maximum VG - what do I look out for?

[HeadInClouds]

I'm considering using maximum VG instead of my usual 50/50 to 70/30 pg/vg. It's mostly an experiment for me to see if my worsening tinnitus might be related to PG... I hope so, 'cause it's driving me nuts.

What issues might have switching to maximum VG? I'd still use the PG-based flavorings I already have, so not 100% VG.
Issues I know of:

* throat hit: probably not a biggie for me, but I could thin with grain alcohol or vodka if I want a little th, right?

* thicker liquid: figure I'll thin with water or alcohol, so it shouldn't be a problem

* sweeter taste: unlikely to bother anyone with a sweet tooth like mine

* huge clouds o' vapor: will adding water or alcohol keep it reasonable? I don't want anyone calling the fire department.

* possibly muted flavor? It seems some notice and some don't. I can kick flavorings up a notch if needed.

* any other factors I should know about, or should I just start mixing?

 

[Wingsfan0310]

Sounds like you pretty much have it covered. The only other thing I've ever heard anyone say negatively about all VG is that it caused them a feeling of heaviness in their chest. I've never noticed that, but I have never vaped 100% VG either. Like you, my flavors are in PG.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[Ld3441]

Most tinnitus is hearing related. Have you had your hearing checked?
Can't help with the VG question but I know about tinnitus!

 

[Giraut]

I've switched to 100% VG for the same reason as you - tinnitus.

Issues with VG:

- It takes some getting used to. For about a week, all the VG juices I tried had a really annoying buttery flavor. But after a while, you get used to it (I suppose your brain simply blanks out the butter flavor) and then your juices come alive.

- The juices often need steeping to become truly great.

- Straight VG isn't all that thick and is very vapeable without clogging things up. But I've found certain flavorings, when mixed with VG, make the resulting juice so thick it's almost unusable: the juice almost congeals to the point of not wicking up inside clearomizers, leading to burnt wicks and damaged clearos. Typically, the fruit and mint flavored juices I've tried are very fluid and vape great, while most tobacco-flavored juices are way too thick and very frustrating to vape.

- 100% VG juices are harder to come by, at least in my neck of the woods - i.e. I have to order online, which I dislike.

 

[HeadInClouds]

Most tinnitus is hearing related. Have you had your hearing checked?

I've had tinnitus as long as I remember - at least since I was 5 or 6. I do have high-frequency hearing loss from events back then. I just learned to live with it, not debilitating at all, noticed it only when it was quiet. Then a couple months after I started vaping, it got louder, and I noticed it more frequently. The past month or so it's really driving me up the wall, even when there's lots of background noise. I've seen enough research on PG that a test seems worthwhile. You said you know about tinnitus - you have it, too?

 

[HeadInClouds]

I've switched to 100% VG for the same reason as you - tinnitus.

Has it helped?

 

[Ld3441]

Oh yes, I have it too. My hearing loss was gradual and the more hearing I lost the more tinnitus I got. It's worth checking out.

I've had tinnitus as long as I remember - at least since I was 5 or 6. I do have high-frequency hearing loss from events back then. I just learned to live with it, not debilitating at all, noticed it only when it was quiet. Then a couple months after I started vaping, it got louder, and I noticed it more frequently. The past month or so it's really driving me up the wall, even when there's lots of background noise. I've seen enough research on PG that a test seems worthwhile. You said you know about tinnitus - you have it, too?

 

[Giraut]

Most tinnitus is hearing related.

Gee, who would have thought eh?

Have you had your hearing checked?
Can't help with the VG question but I know about tinnitus!

Getting your hearing checked is a good idea. Staying clear the hell away from PG is an even better idea.

As a long-time tinnitus sufferer who experienced a sudden rise in tinnitus level a few weeks after starting vaping, I experimented with various juice compositions, and now I'm 100% certain PG caused it. It took over a month for my tinnitus to return to pre-vaping levels after I switched to pure VG, all other ingredients being the same.

FWIW, this has been confirmed by my family doctor, with whom I discussed the issue: he told me that, while he had no experience with electronic cigarettes, he knows certain ear drops containing PG must never be prescribed to people with ruptured eardrums, because the PG gets into the inner ear and irritates or damages the cochlear nerve endings. When you vape PG, the eustachian tubes provide a direct route for the stuff to get to the inner ear, and he told me it didn't surprise him at all that vapers experience tinnitus.

Me, I'm not touching PG ever again. I'm even concerned that many flavorings are diluted in PG before being mixed with a 100% VG base, because then the resulting juice isn't really 100% VG, which is why I'm getting into homemade juices.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if a few years from now, tinnitus becomes a recognized side-effect of vaping, and a major public health issue similar to cancer in smokers. Now it's very early, and there aren't enough vapers to draw conclusions for public health authorities yet, but my own experience and the ever increasing number of posts I read on the internet from new vapers complaining about ringing in their ears tell me this is going to make headline news one of these days. Mark my words...

 

[Ld3441]

OP- I had no way of knowing if you had ever had a hearing test or any experience with tinnitus which is why I posted what I did. Sorry if it seemed like a stupid thing to post but not all people know this. I wish you luck in your journey and hope you find the relief you are seeking.

 

[HeadInClouds]

FWIW, this has been confirmed by my family doctor, with whom I discussed the issue: he told me that, while he had no experience with electronic cigarettes, he knows certain ear drops containing PG must never be prescribed to people with ruptured eardrums, because the PG gets into the inner ear and irritates or damages the cochlear nerve endings. When you vape PG, the eustachian tubes provide a direct route for the stuff to get to the inner ear, and he told me it didn't surprise him at all that vapers experience tinnitus.

Thanks for that. My suspicions were mostly based on anecdotal evidence, but you've pointed me in the direction to research. It also gives me hope that I might find a little relief.
I'll get busy mixing up VG versions of my favorites and aim for trial of at least a month. Man am I gonna be busy mixing!

 

[HeadInClouds]

OP- Sorry if it seemed like a stupid thing to post but not all people know this.

Hey - no offense taken at all, Ld! I appreciate it. HF Hearing loss, PG, my eye-popping caffeine habit, loud noise exposure... - I expect there are multiple factors in my case.

 

[LoveVanilla]

No tinnitus but 100% VG with 15% distilled water and 5% of saline solution works very well for me.

 

[we2rcool]

Gee, who would have thought eh?



Getting your hearing checked is a good idea. Staying clear the hell away from PG is an even better idea.

As a long-time tinnitus sufferer who experienced a sudden rise in tinnitus level a few weeks after starting vaping, I experimented with various juice compositions, and now I'm 100% certain PG caused it. It took over a month for my tinnitus to return to pre-vaping levels after I switched to pure VG, all other ingredients being the same.

FWIW, this has been confirmed by my family doctor, with whom I discussed the issue: he told me that, while he had no experience with electronic cigarettes, he knows certain ear drops containing PG must never be prescribed to people with ruptured eardrums, because the PG gets into the inner ear and irritates or damages the cochlear nerve endings. When you vape PG, the eustachian tubes provide a direct route for the stuff to get to the inner ear, and he told me it didn't surprise him at all that vapers experience tinnitus.

Me, I'm not touching PG ever again. I'm even concerned that many flavorings are diluted in PG before being mixed with a 100% VG base, because then the resulting juice isn't really 100% VG, which is why I'm getting into homemade juices.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if a few years from now, tinnitus becomes a recognized side-effect of vaping, and a major public health issue similar to cancer in smokers. Now it's very early, and there aren't enough vapers to draw conclusions for public health authorities yet, but my own experience and the ever increasing number of posts I read on the internet from new vapers complaining about ringing in their ears tell me this is going to make headline news one of these days. Mark my words...

We agree 100%. And from what we've read, the adverse effects of long-term direct inhalation will likely encompass far more than tinnitus.

 

[Aheadatime]

100% VG isn't that hard to work with. I simply add ~5% water to any recipe, which I plug into the calculator as a PG flavor, and its thin enough to vape. I never have muted flavor issues that some people speak of, and I steep everything for a week regardless of ratio, so I haven't noticed VG being difficult to work with at all. The only problem is finding 100% VG flavors that actually taste good. I've yet to find that many, so I just stick with PG and alcohol flavors. Usually the VG is at least 80%, so thats good enough for me personally.

 

[dannyv45]

- Straight VG isn't all that thick and is very vapeable without clogging things up. But I've found certain flavorings, when mixed with VG, make the resulting juice so thick it's almost unusable: the juice almost congeals to the point of not wicking up inside clearomizers, leading to burnt wicks and damaged clearos. Typically, the fruit and mint flavored juices I've tried are very fluid and vape great, while most tobacco-flavored juices are way too thick and very frustrating to vape.

Adding distilled water to the mix will help with thickness and wicking. Adding 5 - 15% is typical depending on the concentration.

 

[dannyv45]

I've had tinnitus as long as I remember - at least since I was 5 or 6. I do have high-frequency hearing loss from events back then. I just learned to live with it, not debilitating at all, noticed it only when it was quiet. Then a couple months after I started vaping, it got louder, and I noticed it more frequently. The past month or so it's really driving me up the wall, even when there's lots of background noise. I've seen enough research on PG that a test seems worthwhile. You said you know about tinnitus - you have it, too?

I've had tinnitus for at least 20 years. When I started vaping I vaped at 75pg/25vg and I did not notice my tinnitus worsening. I've since switched to 65vg/35pg and my tinnitus remains the same. So at least for me I find vaping does not effect my tinnitus. If you do notice your tinnitus is worsening you should speak to your doctor just to rule out a possible serious condition.

 

[dannyv45]

Gee, who would have thought eh?



Getting your hearing checked is a good idea. Staying clear the hell away from PG is an even better idea.

As a long-time tinnitus sufferer who experienced a sudden rise in tinnitus level a few weeks after starting vaping, I experimented with various juice compositions, and now I'm 100% certain PG caused it. It took over a month for my tinnitus to return to pre-vaping levels after I switched to pure VG, all other ingredients being the same.

FWIW, this has been confirmed by my family doctor, with whom I discussed the issue: he told me that, while he had no experience with electronic cigarettes, he knows certain ear drops containing PG must never be prescribed to people with ruptured eardrums, because the PG gets into the inner ear and irritates or damages the cochlear nerve endings. When you vape PG, the eustachian tubes provide a direct route for the stuff to get to the inner ear, and he told me it didn't surprise him at all that vapers experience tinnitus.

Me, I'm not touching PG ever again. I'm even concerned that many flavorings are diluted in PG before being mixed with a 100% VG base, because then the resulting juice isn't really 100% VG, which is why I'm getting into homemade juices.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if a few years from now, tinnitus becomes a recognized side-effect of vaping, and a major public health issue similar to cancer in smokers. Now it's very early, and there aren't enough vapers to draw conclusions for public health authorities yet, but my own experience and the ever increasing number of posts I read on the internet from new vapers complaining about ringing in their ears tell me this is going to make headline news one of these days. Mark my words...

I haven't checked out the merits of your information but if what you say is true this is very alarming. I will need to do some research on this and talk to my doctor. Thank you for the information. After reading this I'm glad I switched to 65vg/35pg.

 

[Giraut]

We agree 100%. And from what we've read, the adverse effects of long-term direct inhalation will likely encompass far more than tinnitus.

Can you elaborate, or link to relevant research studies? I'd be interested.
You ARE talking about PG here, not VG, right?