Low Resistance VS High Voltage

[reprisal]

Hello all. I'm currently using a Riva + Boge 510 LR cartos, a major upgrade for me over the kr808d-1 with standard resistance cartos. I've been looking into upgrades I may want in the future and have seen people talking about higher voltage (I'm particularly interested in 5v). I was wondering if I'd notice a major difference (as i did going from kr808 SR to riva LR) going from LR on Riva to a higher voltage device?

I read somewhere that using LR at standard wattage is the equivalent of using a higher voltage PV with normal resistance cartos. If this was the case though then why would people buy 100+ dollar high voltage mods (I doubt this is the case)?.

I've been looking at the GLV2 from greatlakesvapor.com and the Infinity from notcigs.com (doesn't look as nice aesthetically imo but is variable voltage which is a +). Id love it if someone who has owned both could compare the two. Which were you happier with?

I wouldn't be buying a mod for at least a month or two, are there any amazing mods being released soon that I should wait for?

 

[Bdbodger]

I have a provari and almost never go above 5 volts . Most of the time the sweet spot is at 4.4 volt . I think some people miss the point of a VV mod . It is not to crank up the voltage for bragging rights it is to dial in the perfect voltage for the atty or carto that your using . I stick with 3ohm cartos but I do have some HR attys . Above 5 volts you need HR gear . I almost gave up on tanks until I got my provari . Don't forget higher voltage is harder on your gear so it may not last as long . Also using higher voltage you will go through more eliquid just as you do with a LR carto .

 

[LMP]

Here is an inexpensive variable voltage box mod:

Variable Voltage Box Mod

They are out of stock but should have more soon.

 

[JW50]

I read somewhere that using LR at standard wattage is the equivalent of using a higher voltage PV with normal resistance cartos. If this was the case though then why would people buy 100+ dollar high voltage mods (I doubt this is the case)?.

I think your terms are somewhat mixed up. I think you mean LR at standard voltage. LR at "standard" voltage versus "normal" resistance atty at standard voltage will produce higher wattage. I think the formula is V squared divided by R where V is voltage and R is resistance. So if V is fixed, decreasing R results in increasing watts. In practice, formula is a bit more complex as V should be "loaded voltage". Loaded voltage can vary as R is varied. Also, loaded V will decline as the charge of bat is consumed with use.

I think (I may be wrong) the GLV2 is a variable wattage device, to a degree. I think the device uses a fixed in line resistor to drop the voltage that the atty "sees" to 5 volts if the atty is 2.5 ohms. Therefore, if 2.5 ohm atty, device will produce 10 watts of heat. (5 times 5 divided by 2.5).

The Infinity (again, I think and could be wrong) has an in line resistor that can be varied so that the atty will "see" different voltages depending on how the in line resistor is set. Theoretically I suppose that the in line might be zero so a 2.5 ohm atty might "see" 7.6 volts at times. 7.6 loaded volts on a 2.5 ohm atty is 23 watts. But to get to that 23 watts, current of over 3 amps is needed. 3 amps places lots of stress on components.

The overall question is somewhat related to a question of best vape watts. A Riva with a 2.5 atty attached will (based on my measurements) provide a loaded voltage of about 3.8 (declines with use to about 3.05 just prior to cut off). Resulting wattage is about 5.8. Is vape coming from 23 watts better than one coming from 10 watts? No idea. I find vape coming from 5.8 watts usually satisfactory. But it would seem to be advantageous if one could vary the volts (or watts) to set it at the "just right" watts (or volts). Style has something to do with mix as well.

 

[BWG707]

I have a GLV-2 5volt and a ego usb passthrough. I have used lots of different cartos , tanks, atomizers, etc. LR cartos, SR cartos and HV cartos. No matter what cartos you use you will definitely notice a difference in the 5volt mods. 5volts have spoiled me. I get a much better TH using 5volts. I also like the warm vapor and the taste is better. You can use different ohm cartos to get diiferent vaping results but in the end a 3.7volt PV can not match the TH, vapor production, or taste of a 5volt PV. These are all my opinions but I believe they are accurate. If at all possible try to use/borrow a 5volt and make your own decisions. Good luck.

 

[wrigleyvillain]

I read somewhere that using LR at standard wattage is the equivalent of using a higher voltage PV with normal resistance cartos. If this was the case though then why would people buy 100+ dollar high voltage mods (I doubt this is the case)?.

Yeah LR on 3.2 to 3.7v can simulate HV vaping but without having tried 5v myself yet even I can tell you it's not the same thing in terms of vapor production, heat etc. Your common sense notion was correct. If it were no one would buy expensive HV mods, at least not VV ones, like you figured.

 

[WomanOfHeart]

I'm currently vaping one of my mods at 6V with a 3.5Ω atty, and my other mod at 3.7V with a 1.6Ω single coil carto. Believe me, I can definitely tell the difference between the two. The 6V only needs a very short hit, otherwise I'm overwhelmed by the throat hit and heat. The 3.7V allows me a longer hit with little throat hit and cooler vapor.

 

[JW50]

I'm currently vaping one of my mods at 6V with a 3.5Ω atty, and my other mod at 3.7V with a 1.6Ω single coil carto. Believe me, I can definitely tell the difference between the two. The 6V only needs a very short hit, otherwise I'm overwhelmed by the throat hit and heat. The 3.7V allows me a longer hit with little throat hit and cooler vapor.

It might be interesting to know the loaded voltage of the two. But using the voltages stated as being loaded numbers the 6V/3.5 is 10.3 watts. The 3.7V/1.6 is 8.6 watts, about 20% less than the higher voltage situation. The 8.6 number is however probably overstated as it would infer 2.3 amps - probably too high. Difference is likely greater than 20%. With same e-liquid on the different devices, is flavor/taste the same or does it vary as well? In terms of flavor, is one better than the other? Note that BD above says sweet spot is about 4.4 at, I think 3 ohms. That is about 6.5 watts, below either of your two situations.

 

[reprisal]

BWG707, what cartos did you find you liked the best on the GLV2?

I'm a bit worried about trying a mod due to things I've heard about maximum amps, I'm assuming I can't use my LR Boges on a HV PV. What about dual coil cartos? I've been interested in trying those as well, but apparently they are bad for Rivas.

 

[fsroq]

They will probably shorten the life time of the batterie, but work fine (1.5Ohm). Nevertheless, a mod with 2 14500 batteries, set at the same voltage as your Riva bats will be producing more watts, because it can deliver the amps, the Riva cann´t.

 

[BuzzKill]

It really comes down to the POWER , it is a mathematical equation of OHMS LAW , lower the resistance with a fixed voltage and the Power or WATTS will go up ( more heat produced by the coil) and if you RAISE the voltage on a fixed resistance the Power goes up as well , a battery is a current or amps storage device the faster you use the current the faster your battery will discharge , so Higher OHMS and Higher voltage reduce the current draw hence giving you longer battery life.


View attachment 45610 look at this chart , the lower the resistance the higher the current

Here is a breakdown of the TYPES of devices , BTW the Infinity uses a regulator not a resistor to control the voltage .



Modified Electronic Cigarettes and their types

There are 4 main types of devices

I. 1. battery powered , no regulation ( no voltage control , power to the atomizer follows the battery voltage )
2. Fixed Regulated ( they are a preset voltage output )
II. 3. Switched regulated ( they have several preset voltages that are selectable )
III. 4. Variable regulated ( they are continuously variable within a range of voltages )

Advantages / disadvantages

A . Battery powered
i. Advantages: No circuitry to fail ,
ii. Disadvantages : No load regulation , the voltage will droop with the battery life and you will loose power and vapor , No protection circuitry

B. Fixed regulation :
iii. Advantages : Regulated output voltage , consistent vaping voltage over the life of the battery
iv. Disadvantages : No control over the voltage

C. Switched regulation
v. Advantages : Regulated output voltage , switchable voltage values
vi. disadvantages : values are fixed and can not be adjusted

D. Variable regulation:
i. advantages : Complete control over the output voltage to the atomizer
ii. disadvantages : you will fiddle with the voltage until you find the spot you like .

PS: not all regulators are created equal , most have built in protection circuitry but not all so ask the manufacturer.

Types of regulators : there are 2 main types of regulators

1. Linear / analog types , these types of regulators drop voltage across them to control the output voltage to the load (i.e. Atomizer or cartomizer ) they require a certain amount of minimum voltage across them to operate ( LDO types requires less voltage drop across them ).
2. PWM or ( pulse width modulated ) this type of regulator uses pulses of voltage switching on and off to charge a capacitor and regulate the voltage output , there are 2 types of basic PWM regulators A. Buck and B. Boost , a buck regulator drops the voltage down and Boost reg. Boosts the voltage ( there is another type that does both )

There are advantages and disadvantages to each type BUT any regulated device will control the voltage and keep it stable throughout the battery charge time .
Many people have found that uncontrolled voltage to an atomizer can cause them to open up and go bad , or cause the flavor and temperature of the juice to taste burnt or too hot for the vapor .

Mike Buzzetti AKA Buzzkill
Notcigs.com




Ohm's Law Calculator

 

[BWG707]

BWG707, what cartos did you find you liked the best on the GLV2?

I'm a bit worried about trying a mod due to things I've heard about maximum amps, I'm assuming I can't use my LR Boges on a HV PV. What about dual coil cartos? I've been interested in trying those as well, but apparently they are bad for Rivas.

I use Boge 3.0ohm cartos but you can use LR cartos also. I've tried some of the LR cartos on the GLV-2, they work fine but I think they are a little hot and I definitely prefer the SR. I've even tried the HV. They also work fine but are a bit too cool and I need to draw on them longer. Even with the CE2 clearomizers the 3.0ohm seem to be the best, in my opinion.

 

[classwife]

...I have a GLV2 in my stash of stuff....I much prefer dripping with it over cartos.....

 

[wv2win]

I have a GLV-2 5volt and a ego usb passthrough. I have used lots of different cartos , tanks, atomizers, etc. LR cartos, SR cartos and HV cartos. No matter what cartos you use you will definitely notice a difference in the 5volt mods. 5volts have spoiled me. I get a much better TH using 5volts. I also like the warm vapor and the taste is better. You can use different ohm cartos to get diiferent vaping results but in the end a 3.7volt PV can not match the TH, vapor production, or taste of a 5volt PV. These are all my opinions but I believe they are accurate. If at all possible try to use/borrow a 5volt and make your own decisions. Good luck.

I agree with this assessment completely. LR attys on a 3.2-3.7v PV can't compare to the warmth and consistency of a good 5 volt PV suchas the GLV2 and definitely not to a good variable volt PV. LR atty to me, just don't hold up that long, become inconsistent quickly and just don't provide the same warmth.

BWG707, what cartos did you find you liked the best on the GLV2?

I'm a bit worried about trying a mod due to things I've heard about maximum amps, I'm assuming I can't use my LR Boges on a HV PV. What about dual coil cartos? I've been interested in trying those as well, but apparently they are bad for Rivas.

I have used dual coil cartos on a 5 volt box mod BUT only with high drain batteries. They have to have batteries that have a protection circuit that will not get tripped due to the power requirements of the dual coil's.

 

[JW50]

I have used dual coil cartos on a 5 volt box mod BUT only with high drain batteries. They have to have batteries that have a protection circuit that will not get tripped due to the power requirements of the dual coil's.

What is the resistance of a dual coil carto - if you know? What current draw is permissible for high drain bats? Comparing same e-liquid on a 5 volt box mod to, say, an eGo 650 mah bat or a Riva 700 mah bat, do all e-liquids produce better results in terms of flavor, TH, vapor, etc. at 5 volts? (Consistence too - a big complaint of mine.) Are there some liquids that are better at the lower volts? Is there a particular wattage that seems best - to you?

 

[CraigHB]

I use a VV device and the big advantage I find is the high resolution I have in adjusting the heat of my vape. With an LR atty and an unregulated device, it's either LR or SR, nothing inbetween. Also with VV, you don't really care what the resistance is on your atty/carto, because you know you'll be able to find a good voltage to get it vaping where you like it. That comes in handy when atty resistance changes with wear.

Most VV devices will measure out voltage at the atty connector with nothing attached fairly close to the voltage they actually deliver to the atomizer when it's energized, but that isn't always the case. There is always some difference and it's usually greater with an unregulated device.

It's always best to measure voltage under load, in other words, with the atomizer energized. You need an adapter that provides lead points (or wires) for that. Pretty easy to make one, but you can also get inline voltage checkers like this one.

One caveat is for devices like the eGo that use PWM to control power delivery. Since the output is pulsed, you can only get an accurate equivalent DC voltage with a true RMS meter. If you do happen to have an RMS meter, you for sure have to measure under load since the controller goes into an "idle" mode when it's not driving anything.

Power is always voltage squared over resistance so once you get a good voltage reading and atomizer resistance reading, you can calculate your power quite simply.

Power is not the end all measurment of your vaping experience. It gives you a good idea since power equates to heat, but due to physical differences in the amount of heat applied over a certain area, you may not get the same experience with an LR at standard voltage compared to an SR at higher voltage, even if power calculates exactly the same.

 

[wv2win]

What is the resistance of a dual coil carto - if you know? What current draw is permissible for high drain bats? Comparing same e-liquid on a 5 volt box mod to, say, an eGo 650 mah bat or a Riva 700 mah bat, do all e-liquids produce better results in terms of flavor, TH, vapor, etc. at 5 volts? (Consistence too - a big complaint of mine.) Are there some liquids that are better at the lower volts? Is there a particular wattage that seems best - to you?

Most dual coil's are a combined 1.6 resistence although they have started coming out with some that are 2.0 resistence. nhaler.com has 801 dual coil cartos that are 2.0 resistence.

On the eliquid question, that is a personal preferance. With the liquids I vape, they all do fine between 4.5 and 5.1 volts which is where I stay 95% of the time. With dual coil's, I usually vape around 4.0 volts.

I do not know the actual number of the current draw for high drain batteries. I just know that with non high drain that are the same volts, if I use a dual coil carto, it will trip the protection circuit in the battery and cut them off whereas that is not a problem with the high drain ones. I got mine from Ken's Box Mods. Dual coil attys will drain the batteries much more quickly. A 5-6 hour normal charge will be reduced to about 3.5 hours.

A 5 volt PV will always provide better consistency because they hold a higher charge longer. But as someone mentioned before, how the PV is built as far as "regulating" the current also plays a big factor in consistency. A PV that uses a "regulated boost circuit" to control the power will give much better consistency. A 5 volt PV definitely provides better throat hit than a 3.7 volt PV.

The variable volt Darwin is a good example of a PV that used "regulated boost circuit" technology. The last vape on the Darwin right before the battery dies is exactly the same as the first one when it is just off the charger. And for a heavy vaper like myself, I get 21+ hours on a charge. The Darwin also compensates automatically for the resistence change in the atty/carto as you vape.

On a 2.5 to 3.0 resistence atty, my ideal wattage is about 8.5 watts which gives me around the 4.5 to 5.0 volt level.

 

[Gilliz]

I'm currently vaping one of my mods at 6V with a 3.5Ω atty, and my other mod at 3.7V with a 1.6Ω single coil carto. Believe me, I can definitely tell the difference between the two. The 6V only needs a very short hit, otherwise I'm overwhelmed by the throat hit and heat. The 3.7V allows me a longer hit with little throat hit and cooler vapor.

Exactly!

In addition;

Personally. I prefer 5 volts and higher. Being the spoiled vape-a-holic that I am, I like the speed at which HV delivers warmth, flavor and TH. "Simulated" 3.7V does well, but it's just to slow for me.

 

[CraigHB]

The variable volt Darwin is a good example of a PV that used "regulated boost circuit" technology. The last vape on the Darwin right before the battery dies is exactly the same as the first one when it is just off the charger.

That's more an argument of unregulated versus regulated, not as particularly an argument of VV versus unregulated. Since all VV devices are regulated, they can be used as an example. For instance, a non-variable 5V regulated mod will also provide a consistent vape until it's time to change out the batteries. The same can be said even for an eGo.

I was going to mention the advantage of a regulated device in that way, but my previous post was already too long winded. In my case, it's difficult for me to use an unregulated mod now that I'm accustomed to that consistent vape. The way a simple cell battery mod falls off as the battery discharges is not very tolerable for me anymore.

 

[JW50]

To Craig and/or WV - apparently quite experienced modders - with thoughts of benefits to OP - is there a mod that is close in size and shape to an eGo 650 mah or Riva 700 mah that could be used with tank attys or similar or an eGo-T tank, that give finished form comparable to eGo-T, but that provide higher and variable voltage. Or alternatively, an inexpensive starter step toward variable voltage. (It occurs to me that inexpensive 1/2 steps may be waste of money but, if case, would like to hear it from the more experienced. Perhaps everyone should have Darwin if affordable?)