Machining cost

[slickcdb2000]

So, I have a very good design in my head. It's a box mod with a built in genesis rba, basically a sidewinder and reo combined. Went to a machine shop in mobile Alabama to get some cost. I had with me a reo grand and genesis atty. Showed him what I wanted, tried explaining it. Just wanting to get a ballpark figure of cost to machine. He just kinda kept scratching his head saying he didn't know. So I handed him my reo and asked how much he would charge to machine something similar. He scratched and kicked around a bit and said it would be around 600, I knew the first one would be expensive! I said Ok and asked once he got the first one done and cnc programmed how much would 100 cost to duplicate, he said about 300! that's outrageous! That's just the machining! Not included everything else! So any one more familiar with machine work, is that a fair price?

I think where I screwed up was telling him how much I just paid for a used ihybrid! His ears perked up when I told him that and I'm sure all he seen was dollar signs! I will be getting more prices from more shops when I get it drawn on paper.

And by no means at all am I trying to clone a reo! I just wanted to get cost estimate and the base design will be somewhat similar to a reo.

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[Bringo]

I was interested in this also. I've been toying with the idea of making a 3D model and having it milled. I'm hoping the cost he gave you isn't the norm.

 

[LucentShadow]

So, I have a very good design in my head. It's a box mod with a built in genesis rba, basically a sidewinder and reo combined. Went to a machine shop in mobile Alabama to get some cost. I had with me a reo grand and genesis atty. Showed him what I wanted, tried explaining it. Just wanting to get a ballpark figure of cost to machine. He just kinda kept scratching his head saying he didn't know. So I handed him my reo and asked how much he would charge to machine something similar. He scratched and kicked around a bit and said it would be around 600, I knew the first one would be expensive! I said Ok and asked once he got the first one done and cnc programmed how much would 100 cost to duplicate, he said about 300! that's outrageous! That's just the machining! Not included everything else! So any one more familiar with machine work, is that a fair price?

I think where I screwed up was telling him how much I just paid for a used ihybrid! His ears perked up when I told him that and I'm sure all he seen was dollar signs! I will be getting more prices from more shops when I get it drawn on paper.

And by no means at all am I trying to clone a reo! I just wanted to get cost estimate and the base design will be somewhat similar to a reo.

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If I understand that correctly, he gave you an estimate of $600 for the prototype, and $300 for a production run of 100 pcs, with no real idea what exactly you want, and no mechanical drawings to go on. Is material included? There are a ton of variables just based upon the material itself, and in what dimensions that it can be gotten.

In any case, good luck beating that. Seems too good to be true, to me.

It's quite difficult to 'estimate' a price for something like that. Small details can make for a big change in programming, tooling, and even fixturing. If you are looking for them to design it, based upon your ideas, that's a nightmare scenario that many would not even consider.

I would want detailed drawings with all dimensions before even considering quoting a job. If you're not an engineer, you'd probably have to revise the drawing several times just to get it to a point that it's economically machinable, making it worth quoting at all. The biggest point, the machinist does not usually want to deal with you possibly blaming them for design failures, so they would usually require good drawings to work from, and you get what you ask for. Period.

If I were scrounging for work, I would have quoted that much higher. Otherwise you'd get a no-quote from me.

I'm sure that there are some that may be into doing that sort of thing, but be prepared for it to be longer and more expensive than you may expect, unless you can come up with a good design on your own, on the first try.

I hope that doesn't sound too harsh, but I don't think it's reasonable to call that quote 'outrageous'. I think that you underestimate much of what goes into such a process. Anyway, I'm in that very business, and thought that you may benefit from my opinion.

Good luck.

 

[slickcdb2000]

That sounds very very true. I definitely understand that I need drawings to get an accurate quote for sure! The first piece at 600 didn't bother me at all, but the duplicates at 300 did! I thought once the first piece is done and programming on the cnc was finished it would be WAY cheaper than that! I have started working on some final drawings and will be getting some quotes from other machine shops very soon!

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[TomCatt]

Just curious, was it ($300 for 100) or (100 @ $300 each)?

 

[JJOOHHNN]

Machine shop quality is all over the place, be careful and you you might also be at a shop that does super good work hence the price.

I was at a company once that made a fully machined tool that cost $800k. The tolerances were very very very tight. There were competing tools at half the price. Often a company would balk at the price then the company would come back later and buy the $800k tool because it actually saved them money over the $400k tool. The thing is the $800k tool was breaking world records over and over again while the $400k tool broke because of things such as the tolerances were too lose.

When I have had parts made and went for price and it was something that required tight tolerances I ended up tossing parts all the time as they were not usable. Other times things were fine as tight tolerances were not needed.

Are you sure this is not a shop that make a lot of products that are super tight tolerances and smoothness. I have watched a company scrap 7 figures worth of parts because the surface smoothness was not good enough. A supervisor thought he could get production up but what it did was make parts that would create friction under load and temperatures would rise to 2000f in seconds.


It helps to know what the shop you go to is used to doing, what they are capable of, who they make parts for.


You could be at a shop that is used to making parts at far tighter tolerances than what you need and the parts will be very expensive. You could be at a shop that is used to making cheaper parts that are too loose for your application but the parts will be cheap. You might be at a shop that makes the parts just right.

I once outfitted an expedition and had a custom part made, only 20% of the parts were usable, the rest was thrown away. I went cheap. I learned a valuable lesson there. For most applications that part would have been just fine but not for this.

You get what you pay for.

You need to know what tolerances need to be held for this part. The tighter that is needed the higher the cost. If this does not come into the discussion you don't know what you are getting a quote for.

I have seen some machines not capable of the precision needed and some machines that were capable of far better. I have seen some applications where inserts were discarded very fast and new measurments taken on every single part.

 

[slickcdb2000]

That all makes very very good sense! I'm in progress of getting everything on paper then I will have something to work with! I also have lot of good questions for the machinist too! I do need good tolerances but I also need to get the cost down because by the time I finish one mod will have to charge 400+ just to break even!

And yes, that quote was 300 a piece!


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[LucentShadow]

That all makes very very good sense! I'm in progress of getting everything on paper then I will have something to work with! I also have lot of good questions for the machinist too! I do need good tolerances but I also need to get the cost down because by the time I finish one mod will have to charge 400+ just to break even!

And yes, that quote was 300 a piece!


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If he quoted you $300 per unit for a production run, but only $600 for the prototype, that just doesn't make much sense to me. I'd assume that he had decided that he didn't want the job by the time you asked him about the cost of a production run, unless he planned on manually machining everything...

Tolerances of +/- 0.01 - 0.02" should be price-friendly, and workable from a design standpoint.

You'll have much better luck with quotes if you get everything that they would want to see in order beforehand.

Don't forget to put some thought into what material it can be made from, how much that will cost, and how much machining it will require to get it to the correct shape and finish.

 

[slickcdb2000]

I was expecting the first to be pricey for sure, so 600 didn't bother me. But once the cnc is programmed the production time would be cut significantly! But yet the cost was still way up there! There is no way it could be made affordable!

I need to make something clear, I'm not out to make a quick buck! It's that I work in the construction industry and would love to take my genesis with me to work. I love my reo because it works great on the go! Something that is 100% pocket friendly and sports a genesis atty would benefit a lot of people besides me for sure! There just really isn't a perfect pocket friendly mod out there for me!

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[Zen~]

Ask him for the cycle times he calculated, then how much he charges per minute of cycle time... unless that thing is taking 4 hours of time per unit, 300 bucks is WAY out of line... A Reo box isn't more than about 15 minutes of cycle time on an OLD SCHOOL CNC Mill... newer high speed stuff is under ten minutes .

He's basically telling you he doesn't want to do the job... Find a small shop that has capacity they aren't using. Your price will drop significantly. Machine spindles that aren't moving aren't making money.

 

[Bringo]

Did you ever find a better shop?

i just got my design quoted...wait for it...$1,300! Design is very simple too.

Hoping the 2nd shop goes a little better.

 

[slickcdb2000]

I actually went to a different shop. Got quoted quite different! This time got a quote of 15-20k! With a reproduction model at 800-1300! I headed a different route now!

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[Bringo]

I actually went to a different shop. Got quoted quite different! This time got a quote of 15-20k! With a reproduction model at 800-1300! I headed a different route now!

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what the hell...what sort of tolerances did you have annotated?

 

[Switched]

I actually went to a different shop. Got quoted quite different! This time got a quote of 15-20k! With a reproduction model at 800-1300! I headed a different route now!

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They are basically telling you to sex and travel, as they are not interested in the project. A friend of mine was shown a part on a lathe one day when he visited his MS. Guy told him that there job is worth 4 of yours?

 

[fourtytwo]

A couple of years ago, a friend of mine wanted 3 parts that he designed for his Vespa to be milled in Aluminium. 17 of his Vespa owner friends also wanted them.
When he found the prices they would have to pay, he decided to do them himself.
He bought a CNC mini mill, spent a month teaching himself how to use it and sold the mill afterwards. I think he recovered something close to 95% of his investment in the mill.
Keep in mind that this was not anywhere near commercial quality stuff. The resulting parts were cosmetic in nature and looked fantastic but the tolerances were not what I would want if I were making an aircraft part.

 

[317Vapers]

There either telling you to go kick rocks or they think you have a million dollar part here and they want to patent it lol. I have buddy with machine shop who is the only person to make parts for Roles Royce. He has patented parts and gets a damn good income from it. I have a feeling the way your telling them about it they are machining something more than it really is or just trying to get you out the door