Mechanical mod confusion HELP

[Ukuleland]

I've been toying with the idea of starting to really get deep into this whole modding gig and decided to take the leap. No matter how many threads I've read through, all the steam engine calculators I've been using I'm still confused and cannot find a straight forward answer. My #1 concern is safety, I enjoy my face and would like it to remain on my body. I have a cherry bomber clone, panzer magnet upgrade, 2 efest imr18650 2500 mah 3.7v batteries, and a doge v2 rda. What is an optimal coil size range for my mod? I have an ohm reader and have no problem creating the coils, Im just not sure what a safe size would be without giving up performance. If somebody could give me a good suggestion or even point me in the right direction I would appreciate it greatly! Thank you in advance.

 

[Rsunderl]

Hi @Ukuleland and welcome to the forum.

Those Efest batteries have a CDR (Continuous Discharge Rate of 20 amps. For safety, you want to leave some headroom and not run them at the full CDR. That's because as the battery ages, the CDR drops. When thinking safety, a good rule of thumb is to leave about a 50% margin of safety.

OK, so with that in mind, the Steam Engine calculator's battery drain calculator says that a 0.4 ohm coil will leave a 48% headroom (or margin of safety) - close enough.

That's only half the story, though, because a 0.4 ohm coil will produce a hot vapor - OK if you like it that hot, but it may be a bit too hot. Wrapping a 0.8 coil around a 2mm drill bit will be 4 wraps and give you a warm (rather than hot) vape, which might be more to your liking.

When wrapping coils, it's a balancing act between wire gauge, inner diameter of coil, wicking (to keep the coil wet) and the temperature you like your vape at. Using the coil wrapping calculator, pay attention to the Heat flux and Heat capacity figures. Heat flux will be a guide to the warmth of the vapor produced while heat capacity (the lower the better) will be a gauge of the time it takes the coil to heat up given a particular power suplied to the coil.

Hope that helps, and Happy Vaping!

 

[john333]

I suggest you go to YouTube and search Grimm Green. He recently posted a vid on taking the next step to RDAs. He also has a new vid on building coils. Good luck and yeah be safe.

 

[edyle]

I've been toying with the idea of starting to really get deep into this whole modding gig and decided to take the leap. No matter how many threads I've read through, all the steam engine calculators I've been using I'm still confused and cannot find a straight forward answer. My #1 concern is safety, I enjoy my face and would like it to remain on my body. I have a cherry bomber clone, panzer magnet upgrade, 2 efest imr18650 2500 mah 3.7v batteries, and a doge v2 rda. What is an optimal coil size range for my mod? I have an ohm reader and have no problem creating the coils, Im just not sure what a safe size would be without giving up performance. If somebody could give me a good suggestion or even point me in the right direction I would appreciate it greatly! Thank you in advance.

GAUGE.

If you want to be safe, 30 gauge would be a good place to start.
that's like swimming in shallow waters.

When you go to 28 gauge it can be a big step.
That's like waist deep in the water.

After that you're in the deep end and best know how to swim.

 

[Susan~S]

For all thing "Steam Engine" (and a few others) see @State O' Flux's blogs:

1. Low resistance is a byproduct, not the goal, or... more things to hurt your head.
2. Optimizing heat flux for mech mods - chart example
3. The practical applications of heat flux, wire gauge, parallel wire count & net resistance
4. Sub-Ohm... what's the point?
5. Steam Engine: Basic & advanced features: Pts. One & Two
6. Rebuildable Atomizers - What is an RBA?
7. Micro Coils & Kanthal "Voodoo", or... why touching coils don't short out

 

[suprtrkr]

I wouldn't load those Efest batteries any higher than 10 or 12 amps. I'd say stay above .4 or so, and you should be OK on a mech. FWIW, I use mechs all the time with Sony VTC4s. I don't go any lower than .4ish, and that's with better batteries.

 

[Ukuleland]

Thanks for the good info so far everybody! It's giving me quite more to look at, but nonetheless more important things to look at. I have also been looking at a few sub-ohm tanks, is that a possibility for me? From what I've been looking at it seems like it would be ok. In particular the Atlantis or the arctic tanks, I don't believe I can go bdtc on the arctic though for sure.

 

[roxynoodle]

But, this is a dual battery mod in parallel. I believe that means he can go to 0.2 ohm on the build. Now whether you would enjoy that low or not may be another story . I'm not a huge airflow vapor so 0.4 ohm is my minimum and only with an RDA or maybe my Cthulhu tank.

 

[yuseffuhler]

But, this is a dual battery mod in parallel. I believe that means he can go to 0.2 ohm on the build. Now whether you would enjoy that low or not may be another story . I'm not a huge airflow vapor so 0.4 ohm is my minimum and only with an RDA or maybe my Cthulhu tank.

FWIW, I wouldn't trust those efest batteries at all. If you look up the sticky on the cherry bomber mod, the battery that exploded (I don't use that term lightly) was an efest. Literally the most disastrous meltdown of an IMR battery that I have heard of.

 

[roxynoodle]

Well, I have several Efests, which I believe are LGs anyway. But, I never try to push batteries to their limits. A 0.5 ohm build is 8.4A. That's about my typical dual coil build.

 

[coilburner]

I have a question about that steam engine calculator. How come it doesn't factor in watts? At least for the heat flux and capacity.
Never mind, I see that you can type in the watts

 

[Rsunderl]

Thanks for the good info so far everybody! It's giving me quite more to look at, but nonetheless more important things to look at. I have also been looking at a few sub-ohm tanks, is that a possibility for me? From what I've been looking at it seems like it would be ok. In particular the Atlantis or the arctic tanks, I don't believe I can go bdtc on the arctic though for sure.

Most sub-ohm tanks would be fine. Most of the pre-built coil heads for them are 0.5 ohm coils.

 

[Rsunderl]

But, this is a dual battery mod in parallel. I believe that means he can go to 0.2 ohm on the build. Now whether you would enjoy that low or not may be another story . I'm not a huge airflow vapor so 0.4 ohm is my minimum and only with an RDA or maybe my Cthulhu tank.

Good point - I missed that. Yes, on a dual parallel mod, I also believe that it could handle 0.2 ohms. I do get a bit confused when talking parallel vs series, though, so someone more familiar can verify or correct my assumption.

 

[Bunnykiller]

is your cherry bomber clone wood or metal?... if its metal, then you already have an issue sitting there. If the outer portion of the atty makes contact with the metal case of the mod, it will turn on and get nasty...

but other than that.... .7 ohms is the low end and 1.5 the hi end

 

[suprtrkr]

I guess the real question is how thin are you willing to slice the safety margin.

 

[JohnnyBoy44]

is your cherry bomber clone wood or metal?... if its metal, then you already have an issue sitting there. If the outer portion of the atty makes contact with the metal case of the mod, it will turn on and get nasty...

but other than that.... .7 ohms is the low end and 1.5 the hi end

Looks like metal to me.

 

[Ukuleland]

My cherry bomber is metal, but it is also powder coated in black. I heard about the problem between the rda touching the body and people accidentally bridging the two with random things like a screwdriver, tweezers, etc. and it firing from the contact. But, I've also read that if you have the powder coated ones, they won't do it. I might even plastidip mine just for safe measure.

 

[nyiddle]

I don't recommend the Cherry Bomber box mod under any circumstances.

The Cherry Bomber should not be purchased or sold. It has an inherently dangerous design. Every single one of them should be removed from the shelves and all websites. Any stores that have sold them should make a maximum effort to recall them voluntarily and replace them with a safe mech box or issue a full-refund, hopefully before the consumer product safety commission or other regulators do so. A store may end up with a significantly higher legal liability if they don't make all reasonable efforts to mitigate the potential damages.

What's specifically unsafe is that the 510 center pin is directly connected to the positive side of the batteries instead of going through a switch. The switch on it works by connecting the grounded case of the box to the threads of the 510. That's crazy, because it makes the atty body have a hot/positive voltage connected through low resistance coils. Any conductor that bridges between the metal of the atty and the case of the mech will close the circuit. So now you have to treat the whole box as if it's loose battery by keeping all conductive materials away from the atty and case or else you'll get an autofire, except that it's worse than a battery because the distance between the atty and the grounded box is very small, much smaller than on a battery, so only a small amount of metal can bridge it.

This is not the way that most mechs are designed. The 510 threads should be grounded, not floating. The switch on a top-button mech should be connecting the positive rail/post of the batteries to the 510 center post only when the button is pressed, and this is indeed how most top-button mechs are designed, except for the Cherry Bomber. The design can't easily be fixed either. The switch, 510 connector, and internal battery connections would have to be removed and replaced with a different design, and that's unlikely something that could be done by a purchaser. Bottom-button mechs have the 510 center posts connected to the positive of the battery, but the negative post of the battery isn't connected until the button is pressed - the 510 connector is grounded to the case, so bridging it with a conductor doesn't complete the circuit.

 

[Hans Wermhat]

Aside from the slightly amusing "#### ALL CLONERS" on the outside of the CB clones, there's nothing good about them. Even the powder coated ones are dangerous. If your topper can make contact with the powder coat, it will eventually rub it off negating any "protection" in that respect. It's just a bad design. In every other mech I've seen, you have to press the switch to close the circuit and fire it because the neg battery posts are insulated or separated somehow from the housing. Those things are definitely "bomb"ers.

 

[Ukuleland]

Well this one is the straw that broke the camels back I guess. Judging from all to warning posts to stay away I have almost no choice but to listen. I figured it was just people being weary about the bombers but the bad greatly outweighs the good. Anybody have any relatively cheap but good box recommendations? Now I'm on the hunt for something I won't have to worry about. I'm looking at the dimitri boxes now, or possibly a castigator although those seem to be cheaply put together clone wise. Again, thank you all for the help and I'm taking a lot of value from your advice, thanks!

Aside from the slightly amusing "#### ALL CLONERS" on the outside of the CB clones, there's nothing good about them. Even the powder coated ones are dangerous. If your topper can make contact with the powder coat, it will eventually rub it off negating any "protection" in that respect. It's just a bad design. In every other mech I've seen, you have to press the switch to close the circuit and fire it because the neg battery posts are insulated or separated somehow from the housing. Those things are definitely "bomb"ers.