are generally Panasonic's..
The ones you see that are 2000Mah etc are generally salvaged cells that are cleaned up and given a fresha wrap and sold off under a brand name that has "fire" in the name.. you don't want those..

Illumn has some of the best prices and use only trusted brands..you don't have to buy from them but you can use them as a reference for finding quality cells and referencing for specs.

If you want them to last you years, and several hundred cycles then buy quality cells from trusted brands..if you don't mind them possibly venting, leaking lithium or burning up whatever your using them in, then by all means pennypinch and buy some GTL/Trustfires etc.. This is one area I personally refuse to skimp..I've worked with lithium cells daily for over a decade..I've pushed more cells to point of failure than most have ever owned, and i've seen what recycled budget cells do..as for vaping, batteries are one of the most likely points of failure..well that and chargers..i refuse to lose a finger or possibly my home and its contents over $1 in savings..just my $0.02 tho

That is good enough for me. I will do that, and thanks for the input

 

[Jcspirit]

As for the AW batteries.. AW has never manufactured lithium batteries.. they only buy cores and rewrap them.. Not all lithium cells are made in Japan, Sony,Samsung,Sanyo,Panasonic and LG all have plants in China.

Illumn does performance testing on all their cells as well, without rewrapping them and tacking on a percentage. If you choose to buy AW's, just make sure your getting them from a licensed reseller/distributor, there are far too many fakes out there. The point I am trying to make is, you can get the same cells used by AW at half the price without sacrificing quality.

There are only 1 or 2 UL listed and approved manufacturers who make 14500 cells. Everything else is simply rewrapped, no need to pay more for that though.

I would agree with you on AW's. I have read good reveiws on them, Thanks for the info

 

[Baditude]

Panasonic and Sanyo both make 14500's and 18490/18500's
Panasonic makes 18350's.

Odd. I tried Googling Panasonic and Sanyo IMR batteries and got nothing but 18650 models.

I guess we agree to disagree.

 

[Jcspirit]

So, I think it's clear on what to do who to buy from, what is a good cell, and what to stay away from.
In order to have a larger mah rating. I will have to go with a 18650, good name brand. I will probably look at the vendors mentioned, and buy from them. Thanks everyone for your time, and help.

 

[r77r7r]

So, what's safer, an OEM Li-on, or the many faked Li-mn?

 

[Baditude]

So, what's safer, an OEM Li-on, or the many faked Li-mn?

That's easy. Neither!

Seriously, the Li-ion may or may not be a protected ICR (volatile chemistry). The fake Li-Mn may be any used/harvested battery from a laptop or lower-tier reject IMR rewrapped or disguised to look like a new reputable brand IMR.