Looking into DIY Options

[ranjen617]

I currently buy juice. I'm just tired of buying and would like to start making my own at this point.

At times I want more flavor and at times I'd rather not. So this is probably my best bet. This is much better than buying this or that flavor just to sit around.

I have a thing for custards, puddings, cake batter, strawberry, vanilla, cereal like C Crunch, either cinnamon or pumpkin kinda spice, graham cracker, apple pie, I like a few peach juices but there is where I can't taste anything, also wouldn't mind a good candy cane flavor that wouldn't make me choke. Coffee is ok but not a must.

I started out looking at a few sites and rather too much info all at once. Information overload on all the different flavors and I just gave up and gave in to buying more premade juice. Didn't realize so many kinds of vanilla, strawberry, custards, etc there could be.

If anyone has a taste like mine and can help me with a good vendor plus some sample of what flavors to start with, I'd truly appreciate it. I just got frustrated and simply lost in the list of everything. Plus I have no clue of what juice needs the nic, PG or VG.

I currently blend a little more VG in my 70/30 12mg or 6mg (I don't vape much of 6) since I get the itchies at times and need a less PG. So I'm a little savvy in that area. I'll be starting from scratch. I do have empty bottles on hand from where I've bought some, so those really are not needed in the kit.

Just needing a little direction here since there's many flavors of each and have no clue of which base juice to run on.

Thank you in advance!

 

[ArminF]

Not sure if you get them in the US. I use the following flavors:
TPA (The perfumers apprentice) -> Cupcake, Custard, Caramel, Yellow Cake, Smoothener, Cereal, banana nut bread (killer for me), coconut
Capella -> Cupcake, Custard, Caramel, Yellow Cake, Cereal
Twisted Flavor -> Vanilla Custard, Vanilla Gorilla (the Vanilla custard is for the ending of you taste. it is soo smooth then that you think you just drunk it)

Mix them with 20% 50VG/VG MTL and 10% 70VG30PG for Direct Lung
Steep at minimum a week. Better 3 to 4.

Cinamon is pretty hard. Start maybe with 1%.
Strawberry and Cherry are hard to find flavours which do taste "real".

Here are some DIY recipes -> DIY Eliquid Recipes: All the Flavors
try to arrange your recipes/tests. Flavours like fruits, coffe come usually at the beginning of the taste while some like creams, pudding come at the end and make the liquid round in taste. Hope this explains it a bit.

Taste (for me) like --> Start Blackberry Middle Caramel End Vanilla cream.
For MTL don't go to complex while for DL you can mix up to 10 flavours into one recipe.

About base.. Just grap the one you can get maybe not a liter and try them with a fingertip. If they taste natural/clean tasteless you can use them. Some are sweet. Some nicotine have a taste of nut. At least i found it.

I get my VG/PG from a horse equipment seller. Yes.. sounds weird but VG/PG is not just found in the vaping industry. You can also check your pharmacy but usually more expensive. I do pay for 5 Liter VG around 20USD from the horse guy. Make sure you get vegetable VG. 99.5% usually. Some have water in them. Would not propose this.

 

[ArminF]

PS: i found a shop in Germany selling "probes" of all offered flavours in 2 ML packs. Which is great for testing

 

[SupplyDaddy]

WizardLabs is a good place to start for your flavorings. The sample sizes are 8ml for $1.49(ish). Many flavors can be used just on their own. Try many, find the brand you like and buy the bigger sizes.

Essential Depot for both PG and VG with great pricing in the 4 gallon realm.

As far as nicotine, there are many places that sell it. I generally use MyFreedomSmokes since they have pretty good pricing.

 

[raqball]

You can buy pre mixed pg/vg/nic base from several places. Once you have that all you need is whatever flavorings the recipe calls for.

I get 70/30 base in 3mg nic form from ecigexpress. It's like $17 for a liter if you use ECFFORUM discount code for 10% off.... Been buying from them for years and they always ship fast, never an issue..

I vape the base as it comes and do not flavor it but adding flavor is easy, peasy.. Most recipes will tell you exactly how much of each to add....

Good luck!

 

[Pokeroo]

I do pay for 5 Liter VG around 20USD from the horse guy.

No e-liquid suggestions from me unfortunately -- but this line from @ArminF (great post btw) is awesome. Have these words ever been put into a sentence in this order before? I can't stop reading it

 

[ranjen617]

@SupplyDaddy @raqball
Thank you for the suggestions. I'm not sure what I need to order on the nic. Do I run with the PG or VG blend on that? Or would it be easier starting out to just run a premix then just blend the flavors? I saw where the juice came either way and I'm not sure what the common is.

On the flavors. So not sure of which one to buy. The recipes can be daunting to look at unless they have many reviews. I figure to run a main flavor ie. Strawberry and then blend in a custard or whatever base. That's my thinking, but yet I'm a newb on this. There's so many strawberry flavors like there is custards etc. I guess seeing like 100 options in a drop down menu sent my brain into an overload all at once.

I'll look into the places both of you geared me into. Maybe my taste will have to change while I'm attempting to blend. Lol. I just hope I'm not the only one that was this confused to start off. Kinda embarrassing. ...

 

[ranjen617]

No e-liquid suggestions from me unfortunately -- but this line from @ArminF (great post btw) is awesome. Have these words ever been put into a sentence in this order before? I can't stop reading it

That is a good one! I bought a bottle of VG to dilute mine down online but then found this at a store. Same kind and all. I was like, how can I be so dumb! So now I know it's everywhere!

 

[IDJoel]

Hi, @ranjen617!

I understand how a person can get overwhelmed trying to learn about DIY. There is indeed lots of information, and lots of ways different folks can (and do) go about it.

First off; any DIY does require a bit of patience, and commitment, to research, try, and try some more. Understanding, and accepting, that not everything is going to taste ideal to your own personal taste buds, is also essential.

In this regard, it is similar to buying new (to you) commercial e-liquids. Even with reviews, and recommendations, no one can say with any certainty, whether a given e-liquid, recipe, or even specific ingredient, is going to be a winner for your own palate. Trial, failure, and success, are all routine, when DIYing.

If that is acceptable risk, and you don't routinely get frustrated and give up; then you are a good candidate for DIY. If that sounds like more than you want to commit to; then I would gently suggest you stick to buying commercially prepared e-liquids.

If DIYing still interests you; keep reading.

There are two basic ways (speaking in the most general of terms) to DIY.

One is like cooking from scratch. You purchase all the individual ingredients (nicotine, pg, vg, and miscellaneous flavor concentrates). Then, combine the ingredients in various combinations, to get a unique result. This method offers the greatest versatility (due to the near limitless flavor manufacturers). But, also has the steepest learning curve (again; because of so many choices... and not all of them will be pleasing to you personally).

The other basic, and more recent innovation, is using complex combined flavor concentrates, that have already combined several separate flavors for you. Think of something similar to buying prepared spaghetti sauce, verses making your own from scratch. This method, removes much of the decision making responsibility, from you. And, does it for you. Like starting from scratch, there is still no guarantee that you will like it. But, it does help to provide a smaller, more manageable, number of choices... that many find appealing.

These complex concentrates go by several different names: one shots, flavor blends, recipe packs, flavor base, etc. Sometimes, they have no special identifier, so it takes a little sluthing to discover.

The benefit of these per-blended/combined flavor concentrates is: all you are responsible for, is finding out what concentration (strength) tastes best to you personally (most commonly expressed as a percentage)(vs. trying to discover the most appropriate percentages of all the individual flavor concentrates). You will simply need to add your PG, VG, and nicotine; and you are off to the races.

Speaking of PG, VG, and nic; these too can be purchased pre-combined for you. These are most commonly referred to as (unflavored) bases. Again, using these premixed bases; you will gain in convenience, and simplifying the DIY process.

But, using these bases, you will have to be willing to sacrifice a bit of,control, and precision. Because the amount of flavor concentrate is going to vary (from one concentrate to another; and your own given preferences at any given time); using a premade base will provide varying PG/VG ratios, and nicotine levels.

If you don't mind your nicotine amount changing a couple of milligrams per milliliter. And, your PG/VG ratio shifting 5(ish)%, one way or the other. Then, these unflavored bases may be a good choice for you. If you want or need, a specific nic level, or PG/VG ratio; then sticking with separate ingredients may be the better choice.

Okay... that's enough to think about, to start. Llet us know, what sounds like it is most appealing/best fit, for you. Then we can start offering some more specific vendors, that offer the products, that are better suited to what you want to try.

 

[IDJoel]

Thank you for the suggestions. I'm not sure what I need to order on the nic. Do I run with the PG or VG blend on that? Or would it be easier starting out to just run a premix then just blend the flavors? I saw where the juice came either way and I'm not sure what the common is.

Given that many (most?) flavor concentrates are PG based, and you seem to have a PG sensitivity, I would suggest getting your nic in a VG base. VG is thicker than PG, and can be a bit more of a pain to work with (especially measuring with a syringe). But, VG based nic will aid you in staying above that 80% VG threshold you desire. Especially if you are going to start with a lower nicotine concentration.

On the flavors. So not sure of which one to buy. The recipes can be daunting to look at unless they have many reviews.

Here is where the "crapshoot" begins. Until you have an idea of what concentrates taste best, to your unique taste buds... is is all going to be guesswork to begin with. As youtry different concentrates, and gain an understanding of what you like and dislike, then you will be able to better choose what might have a greater chance of success.

For now; I would suggest trying to stick the recipes that have the greatest number of positive comments (esp. detailed comments). This tells you what the community at large likes. It is still no guarantee that you will like it. But, it is putting the odds to your best advantage.

Maybe my taste will have to change while I'm attempting to blend. Lol. I just hope I'm not the only one that was this confused to start off. Kinda embarrassing. ...

Don't be embarrassed in the least! Because taste is so personal, and different for every one of us; we all begin the same way. Trial and error is the only way to learn what works best for you. It is only folks, who either don't understand this, or refuse to accept it; that tend to get frustrated with DIY, and give up.

I have been DIYing for more than 3 years now; and I am still learning what works (and doesn't) for me!
I learn more from my flops than I do from my successes. It is all part of the journey! Along the way, I have also found some real gems, and that is the fuel that keeps me going.

 

[uthinkofsomething]

I started diy in september, and have not and will not ever buy commercial liquid again. My method of learning has been to find recipes for flavors I loved as commercial juice, then use the leftovers to experiment with.
Going in I knew hands down I wanted to make a hazelnut latte, mangosteen cream, vanilla custard, and a cherry strawberry chocolate mix (Aphrodite's Affair...). I found solid recipes for these and a banana cream pie, made em up, and they were great. I also used leftover flavorings to experiment with, came up with a number of nice flavors.
A few people here advised "look at a lot of recipes" or "as many as you can", and that helped. Just seeing different percentages, brands, and combinations started really getting me used to it all.
As IDJoel said earlier, one shot flavors that are a mix of flavors you can add to nic base is a very easy route to start with, they do the hard work of mixing the flavors at the right percentages in relation to each other, but you control how strong it is when you add it to your nic base.
That being said, I have not used one shots and enjoy working with more individual flavors. I was always a flavor junkie, food aficionado, experimenter...
Some good places to order flavorings and all are Bull City, Wizard Labs, and Nicotine River. There are others.
A juice calculator is very handy, I use (I can't link it here, search google) ELR calculator. You fill in the blanks and it tells you how many grams or milliliters of everything you need for flavorings, nicotine, vg pg you name it.
There seem to be three main ways of measuring everything: by volume, by weight, and by drops. Volume uses syringes measuring milliliters. Weight uses a scale and grams. Drops is when you use, say, in a 30ml bottle 20 drops of this flavoring, 15 of that, etc. Drops... Not accurate, that's all I'll say. Volume measuring to me is a pain in the but, you need a different syringe for every flavoring, and you are still eyeballing what is there. Measuring by weight is the most accurate and repeatable, and has less cleanup. I do weight, but there are many who measure by volume and do just fine.
Lastly, do it. Bite the bullet and start making e-liquid. You will be happier with you juice, and it will be like a third of the cost you are spending now, if not quite a bit less.

 

[ArminF]

No e-liquid suggestions from me unfortunately -- but this line from @ArminF (great post btw) is awesome. Have these words ever been put into a sentence in this order before? I can't stop reading it

Forgive my German English. I am stuck between Sauerkraut and Weissbier.

 

[Cobra Kai]

Hi! Lots of good info already, I'll just add my 2 cents with 50lbs: Assuming your starting with nothing but empty bottles, you'll need 6 things to start mixing by weight (more accurate & repeatable than mixing by volume, and you need less stuff)

1) A scale: https://www.amazon.com/American-Wei...=1543556417&sr=8-3&keywords=501+kitchen+scale

Shop around but just make sure it measures to .01 grams and can handle a 500 gram minimum load (if/when you choose to mix a lot at once).

2) PG: https://www.amazon.com/Propylene-Gl...&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=propelyne+glycol&psc=1
(A quart is a lot & will last you a long time)

3) VG: https://www.amazon.com/Glycerin-Veg...&keywords=essential+depot+vegetable+glycerine
(A quart will last awhile - I buy it by the gallon)

4) A 3ml 14ga syringe (for the nicotine - just guessing on the needle gauge but you'll want it wide-bore & long, you can probably find one wherever you buy your flavorings or nic from).

5) An eliquid calculator (google will help, most calculators can't factor in combined PG/VG bases, which makes it a good idea to buy them seperately).

6) Nicotine: Choose your strength, I prefer 100mg/ml which is a very strong concentration and potentially dangerous; keep it away from the kids, pets, and most importantly, lawyers:
https://www.nudenicotine.com/product/100mg-nicotine-base/
100mg PurNic E-Liquid Nicotine*
100mg Unflavored Nicotine Base
Choosing a higher strength means you will need much less of it per batch you make, for example 30ml's of 12mg strength will require 3.73ml of 100mg/ml nic base, or 1.86ml for 6mg strength. When choosing whether to buy it in VG or PG, the important thing to know is that it'll be cold from storing it in the freezer & viscous
(= a pain to use with the syringe) for this reason I recommend PG, but if you have a sensitivity to it just keep this in mind if you choose VG.

Ok... getting these 6 things will leave you a solid foundation for the fun part... finding recipes & buying flavors. That requires some exploring & this is already long-winded, so I'll just suggest buying from
Bull City Flavors - Best Prices on Flavoring
Their flavors come in needle-tip bottles that you can use to measure directly into the bottle on the scale, thus eliminating the need to buy more syringes/pipettes.

 

[ArminF]

If you go with the weight option.


VG 1.261
PG 1.036
Gramm per 1 ML

flavors are mostly PG.

 

[ranjen617]

You're right on point! That's me. I know what I like and just need to blend it. I guess cloning what I've been vaping per se. I think I'll try the blends plus a few flavors since the base seems to be about along the lines of some dessert but the high notes I like, not too much but a hint, would fall into different fruits. Like a Strawberry or apple spice with a cake or pudding as the base note. If that makes sense.
I'll buy the blends then a few top flavors and maybe one or two that would pair up to make a juice or two.
Saving this whole thread now since I know I'll have to read and read again!
Wow, thank you!
Glad your mixing is helping you out as well. I'm just tired of a few juices that come in, steep, then not be the same as the last bottle. I could add here or there if need be!

 

[ranjen617]

@IDJoel
You're making so much sense in your post. I don't give up quick, well maybe the other night since I was dumbfounded with several of the same flavor having many choices. But in all, I think I can narrow down to just a few or take a stab at one or the other. I'm sure with everyone here it's been a trial and error.
Yes, huge reason of why I want to mix my own is the PG issues. Thank you for telling me about going with the VG for nic. I'm a good solid 12mg for the most part. Could go higher. I try to stay low at night so I can get to sleep, that's about 6mg buy do find myself vaping a 12mg if need be. I was a heavy smoker before and I'm sure if I mix a little too much I'll just slow my vape. I'm good with a mishap here and there.
Blending like you said is very much like cooking and I do have patience in learning and really would like to try. Some flavors I crave more and some I just rather tone down. I'm finding my taste goes up and down from time to time. One week I'll dislike a fruit and want more of a spice then the next week back to fruit or plain custard or batter taste. But in saying that, I'm pretty stuck on the flavors I crave.

I was really hesitant to ask this since I've been around vaping for a bit. I knew I'd just feel shy or like I said embarrassed. Thank you for reassuring me that everyone has been here one time before. I guess the not knowing and just having to ask was the biggest fear. If I fail at the dyi juice I'll try again. Then again. ...Just like cooking, we've all had a recipe to flop. You learn from those mistakes and move forward!
I'm going to make sure I refer back here many times over while starting this. I'll buy a kit come December and just go ahead and try!
Thank you so much for your help!

 

[ranjen617]

Thank you so much! Awesome. I have scales here in my kitchen. Should be simple enough. That will really help me!

 

[ranjen617]

@Cobra Kai
That's a great reply. Yes, I'll have to see what my scales will and won't do at those levels. Good thing is you gave a link.

The nic base really made sense to buy in volume at a higher mg and just use less. Kudos on that one. I'd done the opposite not knowing.

In relation to my PG issue I'll have to go more on the VG end of things but that's fine. I get the itchies, not terrible but enough to make me feel like my skin wants to crawl. I figured out my issue from seeing my doctor on a routine visit. He said it was probably that. I unfortunately fell off the wagon thinking I was done vaping forever. Then I got back on the wagon again after I was told I could lessen the PG to my liking and should be able to vape without issue. True enough, I'm here and to stay. Need my health!

Thank you for letting me know the things to buy and have on hand. Wasn't even sure about the syringes and was about to call my Dad and ask about his diabetes syringes. Yeah, I already know, ask a diabetic and they'll tell you where to find them. Lol.

I should be ok on bottles since I've bought some thinking I'd need them while out vs at home. Have about 20 of assorted sizes. That's way plenty for me. The scales, well I'll check those out in the day. Not even sure.

Thank you for your help!

 

[ranjen617]

I didn't tag a few replies back correctly. I hope you can understand who is who.

I thank each of you for taking out the time to help me. I'm blessed!

It seems as though with my PG issues that this is the way to go plus tired of my juices tasting good on one purchase and needing this or that on the next. Seems like this is certainly the way to go both cost effectiveness and for my taste.

I'll place an order more than likely in the next week (paycheck, lol), then I'll start to blend from there. I have enough juice to get me by until my own steeps. I'm ok there. Thank goodness!

Thank you all once again! Awesome replies that truly helped me!

 

[Cobra Kai]

Always happy to assimilate a new mixer into the collective. When you come up with something good please share! Then we can add your informational & creative distinctiveness to our own...