Still new to posting and cant go in member area yet, but have a question or wondered if anyone has run up against this. life insurance. the rates for smokers are ridiculous. you have to be off cigs a year to be considered a non-smoker and get the low rates. Any ex smokers, current vapers, try and go for the non-smoker rate and did it work? If it didn't, do we have a lobby, org., group that anyone may know of that I might help "fight the good fight" so to speak.
Life Insurance
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Curious how they would know any different, if you just told them you were smoke free for over a year? If you are currently getting your nic fix via vaping, can they actually tell how long it's been since you've smoked?
I had to renew since our company was bought out. I listed as a non-smoker. I told the ins guy that I vaped. He couldn't find anything in the rules pertaining to it so he listed me as a non-smoker. Our company pays for our life insurance so I guess with the employees, it doesn't matter.
That's a great question. I'd love to know the answer.
I asked at work and it seems in most cases it all comes down to the cotinine test, so it would seem a nicotine vaping vaper would fail.
Also, there is no "officially" accepted evidence that vaping is a safer alternative to smoking, so that could become an issue...
My employer is actually extremely anti-smoking, and they are testing cotinine now for employment, btw...
I asked at work and it seems in most cases it all comes down to the cotinine test, so it would seem a nicotine vaping vaper would fail.
Also, there is no "officially" accepted evidence that vaping is a safer alternative to smoking, so that could become an issue...
My employer is actually extremely anti-smoking, and they are testing cotinine now for employment, btw...
I used to be in that racket years ago. Although I can't speak to every L.I. company, I can tell you that they are all ultra-conservative when it comes to risks and won't give a vaper a NS rate unless you're looking for a massive policy that would justify the costs involved in deviating from their standard underwriting procedures. Until there is enough data to prove a reduced mortality of vapers vs. smokers, they will continue to rate them the same. In 30 years or so, assuming someone does the epidemiological studies, there may be enough data to prove to their satisfaction that they incur a lesser risk by insuring the life of a vaper. Until then, don't hold your breath. They won't change rates on intuition, anecdotal information or medical consensus. Numbers, actuaries and bean counters rule that industry.
If there is one company that will possibly, just maybe, break the mold, it is a company, sold by independent agents, called Jackson National L.I. Co.. They're super solid financially and I used to use them for hard to place risks. Their underwriters would take a lot of accounts on a case-by-case basis instead of working off hard and fast rules.
The problem is, there might be a way to distinguish between a smoker and a vaper. But it is unlikely to be cheap and convenient enough for their cookie-cutter underwriting. So, they'd rather not fool with it and there is no other cheap way besides nic. level to prove to them you don't smoke, even if they cared. And they don't.
If there is one company that will possibly, just maybe, break the mold, it is a company, sold by independent agents, called Jackson National L.I. Co.. They're super solid financially and I used to use them for hard to place risks. Their underwriters would take a lot of accounts on a case-by-case basis instead of working off hard and fast rules.
The problem is, there might be a way to distinguish between a smoker and a vaper. But it is unlikely to be cheap and convenient enough for their cookie-cutter underwriting. So, they'd rather not fool with it and there is no other cheap way besides nic. level to prove to them you don't smoke, even if they cared. And they don't.
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Yes it matters. When you die, they will review your case and try to find any reason they can to deny payment. They will test your blood or tissues, claim material misrepresentation and deny your beneficiaries' claim.
My advice to you is to make sure you do not leave a corpse. If you do, and there's enough left of you to test, they will do it. If you die of any illness, they will most likely deny the claim.
They have to do this because, for all they know, you could start smoking the day after you became covered.
Edit: Depending on your state, they might pay a benefit amount reflecting how much coverage the premium paid would have bought at smokers' rates.
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They don't care how long it's been since you've smoked if you have nic in your body. They will assume you smoke. If you tell them you use nicotine gum, you would have had to use it too long and they still won't cover you. When they say smoke free, they mean nic free.
I know insurance people aren't evil (well I assume most aren't), but reading your posts sailorman it makes it sound like they keep sith lords as kittens while they plot to destroy the world 
I know insurance people aren't evil (well I assume most aren't), but reading your posts sailorman it makes it sound like they keep sith lords as kittens while they plot to destroy the world
Never said they were evil. I was one. But it's a numbers game. They're heartless. Life insurance isn't like your car insurance or even health insurance. They don't have claims adjusters to make decisions. If they didn't need sales and PR people, the whole industry could be run by computers. Ever read an actuarial table. There's no room for common sense there. There's no room for anything. They don't pay off a policy out of the goodness of their hearts. They don't pay a policy without doing their due-diligence. They have to. Their stockholders are their ultimate rulers, not their policyholders.
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They can't really use cotinine as a base to decide if someone is a smoker surely? Snus users shows very similar levels of cotinine to smokers and I can't believe snus users mark themselves down on the forms as smokers?
Just remembered that at least some insurance companies don't even use the term "smoker" or "smoking" in their contracts. The salespeople still say it and it's in sales literature because it's a commonly understood phrase. But if it is in their contract, it will be accompanied by a footnote definition clarifying that smoking means any tobacco use.
The insurance lingo is "NTU" or "Non Tobacco User". That encompasses smoking, chewing, snuff or anything considered a tobacco product, including e-cigs and, presumably, even patches, gum and lozenges.
The insurance lingo is "NTU" or "Non Tobacco User". That encompasses smoking, chewing, snuff or anything considered a tobacco product, including e-cigs and, presumably, even patches, gum and lozenges.
Yep, The applications should ask if you're a tobacco user. Insurance agents sometimes try to simplify it and make a sale by asking if you smoke. I don't know Canadian law, but in the U.S., if a Snus user doesn't admit to being a tobacco user, he likely risks not being covered if they test him, or having his coverage reduced on his death. OTOH, if he quits before he dies, he's in luck.
Unlike most insurance, most run-of-the-mill life insurance policies are not very well underwritten when they're written. The REAL underwriting happens in the event of an impending payout. This saves a ton of money for the ins. company because most life insurance policies are dropped within a short period of time. So, if the insured lied, it doesn't really matter until he dies.
My application says "electronic cigarette user" on it. I don't pay the premium, the company does plus there are smokers who work there also. About a month ago, I ask if I was covered and explained to HR about my usage. He said I was covered and it was being paid. It shows the premium on my paycheck stub...it's weird how they do it...I get charged but then refunded...something to do with how they keep record of it.
I haven't filled out life insurance since I quit, but I am sure it actually said "how many packs a day". In future though I'll make sure to check if it mentions nic use anywhere and get a written letter from the company if they save e-cigs are exempt.
All these strange grey areas still :/
I called a friend who just got a policy after the birth of his first. He says the question is "do you use tobacco products?" I would be inclined to answer that no. However, you are so right when you say they will look for a way to deny, so I am going to give New York Life a call tomorrow and see if they will give a clear cut answer to vaping in the form of a letter on their paper and tuck it away with the policy. I'll get back to y'all with the answer I get.
Well, if that's the case I'm curious if anyone know how long it takes for Nic to leave your body? If I was to go get blood work done, how many days ahead of time would I need to stop vaping?
My husband and I own a real estate and insurance agency. My husband has been doing some underwriting research with different companies on the e-cigarette use versus smoking, and just told me today that he can quote me as a NON-SMOKER since I quit smoking and now just vape. This is great news! The company we're going to use is Prudential.
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