Lung Cancer and E-cigs

[idoesmoking]

The only mood change I see is being ecstatic because every night ends another smoke free day.

Thats the problem, we have to find out whether this "ecstasy" is due to the fact that we are going/are smoke free or the effect of the chemical?

When we give a "mood changing" drug to a psychiatric patient, he or she does not know what we are doing or we want to do, but we change his or her mind as per our desired state (that is to normal).If the patient is of depression, his/her mood become good, he/she feels "the world is not so bad"
.

Actually there are several steps or degree of mood elevation, one of them is known as Ecstasy.

 

[idoesmoking]

By the way, nicotine even in the smallest dose, if taken for long period can cause certain diseases. One of them is Thromboangiitis Obliterans (Buerger’s disease).I ampute atleast 1 patient per month for this condition. I and my co workers (in a study) believe that its due to direct toxic effect of Nicotine.Patients often are addicted to smokeless tobaccos.I personally think this condition is more painfull and bad than "lung cancer" itself.Because, a lung cancer patient gets rid of all pain within some months to years after diagnosis (read death) but patient of Thromboangiitis Obliterans does not die so easily (normal or near normal life expectancy)-they are prey of Infections,Pain and Disability after amputation.Its very difficult to control the pain even with the highest analgesics.

 

[seminolewind]

The only mood change I see is being ecstatic because every night ends another smoke free day.

I don't think this member's ecstacy is from being smoke free, as I am ecstatic about it too. I don't think it has anything to do with Ethylene Glycol, which is not present in e-cigs as far as we know, only propylene glycol. I don't think the members here are being under the influence of mind altering drugs, either.

As far as I know about Buerger's Disease, the cause is unknown but tobacco smoking or chewing is a primary risk factor, not nicotine. Approximately 6 out of 10,000 people get it, men mostly of Asian or Middle East descent, like from India.

 

[dee5]

First, welcome to you idoesmoking. It is always nice to see a Dr. on the forum and I look forward to your reports on how you feel once you are able to reduce or quit smoking cigarettes. When you read people posting about how they feel better or they are ecstatic, we mean that we feel better physically ie: breathe easier, have more energy, taste food better, smell fragrances better AND we also feel better mentally ie: happy that we have been able to finally get control of our smoking habit when before we only knew failure, and that it was so much easier than any prior attempts. I don't believe that there is any ingredient in e-liquid that creates a euphoric response. The people on this forum who have quit smoking using the e-cig feel just as good as any smoker who quits a different way. The body responds in a very positive way and we "feel good". Smoking makes you feel tired, heavy and old. Quitting makes you feel positive about yourself again.

 

[idoesmoking]

I don't think this member's ecstacy is from being smoke free, as I am ecstatic about it too. I don't think it has anything to do with Ethylene Glycol, which is not present in e-cigs as far as we know, only propylene glycol. I don't think the members here are being under the influence of mind altering drugs, either.

As far as I know about Buerger's Disease, the cause is unknown but tobacco smoking or chewing is a primary risk factor, not nicotine. Approximately 6 out of 10,000 people get it, men mostly of Asian or Middle East descent, like from India.

If your first guess is right,we all would be very happy...if its propylene glycol, then it obviously better than E.G.
Finally, I have not vaped yet,as I have said previously, but will so in 2-3 days.How can you say there is no drug effect to alter your mind?I am asking as your friend, not as a opponent,so, please try to help me.I think you will not misunderstand me. What you expect and want, that made you to join here is the same reason is that for me



For Burger's disease,there is no direct proof that nicotine directly causes it, as there has not been (and will not be probably) a controlled trial to proof , no one takes pure nicotine for years after years, they just use it for some months to get rid of the withdrawal symptoms.But, there is plenty of evidence based study, which has been able to establish (including our study) that, perhaps these patients develops a hypersensitivity reaction against nicotine.I am not going into details for the disease pathogenesis for obvious reason here.

Help me providing data to help safe vaping if you all wish...

 

[idoesmoking]

First, welcome to you idoesmoking. It is always nice to see a Dr. on the forum and I look forward to your reports on how you feel once you are able to reduce or quit smoking cigarettes. When you read people posting about how they feel better or they are ecstatic, we mean that we feel better physically ie: breathe easier, have more energy, taste food better, smell fragrances better AND we also feel better mentally ie: happy that we have been able to finally get control of our smoking habit when before we only knew failure, and that it was so much easier than any prior attempts. I don't believe that there is any ingredient in e-liquid that creates a euphoric response. The people on this forum who have quit smoking using the e-cig feel just as good as any smoker who quits a different way. The body responds in a very positive way and we "feel good". Smoking makes you feel tired, heavy and old. Quitting makes you feel positive about yourself again.

Thank you.
Thats a good support...

 

[Thulium]

For the record, it is extremely unlikely that the DEG found in the FDA study was from glue or some other aspect because it was specifically detected in the one 555 cartridge itself. The most likely explanation for the DEG is that it is an impurity from the tobacco used to add nicotine and/or flavoring.

It is important to note that DEG was not found in the actual vapor from any of the cartridges tested.

Regarding the "good feeling" we have from vaping, all credit goes to the fact that we are able to keep the things we enjoy about smoking but have almost completely eliminated the the things we dislike about smoking. I can still enjoy the relaxation of a "vape break"--in fact, I like my vape breaks better than smoke breaks because with smoke you are constantly battling your own body trying to reject the poison, but with vapor I am not afraid to let the vapor linger and simply enjoy the flavor rather than merely puffing and exhaling smoke to get a quick jolt of nicotine.

 

[Shadowdr]

I don't see the FDA as having a specific right to control e-ciggs because of the new law as it pertains to tobacco products. Nicotine can and should be synthetically produced without the use of tobacco. As a derivative from tobacco it could certainly contain carcinogens as well as other harmful chemicals. As far as the ethylene glycol (or more likely diethylene glycol, AKA DEG) found in the single cartridge, it could have easily come from another source during the production. PG as well as glycerin in other countries has been found to be contaminated with DEG in many cases. China is known to use DEG in toothpaste in amounts up to 15.6% and claims that this amount is not harmful, another good reason to produce these products in the U.S.

 

[idoesmoking]

@Thulium:
Yah,that could be the explanation about the source for DEG/EG.If its not not in the vapor itself, then its good thing.
I like your explanation for feeling good.I raised the question of adulteration with some "mood elevators" is due to the fact,I have seen many users (of this forum) are saying they are vaping "almost always" (though I dont know how frequent they smoked the real cig-so,there may be a bias).

@Shadowdr:
If "some Govt. representative body" wants well being for the people, they must ban the real cigarette first; isn't it? But, nooo, they dont do that, instead they increase the tax (upto 300% in some countries) to collect more money.Is there any country in this world whose Govt. tried to get tobacco free?

_________________________________________________________________________
So,a short sum up of the facts from different threads:
1.The e-fluid contents varies with different brands.
2.Some e-cig burns the filler to produce a bad "burnt plastic" like flavour, which may be harmful.
3.Marked sleep disturbance (I think this is attributable to improper selection of the dose of nicotine alone or cig withdrawal or both).
4.We dont have enough data to say e-cig is harmful than regular cig, but its apparently atleast theoretically less dangerous than regular cig which is not chemically defined.
5.its possible to reduce the dose of nicotine intake gradually, without the bad effects of sudden withdrawl.
6.People are feeling good because they are now able to quit or cut down the number of regular cig per day.
7.Appetite is increased.
8.Taste and smell sensation is returning to normal,though some are complain of "something" coating their tongue.
9.Reduced Chest tightness, cough, morning cough .

 

[idoesmoking]

Please comment from your personal experiences.

 

[Thulium]

@Thulium:
Yah,that could be the explanation about the source for DEG/EG.If its not not in the vapor itself, then its good thing.

My theory about why DEG was not detected in the vapor is that DEG has a higher vaporization temperature than PG and therefore is not volatized at the low temperatures used in electronic cigarette atomizers. The other possibility is that the vaporization process diluted the impurities below detectable levels. But that's just my thoughts. For a more scientific analysis of the FDA report, look here: http://www.ecassoc.org/downloads/Response-to-the-FDA-Summary.pdf

Not only was the DEG not detected in the vapor, the cartridge in question is not even on the market. SmokingEverywhere stopped selling the 555 High several months before the FDA study was released to the public. Considering how much time the FDA had with this report before they released it, one might expect

I like your explanation for feeling good.I raised the question of adulteration with some "mood elevators" is due to the fact,I have seen many users (of this forum) are saying they are vaping "almost always" (though I dont know how frequent they smoked the real cig-so,there may be a bias).

There's upwards of 40mg of nicotine in a single cigarette, whereas "Ultrahigh" e-liquid has only 24mg/ml and one ml of e-liquid replaces up to 20 cigarettes. Granted, most studies show only about a milligram of nicotine is absorbed by the body per cigarette, but in light of the physical differences in the way that nicotine is delivered and absorbed, vapers tend to go through a "pacifier" phase as they make the analog to digital conversion. (ha! I like that term! )

Some people have chosen to bump up their nicotine levels to get past the pacifier phase, while others regard it as inevitable since (as opposed to smoke) the vapor tastes so good so they'll use lower nic juice knowing that they will be vaping more.

The 12/24 mix I have seems to be working for me so I'm not messing with it. I've got plenty of 24mg juice that I use in the morning or if I've been drinking alcohol, but mostly use 12mg to better enjoy the flavor of the liquids.

All that said, I don't think I've seen even the heaviest users say they were using more than about 3ml/day.

I'd comment on the other points you make, but I think its better to just leave that for the appropriate forum: Health, Safety and E-Smoking - e-cigarette-forum.com • The place for electronic cigarette reviews, news and chat

 

[umop apisdn]

To be fair, I will use a defense I saw against an article that was anti-e-cigarette.
Look at the bottom of the article, see the link. This is an advertisement for ecigarettesnational.com. Although the "article" does present facts instead of biased claims, you can look past it. But watch out for articles like this that you want to represent us to an untrained eye. They don't see the difference between facts and claims before they see a link.

 

[idoesmoking]

@Thulium:
Very useful link; thank you very much.it cleared some of my confusion.Your post is very nicely written too.
I know I can reduce the dose of nicotine ( that is taper) slowing over 6 months to zero with the help of this device.Unfortunately, despite knowing that its an safe device than regular cig , I or we are bounded NOT TO PRESCRIBE IT as FDA has a warning for it.

@umop apisdn:
Which article are you saying about? can you give the link please?

 

[dee5]

"...we are bounded NOT TO PRESCRIBE IT as FDA has a warning for it."

I don't see how a doctor COULD prescribe an e-cigarette. They are not available in pharmacies (yet!). However, when I told my doctor that I was using an e-cigarette and took it out to show it to him, he said "Oh yes, I have recommended those to some of my patients" I thanked him sincerely!

 

[idoesmoking]

"...we are bounded NOT TO PRESCRIBE IT as FDA has a warning for it."

I don't see how a doctor COULD prescribe an e-cigarette. They are not available in pharmacies (yet!). However, when I told my doctor that I was using an e-cigarette and took it out to show it to him, he said "Oh yes, I have recommended those to some of my patients" I thanked him sincerely!

Actually, the "need" to "prescribe" comes, when any heavy smoker patient comes to me with some adverse effect to taking cig or other smokeless tobacco, where I know that discontinuing those things will stop the progression of the disease;( say leukoplakia for example (its a precancerous condition but quitting can even revert the disease where as continuing can lead to frank cancer ) but, the patient is unable to quit. As, strictly saying, treatment and management of drug addicts is not in my field (General surgery) , I generally refer them to a Psychiatrist (the only faculty in India for De-addiction easily available) asking him "please consider using nicotine patch for de-addiction for this patient".As the patient is primarily mine, I like to say the Psychiatrist what I expect from him.There is no ethical problem.I am not interfering him.Say, if I dont write those lines , he may suggest the patient Nicotine gum, which I know is dangerous for him. The whole procedure I wrote is legal in India.
So, answer to your question "I don't see how a doctor COULD prescribe an e-cigarette" is here I think .Actually I used the term "prescribe" loosely as it was not a Court of Law! Sorry for that, as a general surgeon I should have to say "suggest" But, if I was a Psychiatrist ( remind that de-addiction is in the field of a Psychiatrist in India) I could directly prescribe it for de-addiction (if FDA gave green signal stating its indication in de-addiction).

"They are not available in pharmacies (yet!)" yes, but when we write "gargle with warm saline water atleast x times daily" here both "water" and "common salt" are sold outside pharmacy, in habitual constipation, we often prescribe to use "isabgula" , its both available in pharmacy (in raw form) and at stores (unrefined,non branded) - is not it? You donot ask why because they are safe. If e-cigarette can establish itself officially as safe way to quit, there is possibility of being not sold without prescription (in some countries)-because it will become a medical device.

I have no interest FOR NOW DUE TO TURBIDITY OF THIS ISSUE of using e-cig. Even if somebody asks me, I should say "FDA has warning regarding its use"

Thats it.Thats why I am interested about it apart from my personal use

Both Nicotine patch and Nicotine gum is not sold without Prescription in maximum states in India (atleast legally).I think the laws are something different in your country and my country regarding these one.
I think we should not misunderstood each other for these Laws or political facts.Isnt it?