Medical advice - for a moderator review

[CMD-Ky]

Recently I have noticed a rash of very new members posting about medical problems they may have. These posts are immediately answered by well intentioned (no doubt) but rather dubious advice. "I am not a doctor but..."; generally this advice is, in effect, "Don't go to the doctor yet but rather adjust this or that chemical". Advice which, if followed, will result in the delay the seeking of competent medical advice. The last I saw was a poster who thought he may have cystic acne. All kinds of suggestions were offered, all of which were time consuming to follow while observing the results; thus delaying care. Others have involved shortness of breath, heart palpitations and my memory fails me as to others but there have been many. The advice which was allowed on the forum was often potentially dangerous.

@classwife shut down the most recent saying that we cannot discuss health issues. I found this to be wise. I had not seen a "medical" thread locked before for this reason, though many should have been. Most of these threads are shut down not because they are filled with very questionable advice but rather because they have degenerated into a brawl.

It seems to me that the failure to police this dispensing of medical advice more diligently could be rather more risky than making sure that dirty words aren't used, that mean comments are deleted and that illegal substances aren't mentioned. All of these are dealt with rather quickly and summarily while dubious, potentially harmful, medical advise often remains for days.

I appreciate your time reading this.

 

[classwife]

Hi @CMD-Ky

I am glad you posted this !
It would also greatly help if members would report these threads (like they do the drug and language posts/ threads) instead of allowing them to continue until a staff member stumbles upon them.

Comparing things is very different than seeking diagnosis - no one here can do that...and I seriously doubt that an actual physician would want to put their license at a liability risk by piping in on an online forum.

 

[CMD-Ky]

I don't see physicians on here, at least, if so, they are not acting in that capacity. Only a fool would come here, proclaim themselves to be a physician and then begin to diagnose and treat. That is not the problem. Nor are thing comparisons the problem. What I have seen are serious suggestions for treatment offered by the untrained. The problem is the recommendation for treatment and those are rampant.

As you can tell, this is a bit of a peeve of mine. I will report threads, early, that request or are offering treatment recommendation.

Thank you for responding.

Hi @CMD-Ky
I am glad you posted this !
It would also greatly help if members would report these threads (like they do the drug and language posts/ threads) instead of allowing them to continue until a staff member stumbles upon them.

Comparing things is very different than seeking diagnosis - no one here can do that...and I seriously doubt that an actual physician would want to put their license at a liability risk by piping in on an online forum.

 

[CMD-Ky]

@classwife and @Robino1

I didn't realize that you all felt the same about treatment recommendations. I was under the impression that these threads were closed because they all eventually became a brawl not a discussion. It was not until I saw Classwife's post saying that we can't discuss medical issues that I felt compelled to write. I thought that I was simply being my usual surly curmudgeonly self. Next time I run across one of these I will report it without entering my usual acid reply.
Thanks

 

[sonicbomb]

Forum members should not be offering medical advice. However a significant proportion of the blame resides with the people requesting it.

 

[classwife]

Well...what I said is we can't diagnose health issues here : Quit zits or cystic acne?

It's one thing to discuss and compare symptoms and sharing knowledge of experience vs outright looking for a diagnosis.
We have a huge resource of 'normal' stop smoking symptoms, 'not so normal' and vaping concerns and solutions that members have gone through. See the Health, Safety and Vaping Forum.

The 'simple' stuff...things that are to be expected with stopping smoking.
Or say someone has diabetes or "X" and wants to compare how vaping has affected others...vs the "should I vape" or "Will vaping affect my..." question. The "should I vape" or "Will vaping affect my..." are questions only your doctor should answer for you - I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole !

Throat irritation...got a clean bill of health from your Doctor ? OK - let's work on your VG, PG and Flavoring...

Maybe some have a difficult time seeing the difference...

When an outbreak is severe enough to make one fear it's cystic acne...yea, that is serious time for the doctor stuff....but if it's 'minimal' like quit zits...that's different and expected (for some).
But I would want to be told by my Doctor first that that is all it is - then go find others that have experienced the same thing and find out what helped them.

Breathing problems or heart problems...yea - why the heck are you posting on a Forum when you should be at your Doctor...


Since you're there - it's perfect to post that they need to be contacting their physician for those cases.
I feel that should be the only response from members (along with sympathy) when someone is looking for a diagnosis.

 

[mcclintock]

I think it can be worth people asking here to see if anyone else has the same experience, especially if they resolved it. I'm not a doctor but I'm sure previous case histories are one useful source of information for them.

On the other side, doctors are not experts on vaping so the main thing WE should be asking is: is your vape working right?

 

[Chuck64]

Shortly after o started vaping I began to have difficulty breathing. Went to the hospital many times over 6 weeks. Had to sleep in recliner as I couldn't breathe at all lying flat. Finally they did a CT scan w contrast and I had multiple clots in my lungs. Turns out it runs in my family as my niece had a pulmonary embolism the same month I did.

Had I posted here about it I would have been instructed to change my pg vg ratio or something and might have died in the process.

 

[stols001]

I will say it can be hard not to respond to those posts at times. And, while I always preface anything I say with "see a doctor first" it certainly can cause a meandering and at times scary (to me) discussion when folks say anything much other than "you need to see your doctor. It may or may not be your vape, and if your doctor agrees some things you might try," but that can often generate other suggestions, etc.

I didn't know that such threads should really just be reported and closed, so I'm glad that you brought it up, @CMD-Ky ! I'd rather not respond at all, and just report the thread, because if any advice is given besides seeing a doctor, it can kind of dilute the message.

Thanks, and I now know what to do, so I appreciate you bringing it up. Because it can turn into "see a doctor" "there is no need to see a doctor, change your vape, no see a doctor" and much confusion will happen. I will be more than happy to not respond, I never feel great about saying ANYTHING. I mean, I want to be helpful, but then again, I have no way of knowing what is going on with that person and etc."

Thanks, to both classwife and CMD-ky.

Anna

 

[sonicbomb]

After the first couple of posts I read attributing the most extraordinary symptoms from sore toes on a Tuesday to migraines to vaping I stopped clicking on them. I have my suspicions that some of the many medical posts have a malicious origin in terms of generating a web based correlation been health issues and vaping.

 

[classwife]

After the first couple of posts I read attributing the most extraordinary symptoms from sore toes on a Tuesday to migraines to vaping I stopped clicking on them. I have my suspicions that some of the many medical posts have a malicious origin in terms of generating a web based correlation been health issues and vaping.

Ohhh...That's my favorite...the wonderous one poster.
Let's post something with a dramatic thread title and get it out in Google Land.

 

[Myk]

Giving the pat answer of go to the Dr doesn't cause people to go to the Dr. It causes them to go to quack websites. That is why a real Dr Google is happening. It's a new world.

I'm around a lot of chronically ill online where the questions asked dwarf anything I've seen asked here. If we ran to the Dr for every symptom or side effect we may as well live in the hospital. If we ignore the wrong one it could be deadly. So we bounce it off others.
Research Dr's help us learn the latest and greatest, we in turn take that to our Drs who probably don't have time to go to every seminar to learn the latest and greatest.
My treatment is based on online medical advice because I knew the medicine I was on was wrong for my diagnosis change and my CNS tried to argue with me because "I heard it online" until she researched herself. Online does not mean wrong and a medical degree does not mean right.

When it comes to vaping you don't need to run to the Dr because you've had one dry hit too many and you don't need to wait for a Dr to tell you to stop vaping. If vaping is the problem "go to the Dr" is the delay. I had problems breathing this weekend from a hot coil, I'd still be waiting for a Dr appointment but I'm breathing OK instead.
Of course there are instances like Chuck64's. There are also instances like mine where I just happened to have a YouTube friend mention the link between quitting smoking and him getting Ulcerative Colitis a couple months before I started down that path.

My assumption that plays out to be true with the chronic people is if it's actually an emergency they're not online asking. People are asking when the answer isn't obviously go to the Dr.
I do recall something on a crossbow forum where someone was asking/complaining, didn't get any rush to the Dr suggestions. When it became obvious he stopped posting and went, heart attack. Nothing said online made him go faster or slower (his wife may have made him go faster).

And I have had a Dr here help teach me about my disease and nicotine. If he isn't a Dr he was correct long before I found the genetics research and had it play out in my case. And what he told me goes against what many Dr's would say because of the anti-smoking propaganda drilled into them, including my own who had my experience right in front of them.

 

[CMD-Ky]

After the first couple of posts I read attributing the most extraordinary symptoms from sore toes on a Tuesday to migraines to vaping I stopped clicking on them. I have my suspicions that some of the many medical posts have a malicious origin in terms of generating a web based correlation been health issues and vaping.

And the winner is: Sonicbomb!

 

[Upinsmoke]

I think the moderators light touch on this issue is proportionate.
Having a hard and fast rule on drug talk and profanity makes perfect sense .

Smokers, and we are nearly all ex smokers or trying to become so , are addicts same as all the 12 steppers.
We spent years ignoring medical advice and in many cases staying away from doctors knowing that there was every chance he would bang on about your smoking .

So when a new member here is taking his first tentative steps away from a lifetime addiction to cigarettes and is having problems that might be perceived to be of a medical nature, it's not very helpful to immediately shut down his post with the curt "No medical questions " explanations .
Furthermore many people do not have access to good medical advice and many have to wait weeks to see a doctor .

Addicts will give themselves permission to fail . Shutting down their post will be enough for some to return to their trusted friends that come in packs of 20.

Each post should IMO be judged on its merits and closed at the moderators discretion.

I'll finish on a quote from the OP

"A degree even one with initials and a title dies not assure knowledge in all things. Although God does not consider him/her/it self to be a doctor, the reverse cannot be said."

 

[Myk]

Furthermore many people do not have access to good medical advice and many have to wait weeks to see a doctor .

I was well established in my healthcare system. CT found inflamed aorta. It took me their standard 3 months wait to get into see the Rheumatologist (why him and not a Cardiologist I'll never know), then it took another 3 months to get the results from the MRI. I could call if symptoms got worse, I was having no symptoms, their scan found it, the only symptom I know of is death in about 30 seconds if it bursts.

The only real way to speed things up in my HC system is to go to the ER and even with my presently great insurance that costs quite a bit.

 

[mackman]

My Dr. gave me this advise..."Do not read anything on the internet having to do with a medical condition".

 

[stols001]

I have found doing my research never hurts. I have many family members who come to me for advice on that stuff, and once I do it, unless it's a weird, fatal side effect possibility, I always tell my family members that I can give them the other side effects if they WANT, but really, sometimes less is more when it comes to that. It's a lot easier to "develop" a side effect if you know it's possible.

Of course, they usually ask me AFTER they talk to their doc, and have a couple options on the table. At my job, I'd always also do a "drill down" of finding out any psychiatric medication family members have taken, and their effects on that family member, and handed it t to their "to be" psychiatrist. The docs were all usually very grateful. There is tons that can be achieved without a medical degree.

But, not on a FORUM. And while I agree there may be times one wants to "offer" advice, it's really best done AFTER a person sees their doc (whether it's successful or not) at least that way major things can be ruled out. BY A DOC.

I actually think pointing that out then closing the thread is better than some monumental back and forths that I will certainly admit I've been guilty of, but usually when vapers say don't see a doc, a doc can't help, etc. I really prefer if the person gets medical advice, FROM A DOCTOR before they start all experimenting with their vape and whatnot. If they're serious about vaping they will do so and then return, etc.

Anna

 

[Myk]

My Dr. gave me this advise..."Do not read anything on the internet having to do with a medical condition".

When I got my diagnosis I was handed a pamphlet sending me to the internet.
And it wasn't even that great of information. Mostly scare stories, "I ate a tomato and it sent me to the ER." type stuff. And that was particular comment was on a video the org produced!

It's good to get other people's experience but take everything, including bonafide studies with a grain of salt.