Making a concentrate and steep time..

[LianazVapin]

So I'm making my first concentrate recipe called Holy Rich Base. It has flavors that need to steep at least a week or two. Once I mix just the flavors, if they steep together for 2 weeks as a concentrate, does it shorten the steep time when added to a mix w the VG/PG recipe? Do the flavor molecules come together as a steeped concentrate first?
The One-Shot concentrate in question is included in the photograph so that we can get a more clear idea of what I'm after.
TIA

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[Susaz]

If it's a complex flavor I generally mix it outside and then pour it before the base.

 

[LianazVapin]

If it's a complex flavor I generally mix it outside and then pour it before the base.

I guess I'm not understanding your reply. My question is referring to steeping the concentrate before it's used in a base and the effect on the steeping time of the finished product.

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[Izan]

So I'm making my first concentrate recipe called Holy Rich Base. It has flavors that need to steep at least a week or two. Once I mix just the flavors, if they steep together for 2 weeks as a concentrate, does it shorten the steep time when added to a mix w the VG/PG recipe? Do the flavor molecules come together as a steeped concentrate first? TIA

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Hi,
Depending on the concentrate, yes and/or no.
TFA Double RY4 concentrate is a mix of vanilla, caramel, light tobacco base and a bunch of EM.
IMO, It MUST be steeped after mixing for 30 days to permit the flavours to develop and properly mingle with the dilutant and nicotine in the mix.
No amount of tinkering with the concentrate has resulted in a shorter aging process for me.

The only method that seems to help is using approx 10% aged, finished juice as a "seed" for the new batch.

For example: using a 120ml bottle and a recipe for 100ml finished juice, add 10 or 12 ml of aged, finished juice from the "last batch" to the bottle and then measure and mix the 100ml recipe on top of that "seed".

DRY-4 still benefits from 30 days or more of aging, but the juice is much more vapable in 14 days than it would have been sin semilla.

I did notice a difference when using FW Butterscotch. The older and darker the bottle of concentrate became, the better the final mixes tasted. They did not age more quickly, but the flavour of the concentrate and thus the final mixes improved. (for my taste)

HTH
I

 

[LianazVapin]

Hi,
Depending on the concentrate, yes and/or no.
TFA Double RY4 concentrate is a mix of vanilla, caramel, light tobacco base and a bunch of EM.
IMO, It MUST be steeped after mixing for 30 days to permit the flavours to develop and properly mingle with the dilutant and nicotine in the mix.
No amount of tinkering with the concentrate has resulted in a shorter aging process for me.

The only method that seems to help is using approx 10% aged, finished juice as a "seed" for the new batch.

For example: using a 120ml bottle and a recipe for 100ml finished juice, add 10 or 12 ml of aged, finished juice from the "last batch" to the bottle and then measure and mix the 100ml recipe on top of that "seed".

DRY-4 still benefits from 30 days or more of aging, but the juice is much more vapable in 14 days than it would have been sin semilla.

I did notice a difference when using FW Butterscotch. The older and darker the bottle of concentrate became, the better the final mixes tasted. They did not age more quickly, but the flavour of the concentrate and thus the final mixes improved. (for my taste)

HTH
I

Thank you, that information is very helpful. This is a vanilla ice cream base with lots of Rich creams and holy vanilla in it. I'm outside gardening right now so I can't focus too well but after reading what you wrote, I do find that extremely helpful and I have heard about seating before

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[bombastinator]

Clarification question
My understanding, which may be wrong, is that steeping involves the nicotine protonating with different acids in the juice. This is all before adding any nicotine, correct?

 

[LianazVapin]

Clarification question
My understanding, which may be wrong, is that steeping involves the nicotine protonating with different acids in the juice. This is all before adding any nicotine, correct?

Actually this base and this concentrate have nothing to do with nicotine. On ELR, ther is a wrench tool to turn recipe into a concentrate (no PG/VG added) to use later in a recipe, making it simpler. My contrate of an ice cream base has no nicotine. I will add that later. The more experienced mixers are telling me that steeping is a process of getting the flavor molecules to blend with the PG/VG. I am a newbie, not good for info, sorry!

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[bombastinator]

Actually this base and this concentrate have nothing to do with nicotine. On ELR, ther is a wrench tool to turn recipe into a concentrate (no PG/VG added) to use later in a recipe, making it simpler. My contrate of an ice cream base has no nicotine. I will add that later. The more experienced mixers are telling me that steeping is a process of getting the flavor molecules to blend with the PG/VG. I am a newbie, not good for info, sorry!

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Answered my question at any rate. This is about other chemical combinations, except it isn’t. Feel rather than chemistry. Not my forte.

 

[Frenchfry1942]

All steep together. I write a lot of notes because I don't remember much after a month. Then after I vape it for a day, I write more notes so that when I make the recipe again, it is better.

I make a head of time now that I have proven recipes. I have 2-3 juices as far back as two springs ago.

I still make test sizes, though.

 

[smacuser]

I just enter my notes on ELR. Is that a bad thing to do?

 

[Frenchfry1942]

Whatever works. I still use Excel on my clay tablet.

 

[Susaz]

No steeping necessary when you mix the flavors. But make sure you shake everything well before mixing with VG/PG/Nic. Flavors fade when mixed.

 

[LianazVapin]

No steeping necessary when you mix the flavors. But make sure you shake everything well before mixing with VG/PG/Nic. Flavors fade when mixed.

That's what I was hoping for, but I've got contradictions from 3 different sites. They're saying that the steeping takes place between the flavor and the VG and PG when it's added. I don't know what to think. A concentrate is going to sit on my flavor shelf for a long time, and it is comprised of ingredients that definitely just steep for 2 weeks. I'm making my concentrate now and I guess I'll find out later when I mixing other flavors that are basically ready to Vapes, like my orange mix. They're good the next day. I do a warm bath steep and then I put things away in a cool dark cabinet.

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[LianazVapin]

Hi,
Depending on the concentrate, yes and/or no.
TFA Double RY4 concentrate is a mix of vanilla, caramel, light tobacco base and a bunch of EM.
IMO, It MUST be steeped after mixing for 30 days to permit the flavours to develop and properly mingle with the dilutant and nicotine in the mix.
No amount of tinkering with the concentrate has resulted in a shorter aging process for me.

The only method that seems to help is using approx 10% aged, finished juice as a "seed" for the new batch.

For example: using a 120ml bottle and a recipe for 100ml finished juice, add 10 or 12 ml of aged, finished juice from the "last batch" to the bottle and then measure and mix the 100ml recipe on top of that "seed".

DRY-4 still benefits from 30 days or more of aging, but the juice is much more vapable in 14 days than it would have been sin semilla.

I did notice a difference when using FW Butterscotch. The older and darker the bottle of concentrate became, the better the final mixes tasted. They did not age more quickly, but the flavour of the concentrate and thus the final mixes improved. (for my taste)

HTH
I

I included a photograph of the recipe in original post.

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[LianazVapin]

That's what I was hoping for, but I've got contradictions from 3 different sites. They're saying that the steeping takes place between the flavor and the VG and PG when it's added. I don't know what to think. A concentrate is going to sit on my flavor shelf for a long time, and it is comprised of ingredients that definitely just steep for 2 weeks. I'm making my concentrate now and I guess I'll find out later when I mixing other flavors that are basically ready to Vapes, like my orange mix. They're good the next day. I do a warm bath steep and then I put things away in a cool dark cabinet.

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I went ahead and included a photograph of the one shot concentrate recipe in the original post so you could take a gander at it.

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[LianazVapin]

I just enter my notes on ELR. Is that a bad thing to do?

I love using ELR to mix.

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[IDJoel]

I can only share my personal experience, so this is entirely anecdotal. I find absolutely no benefit (other than convenience) to making 0ne shots/flavor bases. It certainly makes mixing faster, and more convenient. But, I find no benefit in aging times... until PG, VG, and nicotine are added.

I have heard of some DIYers, who will mix a preliminary recipe (concentrate(s)+PG+VG+nic), of only the ingredient(s) that have extended aging requirements. Once that has aged, they will add to additional ingredients, for a final/complete recipe; which now requires minimal aging.

I am not certain of all the specifics (whether they are using higher percentages/concentrations). I do know there are several DIYers, over on the Random DIY mixing and More thread, who use this technique. You could post a question over there; asking them to share their process. They are all very friendly, and happy to help, and there is nothing that is off-topic (hence the title). If I am recalling correctly, the HS Italian Cream is one such ingredient, this method is popular for. A basic Cheesecake Base is another.

 

[LianazVapin]

Thanks so much!

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[LianazVapin]

I can only share my personal experience, so this is entirely anecdotal. I find absolutely no benefit (other than convenience) to making 0ne shots/flavor bases. It certainly makes mixing faster, and more convenient. But, I find no benefit in aging times... until PG, VG, and nicotine are added.

I have heard of some DIYers, who will mix a preliminary recipe (concentrate(s)+PG+VG+nic), of only the ingredient(s) that have extended aging requirements. Once that has aged, they will add to additional ingredients, for a final/complete recipe; which now requires minimal aging.

I am not certain of all the specifics (whether they are using higher percentages/concentrations). I do know there are several DIYers, over on the Random DIY mixing and More thread, who use this technique. You could post a question over there; asking them to share their process. They are all very friendly, and happy to help, and there is nothing that is off-topic (hence the title). If I am recalling correctly, the HS Italian Cream is one such ingredient, this method is popular for. A basic Cheesecake Base is another.

I think I did post there already. Also different forums. Mixed responses. Lol, so I will have to arrive at my own conclusions.

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[IDJoel]

I think I did post there already. Also different forums. Mixed responses. Lol, so I will have to arrive at my own conclusions.

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Nope... you don't have any posts in that thread.