Li-po batteries
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The MVP uses them and so a few high power regulated box mods. You can't take them out to charge so you'r stuck with the built in charger. They are also usually not user replaceable, unless you can solder.
I like the idea. It takes a lot to get them to vent and when they do they are a bit more energetic than IMR or hybrids, but not nearly as bad as ICR. And I can solder
I like the idea. It takes a lot to get them to vent and when they do they are a bit more energetic than IMR or hybrids, but not nearly as bad as ICR. And I can solder
There's a multitude of reasons currently, they could change as technology does. I am assuming you're talking about a cylindrical format such as 18650, as LiFePO4 batteries are used in rectangle packs in some box mods.
18650 LiFePO4 cells are few and far between, the only current manufacturer I know of is A123 systems(LiFePO4 Battery | 18650 LiFePO4 Cell | A123 Cells) and they are 3.2v not 3.7v batteries and require a special charger, at full charge they only sit at 3.6v and with just 1100mah they are also very low on capacity, but can withstand 30A constant. Technology may catch up sooner rather than later but as of right now there is no real 18650 LiFePO4 option out there.
Edit: They also make a 26650, but again they are not suitable for vaping as they are only 3.2v cells. They would perform at below average to poor as an IMR battery replacement due to the low output voltage.
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Froth, I don't think LiFePO4, nominal 3.3v, is what is commonly referred to as Li-po. This is what I think of; Turnigy 2200mAh 1S 20C Lipoly (Single Cell). They are 3.7v nominal and I don't believe they are iron phosphate based. They can also be had in cylindrical format, but it's rare.
I'm pretty sure he's talking about standard lipo, used in lots of things including the cell phone I'm typing on now. I use a ton of them in various RC equipment. They can be dangerous if discharged below 3v per cell and then recharged. I have seen them used a fair bit in some home made mods, and in a couple of commercial ones. Lots of these packs support in excess of 65C discharged rates. As for why they aren't more common? I suspect for exactly the reason you stated, their form factor tends to not be quite as compatible with our mods, and 18650 is easier for a normal person to swap, etc.
Excuse my post haha, up too late burning the oil reading five different pages at once...
Edit: Some of what I said applies to LiPo batteries, well not very much of it but... yeah...we'll just go with that.
Edit: Some of what I said applies to LiPo batteries, well not very much of it but... yeah...we'll just go with that.
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Excuse my post haha, up too late burning the oil reading five different pages at once...
Edit: Some of what I said applies to LiPo batteries, well not very much of it but... yeah...we'll just go with that.
No worries man. FWIW, I've seen this mixed up a couple of times now on ECF!
Vape on
I'm wondering about any of them I know there are some that aren't too big and can withstand a huge current draw to me that would be ideal it would open up a lot more possibilities in coil builds and cloud chasing wouldn't be so dangerous in some ways but this is my opinion as I dint know a lot more than what I have already put in this post.
A battery that can handle the current draw is only the tip of the iceberg. To handle high current you would also need heaver wiring, say some nice 10 ga copper, then a switch that can handle the current also, arcing in switches is normal with high current.
Then there is the 510 connector, high current and most all power connectors are plug and socket type, not at all like a 510. Think plugging anything into a wall socket, the plug is enclosed within the socket, not just slapping two contacts together, this is done on purpose for safety...
The charger is entirely different also, and not nearly as simple. Think how many have problems with an eGo charger, and even more with cheap junk 18650 chargers, and many battery problems occur while charging.
Right I agree with that but the simplest change I can make in a mod is the battery and I focus on finding a good battery and then I find a mod or change stuff around on my mods to handle what I'm gonna be running through it which is why I wanna know what is wrong with li-po batteries for say a box mod that can take the bigger batteries that handle insane amp draws if they are safe to use I might make a mech mod that can take one or possibly see what I have to do to start manufacturing them.
RC Lipo are the most dangerous batteries around. I wouldn't charge one inside my house. period.
Do a quick search in youtube for "rc lipo fire" and you'll see what I mean. RC Lipo, when overcharged, undercharged, shorted, or punctured will often (but not always) burst into a big plasma fire.
All that said, lots of vape devices use Lipo...innokin mvp/vtr are examples. They're used in laptops and cel phones lots as wel, but they aren't using ......o brand 60C RC Lipo, and they are protected with circuitry.
Personally, I bought a pack of 6 genuine Sony VTC5's off ali express and haven't looked back.
Do a quick search in youtube for "rc lipo fire" and you'll see what I mean. RC Lipo, when overcharged, undercharged, shorted, or punctured will often (but not always) burst into a big plasma fire.
All that said, lots of vape devices use Lipo...innokin mvp/vtr are examples. They're used in laptops and cel phones lots as wel, but they aren't using ......o brand 60C RC Lipo, and they are protected with circuitry.
Personally, I bought a pack of 6 genuine Sony VTC5's off ali express and haven't looked back.
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I use Li-po in model airplanes. They can be discharged quite fast. I've seen them run so hard they heat up to the point of being too hot to pick up. There are batteries that claim 60-80C rates, but I don't believe them to be accurate.
If I were you I would do a lot of research on Li-po safety and just how hard they can be pushed. Maybe buy a few packs and check it out myself. There is nothing better than first hand experience with technology new to us. Compare that to what you can get from multi cell hybrid Li-ion setups and see how you feel about the risk in each scenario.
I would also not talk about manufacturing them here. I believe that's against the rules for regular members and it's not required to get information. Just keep in mind if someone using something you built gets hurt you can count on being sued, no matter what reason they got hurt. The modding sub-forums are probably better to get info. Some very knowledgeable people hang there. I would however do quite a bit of my own research first.
Li-po got a bad rap years ago when they first started to be used by the model airplane guys and a bunch of them blew up. They didn't know how to handle them and I think they were more volatile back then too. It's actually pretty hard to make them vent. Most of the time when they vent, there is a lot of smoke and heat, but no flames. As you said, there are a lot of Li-pos in the vape world and there have been no problems that I'm aware of.
Speaking as someone who had been flying rc airplanes and helis for the past 25 years I have to sort of respectfully disagree. No doubt many of these instances were due to pure negligence, but they aren't hard to get to explode into a fiery disaster. This coming from a guy who almost burnt his house down despite taking precautions.
New with that said, it was negligence on my part. To some extent anyway. I had a pack in one of my electric helis and threw it on charge after a last minute decision to head to the field in the morning.
I placed it in the centre of the pool table knowing worst case scenario it would burn the felt (worsted wool). The pack had apparently self discharged below 9v (3v per cell) since I had used it last and my negligence was not checking it first.
To further add to the incident, the temperature prob had come slightly unplugged from the charger and I being extremely tired didn't notice it.
The result was walking up in the middle of the night to the smile alarm. When I got out to the billiard room I saw the battery generating a huge plasma fire. Streamers of plasma and fire were shooting everywhere, and to make matters worse, my thoughts of being safe in the middle of a 9 foot pool table were proven unfounded as chunks of molton metal were being shot in all directions, clear across the room melting holes in the carpet.
Needless to say, I don't for a moment discount just how dangerous anything that stores that much energy in such a small package can truly be.
You do know that "genuine" and "ali express" are largely mutually exclusive. Tread carefully with those batteries.
For the record: No, you cannot purchase genuine AW batteries from ali express, especially in sizes that AW doesn't even handle. This is the single biggest source of fake AW's being sold on eBay.
Speaking as someone who had been flying rc airplanes and helis for the past 25 years I have to sort of respectfully disagree. No doubt many of these instances were due to pure negligence, but they aren't hard to get to explode into a fiery disaster. This coming from a guy who almost burnt his house down despite taking precautions.
New with that said, it was negligence on my part. To some extent anyway. I had a pack in one of my electric helis and threw it on charge after a last minute decision to head to the field in the morning.
I placed it in the centre of the pool table knowing worst case scenario it would burn the felt (worsted wool). The pack had apparently self discharged below 9v (3v per cell) since I had used it last and my negligence was not checking it first.
To further add to the incident, the temperature prob had come slightly unplugged from the charger and I being extremely tired didn't notice it.
The result was walking up in the middle of the night to the smile alarm. When I got out to the billiard room I saw the battery generating a huge plasma fire. Streamers of plasma and fire were shooting everywhere, and to make matters worse, my thoughts of being safe in the middle of a 9 foot pool table were proven unfounded as chunks of molton metal were being shot in all directions, clear across the room melting holes in the carpet.
Needless to say, I don't for a moment discount just how dangerous anything that stores that much energy in such a small package can truly be.
We should trade stories about the good old days of RC sometime
. I started flying RC planes when I was 16, so 41 years ago. I just missed the escapement driven radios, getting into it with a three channel trainer and a small OS ring engine that self destructed at the first hint of a lean run, LOL. We used to call them the 'Oh Sorry' engines.After leaving RC for a while and then getting back into it with fast piston driven sport planes, I eventually got into more relaxed electric planes. I've seen a couple of battery packs vent with a lot of heat and smoke in planes but I've never seen flame.
Your experience doesn't surprise me too much. I have a lot of respect for the potential in these little things. I believe all Li-ion are most vulnerable and volatile during charging (or puncture) and I believe having them go under voltage is really bad for Li-poly. They are more volatile when they vent than hybrid or IMR Li-ion, but risk assessment involves both severity and the likelihood the event will happen and I think the one you experienced is rare. I do consider Li-po reasonably safe but if I were going to build a mod using one I would probably do some testing first to reassure myself I knew what I was doing.
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As somebody who uses lipos for years, i think your kind of missing the point as of why box mods don't use them. Main reason is that when they are swollen they should not be used anymore are they are not safe (much higher predisposition to explode, burn out etc etc)
Swollen Lipo:
(as a side-note, if you search for "blown lipo", you gonna see some nasty things...)
The problem per se is not that are swollen, but more of that they get swollen for all reasons. Like mentioned before here, these batteries get blown from undervoltage, overvoltage and incorrect storage voltage as well as incorrect handling like deforming it in any way. So, if you charge a battery and put it in a drawer, and take a look at it 3 to 6 months later, its gonna be swollen.
On top of all of this, if you see what happens to these batteries when they blow up due o accidental shortcut, or a hole, you wouldn't want to carry them around with you as you carry li-ions (in your pants, bag etc)
So basically it's a safety/convenience thing.
Swollen Lipo:
(as a side-note, if you search for "blown lipo", you gonna see some nasty things...)
The problem per se is not that are swollen, but more of that they get swollen for all reasons. Like mentioned before here, these batteries get blown from undervoltage, overvoltage and incorrect storage voltage as well as incorrect handling like deforming it in any way. So, if you charge a battery and put it in a drawer, and take a look at it 3 to 6 months later, its gonna be swollen.
On top of all of this, if you see what happens to these batteries when they blow up due o accidental shortcut, or a hole, you wouldn't want to carry them around with you as you carry li-ions (in your pants, bag etc)
So basically it's a safety/convenience thing.
We should trade stories about the good old days of RC sometime
After leaving RC for a while and then getting back into it with fast piston driven sport planes, I eventually got into more relaxed electric planes. I've seen a couple of battery packs vent with a lot of heat and smoke in planes but I've never seen flame.
Your experience doesn't surprise me too much. I have a lot of respect for the potential in these little things. I believe all Li-ion are most vulnerable and volatile during charging (or puncture) and I believe having them go under voltage is really bad for Li-poly. They are more volatile when they vent than hybrid or IMR Li-ion, but risk assessment involves both severity and the likelihood the event will happen and I think the one you experienced is rare. I do consider Li-po reasonably safe but if I were going to build a mod using one I would probably do some testing first to reassure myself I knew what I was doing.
Nice... I "technically" started back in the early 80's with some control-line stuff and the good 'ol Cox .049s. I moved into RC just shortly before the change from AM to FM radios. I had barely walked out of the store with the thing before they announced they were phasing them out and after a couple years would require all radios to be FM. I was young, but this wasn't "mommy and daddy's" money... I busted my .... all summer long to buy that stuff...
Anyway, eventually got into aerobatics and pattern planes. I still think my Ultra Sport 40 was one of my all time favorite planes to fly, only seconded by a P-51 I had built which was my first 4-stroker. Not long after I made the step into heli's and the planes kinda took a back seat. The Raptor series was always my favorite. I've got a 90 size Raptor that I still break out once in a while even with my very limited time these days. It's got everything imaginable on that puppy. CF blades, GY701, 9254 in the tail and 9353's everywhere else, full metal head, and of course the O.S. 105HZ. It's my happy engine... - Status
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