Los Angeles City ordinance amendment proposal

[aarik]

Wondering if anyone has seen this:

DRAFT ORDINANCE AMENDING ARTICLES 6.9 AND 7 OF THE LOS ANGELES
MUNICIPAL CODE TO ADD PRODUCTS CONTAINING BIOLOGICALLY ACTIVE
AMOUNTS OF NICOTINE TO THE DEFINITION OF tobacco PRODUCTS AND TO
MAKE OTHER CHANGES TO THE tobacco RETAILERS PERMIT AND TO THE
SELF-SERVICE DISPLAY OF tobacco PRODUCTS REGULATIONS



http://clkrep.lacity.org/onlinedocs/2013/13-1204_RPT_ATTY_10-23-13.pdf


and this one

http://clkrep.lacity.org/onlinedocs/2013/13-1204_pc_2_10-23-13.pdf

 

[soba1]

Well I remember when I attended the meeting they said that they wanted to put the same laws ecigs that were on traditional cigarettes.
That looks to be the case.
They are not banning ecigs just applying the laws for the sale of traditional cigarettes
to ecigs.
Maybe someone better at reading legalese can confirm or deny

 

[rhm3769]

To me it looks like just applying similar sales restrictions of tobacco products to our liquids....

What exactly is meant by biologically active amounts of nicotine? I might be reading too much into it, but it seems to be lumping anything with nicotine other than FDA approved quitting aids with the intention to be consumed for the nicotine contained to be tobacco products....

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

To me it looks like just applying similar sales restrictions of tobacco products to our liquids....

What exactly is meant by biologically active amounts of nicotine? I might be reading too much into it, but it seems to be lumping anything with nicotine other than FDA approved quitting aids with the intention to be consumed for the nicotine contained to be tobacco products....

Reading that I would think they're trying to keep anyone from banning the whole nightshade family.

ETA: Or needing a tobacco retailers permit to sell vegetables.

 

[DC2]

To me it looks like just applying similar sales restrictions of tobacco products to our liquids....

What exactly is meant by biologically active amounts of nicotine? I might be reading too much into it, but it seems to be lumping anything with nicotine other than FDA approved quitting aids with the intention to be consumed for the nicotine contained to be tobacco products....

Biologically active?

Where in the hell are they going to get a definition of that?
Is the nicotine in a tomato "biologically active" or not?

What kind of absurdity is this?

 

[Uma]

Biological activity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Dosage dependent, whether beneficial or adverse. Crazy.

 

[BernieVideo]

Ok.

How do we fight this?

When are they voting on this?
Who do we bombard with emails and tweets?

 

[JulesXsmokr]

Once it starts - it'll never end, laws get revised and get even tougher, they want their starting point.
. No Laws are good laws for safe, harmless, and especially a product which can save a potential 20% of all Americans lives due to cigarette illnesses...

 

[AgentAnia]

Biologically active?

Where in the hell are they going to get a definition of that?
Is the nicotine in a tomato "biologically active" or not?

What kind of absurdity is this?

The simplest, broadest definition of "biological activity" is "any activity of a substance that is demonstrable in living organisms." There is the narrower definition which concerns the activity of a drug on the human body.

I suspect this is an example of what happens when lawyers and legislators write bills dealing with scientific and medical issues. Poorly written, open to differing interpretations, and probably open to lawsuits as well. (I know what they intend, but that's not necessarily how the bill actually says...)

 

[DC2]

The simplest, broadest definition of "biological activity" is "any activity of a substance that is demonstrable in living organisms." There is the narrower definition which concerns the activity of a drug on the human body.

What follows is not directed at you, as I am just using your post to jump into an expanded version of this discussion...

Has anyone confirmed the amount of nicotine that causes "demonstrable activity" in living organisms?
I sure haven't seen it.

So just throwing those words out there seems disingenuous at the very least.
Does anyone know how much Vitamin C causes "demonstrable activity" in living organisms?

Anyway, as someone who appreciates the "demonstrable activity" of nicotine, I want to make sure I'm getting the full benefits.
I like the fact that it improves memory, concentration, and attention.

I guess that is why the World Anti-Doping Agency is considering putting nicotine on their list of banned performance-enhancing substances...
Nicotine could be put on list of banned substances - Olympics - ESPN

I guess my point is that I want to know how much nicotine I should intake to get "demonstrable activity" from it.
I don't want to shortchange myself in this effort.

I suspect this is an example of what happens when lawyers and legislators write bills dealing with scientific and medical issues. Poorly written, open to differing interpretations, and probably open to lawsuits as well. (I know what they intend, but that's not necessarily how the bill actually says...)

It seems to be the "demonstrable activity" is a huge red herring.

I wonder how much "demonstrable activity" the pepperoni on my pizza has on my cholesterol readings.

Can I have four pepperoni pieces?
Can I have eight?

 

[Jay-dub]

I'm making one prediction because there are a lot of threads about regulations on so many levels: VAPING RIGHTS WILL HAVE TO EVENTUALLY BE FOUGHT FOR IN THE SUPREME COURT. Sad...

 

[DC2]

I'm making one prediction because there are a lot of threads about regulations on so many levels: VAPING RIGHTS WILL HAVE TO EVENTUALLY BE FOUGHT FOR IN THE SUPREME COURT. Sad...

You may very well be right.

And when "we" fought the FDA last time, we pushed them within an inch of the Supreme Court.
That had to do with an outright ban effort a few years ago, and we won.

They gave up before the final step, because they knew they had no legs to stand on.

And it can easily be argued that we won by fighting.
In fact, it's hard to imagine how we would have won any other way.

 

[AgentAnia]

....Has anyone confirmed the amount of nicotine that causes "demonstrable activity" in living organisms?
I sure haven't seen it.

....Anyway, as someone who appreciates the "demonstrable activity" of nicotine, I want to make sure I'm getting the full benefits.
I like the fact that it improves memory, concentration, and attention.

....I guess my point is that I want to know how much nicotine I should intake to get "demonstrable activity" from it.
I don't want to shortchange myself in this effort.

I surely do like your attitude!!

 

[Grammie]

If need be we'll fight again, and again and again!

 

[soba1]

To me it looks like just applying similar sales restrictions of tobacco products to our liquids....

What exactly is meant by biologically active amounts of nicotine? I might be reading too much into it, but it seems to be lumping anything with nicotine other than FDA approved quitting aids with the intention to be consumed for the nicotine contained to be tobacco products....

Thats exactly what it is. LA doesnt want to kill another potential cash cow.
If anyone had sense they would start a major juice mfg faciltiy in downtown LA lol.

 

[Fiamma]

That ordinance was passed by committee and is waiting for considration from the full City Council. I have not yet seen a date for this to be presented and considered. Looks like they want to make all e cig sellers buy tobacco licenses, at the very least.

 

[soba1]

That ordinance was passed by committee and is waiting for considration from the full City Council. I have not yet seen a date for this to be presented and considered. Looks like they want to make all e cig sellers buy tobacco licenses, at the very least.

Thats a good thing imho, it generates revenue for the city.
Imho its not villifying pv's or the juice, and the Ca. on line vendors that
I have done business do charge tax.....

 

[SteampunkPirate]

I'm making one prediction because there are a lot of threads about regulations on so many levels: VAPING RIGHTS WILL HAVE TO EVENTUALLY BE FOUGHT FOR IN THE SUPREME COURT. Sad...

This is why it's very important to always point out that e-products can be used with non-nicotine juice or wicks that **could** be argued in court to cause problems, e.g., fiberglass. You can't argue this "benign" use point with real cigarettes. Coming from a family of attorneys and e-vaping, this is pointed out to me all the time. When the argument goes to higher courts, and it will, these seemingly small points will sway the decisions, along with the many lives e-cigs are saving.

Chance